Media This happened 17 years ago...what when through your mind after witnessing it?

[BJJ4Tone]

To be honest I’m more upset to learn that this was 17 years ago than I was to see it happen

SAME!
Let's both remember to take our baby aspirin today...

 

[BJJ4Tone]

Fucking fantastic.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I remember watching the PPV live. Chuck didn't look the best in his rematch with Tito, which had me a little worried that he was coasting and sort of checking out, but I just chalked that up to him knowing that he had Tito's number. Rematching Rampage, I was expecting the lean and mean Chuck that iced Couture at UFC 52. But that wasn't the case. Added to which, this was the fight where I realized that Chuck's chin was gone, which meant that he was done, because so much of his style was about taking a shot to give a shot and being able to take his opponents' best shots while they couldn't take his. In their first fight, Rampage hit him with absolute sledgehammers and Chuck took every single one of them, yet here in the rematch, Rampage hit him with a lunging shot that just clipped him and he was out. Sad to see the end of the Iceman Era, but I consider myself lucky to have been there for the ride.



By calling out the TS and making clear that you couldn't recognize the fight and the fighters by just the image, you're making yourself look much worse than the TS.





Nobody expected a first-round, one-shot KO. Chuck's chin was legendary. He only lost to Rampage the first time because he gassed, as his conditioning was sometimes a liability. Rampage straight up outworked him. I knew that Rampage had an iron chin, so I wasn't expecting Chuck to KO him, but I also knew that Chuck had an iron chin, so I wasn't expecting Rampage to KO him. Either one of them dropping from one shot in a couple of minutes wasn't even a consideration for me. To then see it happen was insane.

I was posting all the way leading up to the fight that if Chuck came into the fight in the shape that he was in for UFC 52, and if he didn't try to brawl with Rampage, he'd win by picking him apart on the outside. But to execute that game plan, he needed to have a chin, because Rampage was going to hit him, just like the first fight. Except by the second fight, Chuck's chin was gone



He also didn't look that great against Eastman. I definitely wasn't expecting him to turn that corner the way that he did and become champ. But he got up for that Chuck rematch just like he did for Wand III. He was laser focused for those fights and I think that those were his two best post-PRIDE performances.



Well, once he became champ, Chuck's mission became to avenge his losses. He got to avenge his loss to Randy at UFC 43 and take the belt from him at UFC 52, then his first title defense was against Jeremy Horn so that he could avenge his early loss at UFC 19 to him, and that just left Rampage. It's a credit to Chuck that he wanted that rematch, because Rampage was physically and stylistically his kryptonite. But Chuck was such an intense competitor, he had to get that rematch. And then after losing to Rampage, Chuck still went out there against the young lions of his day and still took on people like Wand and Shogun, who in his chinny state were dreadful match-ups for him. He was able to get that long-sought-after win against Wand, but Jardine dropped him, Rashad iced him, Shogun iced him, hell even Franklin iced him. In his earlier days, Chuck would've eaten all of their best shots for lunch and barely even noticed them. "Favorite" doesn't really matter if you don't have a chin.



Back then, there weren't 9382746293 people on the roster to fill 8 cards a month with 17 fights between fighters nobody's heard of. Back then, you had 6-10 fights across the small handful of divisions between people everybody knew because the roster was very small. In fact, the cards around 2006-2008 were the first time that cards started to get a little weak because that was the mainstream boom time when Dana and Co. first started to try to stretch their booking legs and started having events once a month, sometimes even twice a month. Prior to that, events were insanely stacked because events would only happen every other month if that. Look at UFCs 31-39, those are unfairly amazing events full of champs, legends, and HOFers without a single bad fight in the bunch, because they happened so infrequently that every event felt like a best of. How I miss those days...

I didn't expect it would be so effortless, but I certainly expected more of the same, and wasn't really surprised. Chuck looked like he'd just left a beer buffet when he got to the cage, and threw one leg kick early before abandoning the game plan for a second time. Rampage was much more patient in the second fight than in the first, but it was ultimately the same right hook he'd landed over and over in the first fight that did Chuck in, although with much better form than in the first.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Only casuals were surprised. Rampage already smashed Liddell in Pride back when UFC was the Bellator of this shit. Rampage beat the shit out of Chuck so badly that Chucks corner had to throw the towel in. Dana was commentating ringside with that dumb, shit eating grin on his face. It was beautiful.

