thoughts on BJ Penn?

Beating Hughes was huge. But it was ONE fight, that's it. Doesn't make you a true champion. And who did he beat to get the lw title again? Stevenson and Pulver? Again, nothing legendary.

I Don't hate him. I actually like him. I like his "let's just fight" attitude. I just know he is overrated and his fans are the worst.

shrug. don't feel like giving a history lesson now. but the fact you think his career from 2001-2009 had 1 good win, says enough.

he was never as good as GSP. that's where his biggest fans get lost. know what? most people aren't. "not as good as GSP" is a very, very, very big umbrella.
 
The fact is BJ returned to lightweight, beat Sherk and held onto the title a second time but then lost twice to Frankie Edgar, an undersized lightweight himself.

He's then challenged guys he shouldn't have such as Rory Mac, and Nick Diaz and looked bad in his losses.

BJ is a legend and there is no doubt about that. But the more he takes stupid fights outside of his weight division, the more it hurts his legacy. He's probably the most iconic lightweight of all time but I doubt he'll retain that title in ten years from now.

I love the way he wants to test himself against bigger guys.
But when you reach a certain age, it's probably better if you stop doing it.
It's clear he "hurt" his legacy, but I have nothing but respect for someone that fights anyone, anywhere.
 
shrug. don't feel like giving a history lesson now. but the fact you think his career from 2001-2009 had 1 good win, says enough.

he was never as good as GSP. that's where his biggest fans get lost. know what? most people aren't. "not as good as GSP" is a very, very, very big umbrella.


Maybe you should read up on the conversation if you wanna chime in.

Gsp has nothing to do with this conversation
 
I think his standup is slightly overrated. He should take a cue from Maia and start focusing more on his wrestling and submissions.

He has good standup, but I'd have to agree he relies too much on that. His ground game is fenomenal, he really should use it more. Nowadays, he seems happy to just try and beat the other guy standing, even when he has a clear disadvantage.
 
Maybe you should read up on the conversation if you wanna chime in.

Gsp has nothing to do with this conversation

you brought up his fans. "I just know he is overrated and his fans are the worst." i'm just saying that's where his fans lose perspective.

it's like this. some think BJ was a great fighter for 8+ years. let's draw a line and put those people in the middle. you can even call that dot "SFF". now put people who think he was the BEST FIGHTER EVA far to the right of that first dot. those people think he was better than GSP. they are the fans you hate. now put people like you who think he had ONE GOOD WIN on the far left of that dot.

that's the spectrum. just because some fans get overzealous doesn't mean you HAVE TO go to the other extreme. if someone calls luke warm water "boiling hot", you don't have to counter with "nu uh, it's ICE COLD!!!" you can just recognize that it's luke warm.

i invite you to the middle, sir. to call the luke warm water luke warm. he wasn't the best eva, and he didn't have "one good win".
 
never liked him, dont think he was ever the LW goat. even "motivated penn" would lose to a lot of the top 10 guys now.
 
Regardless of how you feel about certain fighters, I believe that as a fan of MMA you should respect them and acknowledge what they've done. I personally don't care for Penn as a person, but he was a great fighter and fought the best in the world in 2 weight classes.

I just hate seeing fighters go from being "unbeatable" and "GOAT" to being over-rated pieces of trash by fair weather MMA fans. It happens to all the best fighters. Fedor, Anderson, etc. I really hope that at some point fans realize that this is just part of the sport, and no one stays on top forever. That does NOT mean that they were not great.

Wishful thinking I guess.

Here are some BJ Penn gifs:

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1etj7t.jpg
 
you brought up his fans. "I just know he is overrated and his fans are the worst." i'm just saying that's where his fans lose perspective.

it's like this. some think BJ was a great fighter for 8+ years. let's draw a line and put those people in the middle. you can even call that dot "SFF". now put people who think he was the BEST FIGHTER EVA far to the right of that first dot. those people think he was better than GSP. they are the fans you hate. now put people like you who think he had ONE GOOD WIN on the far left of that dot.

that's the spectrum. just because some fans get overzealous doesn't mean you HAVE TO go to the other extreme. if someone calls luke warm water "boiling hot", you don't have to counter with "nu uh, it's ICE COLD!!!" you can just recognize that it's luke warm.

i invite you to the middle, sir. to call the luke warm water luke warm. he wasn't the best eva, and he didn't have "one good win".

