thoughts on BJ Penn?

I wanted to post those gifs myself. Glad someone put them up. Embodies a 100% BJ Penn.

As my sig says, that knee on Sherk might be my favourite finish ever. Beats the crap out of the guy and walks off and he himself says the fight is over.
 
His LIGHTWEIGHT record is 11-3-1.
And in the opinions of most people, Penn didn't deserve to lose against Edgar in the first fight. Some people even say the first Pulver fight was wishy washy, though I don't necessarily agree with that.
 
And in the opinions of most people, Penn didn't deserve to lose against Edgar in the first fight. Some people even say the first Pulver fight was wishy washy, though I don't necessarily agree with that.

I don't mind the first Pulver fight but that draw with Uno was rather wishy washy...
 
The fact is BJ returned to lightweight, beat Sherk and held onto the title a second time but then lost twice to Frankie Edgar, an undersized lightweight himself.

He's then challenged guys he shouldn't have such as Rory Mac, and Nick Diaz and looked bad in his losses.

BJ is a legend and there is no doubt about that. But the more he takes stupid fights outside of his weight division, the more it hurts his legacy. He's probably the most iconic lightweight of all time but I doubt he'll retain that title in ten years from now.

Can't say i disagree with this
 
So we should give BJ Penn tons of props for taking fights above his weight-class where he got his ass kicked? We should celebrate his lack of preparation and training and showing up overweight and receiving a beating because he has no cardio?

I will never understand his fans, they talk him up as if he's some sort of giant killer or something. His record is terrible above lightweight, and just taking fights out of your weight class and getting destroyed shouldn't get you huge accolades.

He would have been finished in his last 3 fights straight if they were even 1 round longer.

No and I never suggested any of that. But we definitely shouldn't be discrediting his abilities as a fighter simply for losing some fights against top ranked fighters in a division above his own. Numbers on a record don't mean shit without looking at who comprised those numbers. According to your logic BJ sucks because he lost to Machida.

You are a blind hater. That much is clear.
 
And in the opinions of most people, Penn didn't deserve to lose against Edgar in the first fight. Some people even say the first Pulver fight was wishy washy, though I don't necessarily agree with that.

He is definitely the greatest LW fighter ever. in his prime nobody could touch him, it's just that he picks stupid fights against guys twice his size and he gets absolutely tooled
 
I wanted to post those gifs myself. Glad someone put them up. Embodies a 100% BJ Penn.

As my sig says, that knee on Sherk might be my favourite finish ever. Beats the crap out of the guy and walks off and he himself says the fight is over.

BTW, I love your SIG. Penn's win over Sherk was pretty good, Stevenson and Diego was pretty good too
 
BTW, I love your SIG. Penn's win over Sherk was pretty good, Stevenson and Diego was pretty good too
You got it brother. Penn as 155 champ was an insane run of domination victories. And you're right, Penn made his own misery in fighting guys he had no business fighting. I respect his desire to beat everyone, but it hurt him in the long run.
 
And in the opinions of most people, Penn didn't deserve to lose against Edgar in the first fight. Some people even say the first Pulver fight was wishy washy, though I don't necessarily agree with that.

Yup, but the haters will probably brush that off and use that to slight BJ fans. Yet some of those same haters will argue Frankie should've won against Benson both times, ha. Yeah I agree the Pulver fight wasn't wishy washy, but if I recall correctly BJ had the armbar on Pulver at one point at the bell and he tapped, but it was too close to call so the fight went on. The Uno draw was bullshit though. I mean that post fight conference pic will always stick out in my mind to say who the true winner was lol.
 
He will lose for the 3rd time against Edgar and he will retire for good.

He is a legend but the sport evolved and he was left behind. I don
 
Yup, but the haters will probably brush that off and use that to slight BJ fans. Yet some of those same haters will argue Frankie should've won against Benson both times, ha. Yeah I agree the Pulver fight wasn't wishy washy, but if I recall correctly BJ had the armbar on Pulver at one point at the bell and he tapped, but it was too close to call so the fight went on. The Uno draw was bullshit though. I mean that post fight conference pic will always stick out in my mind to say who the true winner was lol.
Yeah that armbar I remember! Totally the Uno draw was bullshit, I again, can't believe it skipped my mind to mention it. BJ gets a lot of haters, it must have come from the result of his second GSP fight or something...
 
He's one of the most talented fighters in the sport and I also like/respect his fighting spirit.

I won't look down on him for getting his ass kicked to bigger fighters that he probably shouldn't have fought. It's just a shame that he was kind of lazy when it came to training.
 
I agree with the article's general themes. However, I think the big thing that hurts BJ from the GOAT conversation is his career long insistence on fighting guys much bigger and stronger than him. This led to a mediocre looking overall win-loss record. Had BJ fought within his natural weightclass we are likely only looking at 3-4 losses instead of 9 Losses and 2 Draws.

People much more knowledgeable than I who have trained and fought BJ all say the same thing, single most talented guy they ever encountered.
 
I think he might be the most naturally talented fighter in the world. This is echoed by the words of people like Anderson Silva, whether this claim has any weight to it, that say that BJ is the best fighter ever. I think he is the greatest 155lber ever to date. I don't necessarily think he's the best mixed martial artist of all time but he is, in my opinion, in that lofty altitude.
 
If he is so talented, why did he lost so much? Why did other fighters do moreand better things than him?

How do you know how hard he trained?

I never understood why he was labeled as "so talented" moreso than other fighters that were better than him. Ufc hype machine I guess

BJ is the best LW ever IMO. Unfortunately he fought out of his natural weight class way too often. His talent is undeniable.
 
You seriously don't think BJ is talented? He's the first American to ever win the Mundials right after receiving his black belt (from Nova Uniao no less) after 3.5 years. You do realize the average person takes like 8 years to do the same thing right, let alone win a world championship? Top that off with all the ungodly athletic feats he can do from scratching his ear with his foot, pulling off a jailbreak only using his legs, the 3 foot pool jump, going airborne from a double leg but still stuffing the TD, stuffing an entire first round of TDs as a fat 165er from one of the p4p greats in GSP when no other WW has been able to do so. Sorry but your average fighter can't even pull off one of those things.

You also can't extrapolate any of that shit from just looking at a record, which is the basis of your argument. Is he a bit overrated? Yes. But even the most delusional haters like TonyCPA can't even say BJ was just average on the talent department; not unless they're misinformed. I also don't understand how you think BJ did anything but not train hard. As much as it pains me to say as a huge BJ fan, were you not around to see Penn-GSP II primetime? Lifting rocks, surfing, Dana even calling him out on the show. Burrito Penn? Sorry but you sound like you're misinformed and though I'm being a bit presumptuous, I think your joindate confirms that.

I never said he wasn't talented. I said he gets credit for being SO much more talented then everyone when others have done better than him but Don't get deemed "so talented"

Being the first AMERICAN to do something doesn't make you anymore talented than all the others that have done it. 3.5 years is a long time. Humans can learn anything in that time. And getting a black belt fast doesn't mean much since it is just given to you.

Again i like Penn. He is just overrated and his fans think he is just some super natural born human, and only lost cuz he "didn't train hard".
 
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