 

[Bullitt68]

Again though you look back at those fights post Rampage loss and Chuck was I believe the favourite in all of them

I know, but that was when people were still expecting Chuck to be The Iceman. He'd just had the belt around his waist. Of course he was going to be the favorite. That tells us next to nothing.

Jardine had just been blasted by Huston

Against Jardine, he was obviously meant to rebound quickly and strongly, but Chuck was a legendary sprawl-and-brawler. If Dana really wanted to feed him an easy win, an unorthodox kickboxer wasn't the way to go. A wrestler with shitty striking is the tomato can that Chuck should've been served if that was Dana's "master plan." But Chuck's Chuck, he wanted a tough fight every time, which is why his resume is a who's who of the sport's history. He would've chewed up and spit out a Mike Whitehead, or a Jason Lambert, or an Eric Schafer. Jardine was a dangerous rebound fight for him purely on paper -- then add to that the fact that Jardine knew that he was stepping into the cage with the fucking Iceman for the fight of his life and he stepped up and turned in his career-best performance.

Wand was coming off of massive KO loses to Crocop and Hendo

So? Chuck was coming off of two losses, too, and he got dropped in both fights. Regardless, Wand was still the fucking Axe Murderer, and with Chuck looking chinny, Wand windmilling his chin off of his face with his haymakers was an obvious possibility. And let's not forget that Wand would go on to Axe Murder Jardine and beat up Bisping, Cung Le, and Brian Stann. He still had plenty of fight left in his tank, even if his superhuman recovery ability was no longer there the same that Chuck's iron chin was no longer made of iron.

Rashad had looked not very impressive and many felt had lost to Bisping

Same with Jardine: You've got a hungry young lion stepping up to the plate for what they know is the biggest fight of their life, plus Rashad did to Chuck what Gonzaga did to Cro Cop and showed him skills that nobody knew he had, namely the ability to throw hands like that and turn his lights out with a punch.

Shogun looked out og sorts vs Coleman and many felt he was crocked after the ACL injuries

Everyone expected some ring rust after the surgery and layoff, so of course he didn't look like the MWGP destroyer against Coleman. The Chuck fight was his coming (back) out party and then he went on to beat Machida twice looking as good as he'd ever look.

Franklin was a stand in after another Tito fight fell though.

And Chuck took the fight because he was a warrior. Tito couldn't strike his way out of a paperback while Franklin was an excellent kickboxer. Chuck was in little to no danger against Tito, even at that point in his career, but against Franklin, his chin was going to get tested, and we saw what happened.

Dana was repeatedly trying to set up matches against names in questionable forum

This is just plain wrong. You're acting like everyone and their mother knew every time out that Chuck was going for a walk in the park and then somehow got blindsided. He didn't get a single gimme fight, every opponent of his had legit talent and a legit chance to beat him, and since his chin was gone, they all save for Wand did beat him.

Most of Chucks title run was actually spent rematching guys he'd already beaten in Randy, Babalu and Tito.

That's because (a) Randy was the best LHW in the UFC and he'd beaten Chuck once before so they had the trilogy, (b) Tito was the next best LHW in the UFC so they had the rematch, and (c) Babalu had put together a 3-0 run in the UFC since losing to Chuck and a 10-0 run including outside victories over Shogun, Jeremy Horn, and Pele. Again, none of Chuck's fights were gimme fights. He was fighting and beating the UFCs top dogs, and then after he lost his belt he continued to fight some of the best guys in the organization, even beyond the point when he could actually hang with them.

I didn't expect it would be so effortless, but I certainly expected more of the same, and wasn't really surprised.

You weren't surprised that a guy who'd never been knocked out before and who had one of the most legendary chins ever was knocked out with one lunging hook the first time that he got touched two minutes into the first round? This isn't about who you expected/wanted to win, this is just what we knew about both before they stepped into that cage. Both guys had legendary domes, but between the two of them, we'd at least seen Rampage go out before. In their first fight, Rampage hit Chuck with everything he had PLUS the kitchen sink and he couldn't put a dent in his chin.