Again, I never said he only had one good win and I like the guy. I was discrediting the idea that being a two division champ doesn't automatically make him top 10 all time. I think he had 2-3 great wins, and like 5-6 good wins. He looked dominant when he was winning. I'm not saying he isn't top 30 all time, but he definitely isn't top 10
 
One of the most overrated of all time. He only has 1 win in his last 6 fights over a 4 year span. And that win was over a 40 year old, washed up, chin-shot Matt Hughes. He's been nothing but a walking punching bag the last few fights and is starting to venture into Tito Ortiz territory with his record.
 
One of the most overrated of all time. He only has 1 win in the last 4 years, and that was over a 40 year old, washed up, chin-shot Matt Hughes. He's been nothing but a walking punching bag the last few fights. He is starting to venture into Tito Ortiz territory with his record.


Everyone knows he shouldn't have been fighting at WW. His only losses at LW are to Pulver which he avenged, and Frankie Edgar. I have my suspicions that GSP wouldn't look quite as impressive at MW, but that's just my opinion. I respect Penn for fighting at a higher weight class, but it obviously wasn't the best choice for his career. There is a reason why championship level fighters don't want to move up in weight.

He is something like 12-3-1 at LW & he is 3-5-1 at WW, with two of his 3 wins coming against Hughes...
 
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very talented, tough guy, and a true warrior. the fact that he's fought in so many different weightclasses, and fought people like Lyoto Machida at 200+lbs, deserves much respect. however, he is indeed past his prime, and cannot hang with elite competition anymore. there was a time when he was at the top, but those days are gone and the competition's gotten much tougher. it's not so much about his motivation (like he wasn't really trying?), it was more about the top competition outclassing him in the past couple of years. the fact that he's hung around is a testament to his toughness, but he's stayed around too long. his record is by no means deserving of GOAT talks, but the schedule he faced was tough. he didn't always win - he got beat down severely in his past several fights, completely outclassed, but again that's because he stepped up to the plate against tough and talented fighters.

perhaps BJ bit off more than he could chew, and his own gameness is the very thing which made him legendary, but at the same time, the very thing which probably led to him not faring so consistently throughout his career. a very storied career, and deserving of much respect, but not worthy of GOAT talks.
 
Big fucking deal. It isn't that big of an accomplishment when you're just given title shots left and right. Especially during his time.

He's not even close to top ten

So you're saying Couture is a joke also?>
 
Not sure why everyone is telling BJ to hang em up. Frankie isn't a power puncher and BJ has never been knocked down. It's not like that one more fight is putting him at risk of suffering brain damage like Chuck. Depending on his motivation/work ethic, he could have another run at a title either 145 or 155. Not saying he will win the belt but could possibly earny a title shot or a title contender shot.
 
BJ is super talented, but a poor winner and a poor loser. With so many gifts, he doesn't continue to put in the hard work.

All this makes a great heel for me.
 

Again, read up on the conversation if you want to chime in. I was replying to a guy who said he was an automatic legend and top ten all time due to being a two division champ. He became champ at ww for one win. Basically at lw too
 
How do you guys think BJ Penn with treat Frankie on the show?

Will he be as disrespectful towards him as he was Pulver? I'll dislike him either way tbh.

Penn basically trolled Pulver during the entire show, and the fight. Pulver was class the entire time.

If he doesn't, he acted like a bully because he could have.

If he does, he will come off like a dick, without a legion of nut huggers to protect him this time, and will probably lose too.

I don't know how this show will help BJ's legacy.
 
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