 

[TITS]

In question form. You shouldn't have had to ask. You definitely shouldn't have had to whine. But keep going like this and you'll be on a shiny new account by 2025

Okay, my replies were a little harsh, but knowing full well someone would pull the 'noob' card on me, I literally named the two fighters in the (poor quality) photo so no one else had to ask. There are some people here that don't remember fights from 2007.

 

[TITS]

Nah, it was a little much, just like Masvidal's follow-up strikes.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I know, but that was when people were still expecting Chuck to be The Iceman. He'd just had the belt around his waist. Of course he was going to be the favorite. That tells us next to nothing.



Against Jardine, he was obviously meant to rebound quickly and strongly, but Chuck was a legendary sprawl-and-brawler. If Dana really wanted to feed him an easy win, an unorthodox kickboxer wasn't the way to go. A wrestler with shitty striking is the tomato can that Chuck should've been served if that was Dana's "master plan." But Chuck's Chuck, he wanted a tough fight every time, which is why his resume is a who's who of the sport's history. He would've chewed up and spit out a Mike Whitehead, or a Jason Lambert, or an Eric Schafer. Jardine was a dangerous rebound fight for him purely on paper -- then add to that the fact that Jardine knew that he was stepping into the cage with the fucking Iceman for the fight of his life and he stepped up and turned in his career-best performance.



So? Chuck was coming off of two losses, too, and he got dropped in both fights. Regardless, Wand was still the fucking Axe Murderer, and with Chuck looking chinny, Wand windmilling his chin off of his face with his haymakers was an obvious possibility. And let's not forget that Wand would go on to Axe Murder Jardine and beat up Bisping, Cung Le, and Brian Stann. He still had plenty of fight left in his tank, even if his superhuman recovery ability was no longer there the same that Chuck's iron chin was no longer made of iron.



Same with Jardine: You've got a hungry young lion stepping up to the plate for what they know is the biggest fight of their life, plus Rashad did to Chuck what Gonzaga did to Cro Cop and showed him skills that nobody knew he had, namely the ability to throw hands like that and turn his lights out with a punch.



Everyone expected some ring rust after the surgery and layoff, so of course he didn't look like the MWGP destroyer against Coleman. The Chuck fight was his coming (back) out party and then he went on to beat Machida twice looking as good as he'd ever look.



And Chuck took the fight because he was a warrior. Tito couldn't strike his way out of a paperback while Franklin was an excellent kickboxer. Chuck was in little to no danger against Tito, even at that point in his career, but against Franklin, his chin was going to get tested, and we saw what happened.



This is just plain wrong. You're acting like everyone and their mother knew every time out that Chuck was going for a walk in the park and then somehow got blindsided. He didn't get a single gimme fight, every opponent of his had legit talent and a legit chance to beat him, and since his chin was gone, they all save for Wand did beat him.



That's because (a) Randy was the best LHW in the UFC and he'd beaten Chuck once before so they had the trilogy, (b) Tito was the next best LHW in the UFC so they had the rematch, and (c) Babalu had put together a 3-0 run in the UFC since losing to Chuck and a 10-0 run including outside victories over Shogun, Jeremy Horn, and Pele. Again, none of Chuck's fights were gimme fights. He was fighting and beating the UFCs top dogs, and then after he lost his belt he continued to fight some of the best guys in the organization, even beyond the point when he could actually hang with them.

You weren't surprised that a guy who'd never been knocked out before and who had one of the most legendary chins ever was knocked out with one lunging hook the first time that he got touched two minutes into the first round? This isn't about who you expected/wanted to win, this is just what we knew about both before they stepped into that cage. Both guys had legendary domes, but between the two of them, we'd at least seen Rampage go out before. In their first fight, Rampage hit Chuck with everything he had PLUS the kitchen sink and he couldn't put a dent in his chin.

Um, not really. Chuck got hit with power shots repeatedly in their first fight, was stunned more than once, and he wasn't immortal. He was also fat and didn't train or take his fights very seriously, and this was like four or five years after the first fight. Everyone succumbs eventually, bud.

 

[Bullitt68]

Okay, my replies were a little harsh, but knowing full well someone would pull the 'noob' card on me, I literally named the two fighters in the (poor quality) photo so no one else had to ask. There are some people here that don't remember fights from 2007.

You came out hard when you didn't need to, so you got hit hard. You get what you give. But I appreciate the deescalation.

 

[TITS]

You came out hard when you didn't need to, so you got hit hard. You get what you give. But I appreciate the deescalation.

I'm just cranky there's no UFC this weekend.

 

[Bullitt68]

Um, not really.

Um, yes really.



That's Chuck getting full on kicked in the head and not even blinking.



He also got dropped by a HK from Pele and gets up right away looking at Pele like, "Why'd you stop fighting?" Chuck's chin was legendary. Either you didn't know that or you forgot it, but anybody who wasn't surprised to see Chuck go down like that didn't know enough to be surprised.

Chuck got hit with power shots repeatedly in their first fight

I know. That's my point. Rampage went at him with everything he had and he only won because Chuck gassed and couldn't stand anymore. And Rampage was smart and knew this, which is why he switched from headhunting to attacking the body.

was stunned more than once

He was never rocked, though. He took big shots but he only started to fade once he gassed. His chin held up all the way through, which, again, is why Rampage changed tactics and started going to the body: Because he knew that he'd never put Chuck away to the head, but he could finish him to the body.

He was also fat and didn't train or take his fights very seriously

This has nothing to do with his chin.

Everyone succumbs eventually, bud.

I know. I've been following the sport a long time. I've seen it happen a lot. My point is that in May of 2007, Chuck had never succumbed to anything from anyone ever. To just shrug off him getting iced with one loopy punch in two minutes the first time his chin was touched is evidence of ignorance, insanity, or a bad memory. I mean, were you also not surprised to see Mark Hunt get knocked out by Melvin Manhoef after eating otherworldly bombs from HWs like Jerome LeBanner and Cro Cop? Or how about Nogueira getting knocked out by Frank Mir, was that easy to see coming from a mile away after he walked through the best that Fedor and Cro Cop had to throw at him? Don't do the hindsight thing. At least admit that nobody who knew Chuck was expecting him to get knocked out cold in the first round. Everybody at the time was picking Chuck to win in the first or second or for Rampage to win late. Hell, even Rampage was shocked that Chuck went out so fast like that.

I'm just cranky there's no UFC this weekend.

Haha, and in fairness, venting your frustration on the Internet is better than on friends or roommates...

 

[Crash-override]

View attachment 1045137

Can't believe that was 17 yrs ago damn time flies by.

It's crazy to think I've watched my entire generation of fighters come up and become contenders and champions and now they are all retiring.

Chuck and page and tito Hendon wand those were the guys my generation watched and got us into the sport.

Sorry for the rant, that whole 17 yrs ago thing really made me feel old.

I remember going into this fight as bad as page beat him in pride it was gonna be a repeat.

Ufc was pushing it as chucks revenge tour and he was gonna add another body on his hit list.

Little did everyone know this was the beginning of the end for the iceman.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

I always rooted against Chuck. I was a fan of Randy, so my early 20’s brain didn’t appreciate what Chuck was doing. I was happy to see Shad and Page KO him. In hindsight, Chuck was amazing and I appreciate what he brought to the sport. In his prime, he had an iron chin, KO power, and excellent TDD. As a thought experiment, I’d love to see him vs some modern LHWs. Jiri comes to mind.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Um, yes really.



That's Chuck getting full on kicked in the head and not even blinking.



He also got dropped by a HK from Pele and gets up right away looking at Pele like, "Why'd you stop fighting?" Chuck's chin was legendary. Either you didn't know that or you forgot it, but anybody who wasn't surprised to see Chuck go down like that didn't know enough to be surprised.



I know. That's my point. Rampage went at him with everything he had and he only won because Chuck gassed and couldn't stand anymore. And Rampage was smart and knew this, which is why he switched from headhunting to attacking the body.



He was never rocked, though. He took big shots but he only started to fade once he gassed. His chin held up all the way through, which, again, is why Rampage changed tactics and started going to the body: Because he knew that he'd never put Chuck away to the head, but he could finish him to the body.



This has nothing to do with his chin.



I know. I've been following the sport a long time. I've seen it happen a lot. My point is that in May of 2007, Chuck had never succumbed to anything from anyone ever. To just shrug off him getting iced with one loopy punch in two minutes the first time his chin was touched is evidence of ignorance, insanity, or a bad memory. I mean, were you also not surprised to see Mark Hunt get knocked out by Melvin Manhoef after eating otherworldly bombs from HWs like Jerome LeBanner and Cro Cop? Or how about Nogueira getting knocked out by Frank Mir, was that easy to see coming from a mile away after he walked through the best that Fedor and Cro Cop had to throw at him? Don't do the hindsight thing. At least admit that nobody who knew Chuck was expecting him to get knocked out cold in the first round. Everybody at the time was picking Chuck to win in the first or second or for Rampage to win late. Hell, even Rampage was shocked that Chuck went out so fast like that.



Haha, and in fairness, venting your frustration on the Internet is better than on friends or roommates...

You just like to argue, bud. I usually disregard it when you quote me, which I basically roll my eyes every time, but I try to give you the benefit of the doubt. Yes, after years of taking bombs to the chin, it wasn't farfetched that a power puncher like Rampage would knock Chuck out. Sorry that bums you out. Acceptance is the first step.

 

[Neck&Neck]

Probably something like:

“time to grab another beer”

 

[PlayTheGame]

Such a beautiful KO, absolutely love it. Definitely in my personal top-10.

 

[Bullitt68]

You just like to argue, bud.

Actually, I like to teach. It's what I do for a living, and I chose it for a living because it's come naturally to me my entire life. What you see as me arguing is actually me trying to inform people, asking them to consider information they may not have had or maybe misunderstood, etc. I'm pedantic, which means, by necessity, I end up in arguments. That's a necessary evil to providing information, and a cost that I'm willing to pay to provide new information/perspectives on things.

Yes, after years of taking bombs to the chin, it wasn't farfetched that a power puncher like Rampage would knock Chuck out.

Were you following the sport in 2007? Did you watch Chuck's career and know that he had an iron chin? Did you predict or even expect Chuck to lose by one-punch first-round KO? Google people talking about the fight in the lead up to it and you'll find everyone predicting Rampage late after he outworks and gasses Chuck just like the first fight. Nobody - including, I stress, Rampage himself - expected Chuck to lose in a one-punch first-round KO.

Sorry that bums you out. Acceptance is the first step.

Trust me, I accepted many years ago that people's opinions are more often than not uninformed, and that it's the rare mature person who's willing to consider new information, or reconsider old information, and allow for the possibility of changing their mind or admitting that they spoke carelessly. But periodically, I come in here to see if I can find any mature diamonds in the immature rough of MMA fandom

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Actually, I like to teach. It's what I do for a living, and I chose it for a living because it's come naturally to me my entire life. What you see as me arguing is actually me trying to inform people, asking them to consider information they may not have had or maybe misunderstood, etc. I'm pedantic, which means, by necessity, I end up in arguments. That's a necessary evil to providing information, and a cost that I'm willing to pay to provide new information/perspectives on things.



Were you following the sport in 2007? Did you watch Chuck's career and know that he had an iron chin? Did you predict or even expect Chuck to lose by one-punch first-round KO? Google people talking about the fight in the lead up to it and you'll find everyone predicting Rampage late after he outworks and gasses Chuck just like the first fight. Nobody - including, I stress, Rampage himself - expected Chuck to lose in a one-punch first-round KO.



Trust me, I accepted many years ago that people's opinions are more often than not uninformed, and that it's the rare mature person who's willing to consider new information, or reconsider old information, and allow for the possibility of changing their mind or admitting that they spoke carelessly. But periodically, I come in here to see if I can find any mature diamonds in the immature rough of MMA fandom

Bud, these walls of text are exactly why I don't fuck with you. I admire that you're willing to go to bat over your opinions, it's just that they're usually wrong. As in this case, where I expected Chuck to go night night.

 

[Khaosan]

To be honest I’m more upset to learn that this was 17 years ago than I was to see it happen

This ^^^

Was telling my casual friends Chuck was going to get steamrolled and no one believed me.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

This ^^^

Was telling my casual friends Chuck was going to get steamrolled and no one believed me.

Wall of text from Bullitt, incoming. I, for one, believe you, though.