There really is no solid evidence of the supernatural, is there ?

[Deleted member 429137]

I'm curious if you think there are people who were there that day who would say it probably wasn't a demonic possession.

(I never emboldened that to be confrontational; I just don't know if you're going to read my entire post and that is something that I am really curious about.)

Maybe the worst of us

Well, if you are indeed the best of us your perceptions are merely heinously unreliable. It is an absolute certainty that if I interviewed everyone in the room that day the stories would be wildly different, but maybe the majority of people could agree on the broad strokes.

I imagine everyone would agree that a woman fainted. Some would be unsure if she walked in or had been there for awhile, some would say they saw her walk in when they probably didn't. Some would probably say they didn't smell sulfur. There would be huge discrepencies between accounts when I asked what she was wearing and if she was carrying anything. When I started asking about whether or not there was any construction to the church or any sewer problems, most people wouldn't know.

A quick google search reveals that the random, inexplicable smell of sulfur is common in cities, so I would have to check with neighbours to see if they remember any sulfur smells or with the city to see if they got any complaints at that time. https://www.google.ca/search?q=peop...x-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=0QmqWfnTGePj8AfjvZHADw

Maybe you are correct that it was a demonic possession. I think that should be the very last conclusion.

 

[DataBreach]

I'm curious if you think there are people who were there that day who would say it probably wasn't a demonic possession.

(I never emboldened that to be confrontational; I just don't know if you're going to read my entire post and that is something that I am really curious about.)



Well, if you are indeed the best of us your perceptions are merely heinously unreliable. It is an absolute certainty that if I interviewed everyone in the room that day the stories would be wildly different, but maybe the majority of people could agree on the broad strokes.

I imagine everyone would agree that a woman fainted. Some would be unsure if she walked in or had been there for awhile, some would say they saw her walk in when they probably didn't. Some would probably say they didn't smell sulfur. There would be huge discrepencies between accounts when I asked what she was wearing and if she was carrying anything. When I started asking about whether or not there was any construction to the church or any sewer problems, most people wouldn't know.

A quick google search reveals that the random, inexplicable smell of sulfur is common in cities, so I would have to check with neighbours to see if they remember any sulfur smells or with the city to see if they got any complaints at that time. https://www.google.ca/search?q=peop...x-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=0QmqWfnTGePj8AfjvZHADw

Maybe you are correct that it was a demonic possession. I think that should be the very last conclusion.

I left church early but the woman testified she was a witch and she was born into a family of witches. I can't say that is true because I left but I was told this.

It was a praying and fasting church. It was very common to have people walk in off the street and get delivered. So I assume most of the people there (maybe 75) would say she was demon possessed. In fact, when the lady cried out and was laid out on the floor someone grabbed a prayer cloth and placed it over her body. So that lady knew exactly what happened. Everyone in that room who knew the Bible knew what happened.

Had you been in the room you wouldn't have surveyed everyone. You would have ran for the lobby because the smell of sulfur in the air was putrid.

 

[Don Quixote]

What about EVP's? I'd say those are defiantly not really natural.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Well, assuming that what you're saying is true and that you're not lying (probably the number one cause of superstitious phenomena):

My first guess is unlikely if this wasn't an organized event.

My second guess is still possible.

What was she dressed like? A homeless person? A professional? Was anyone else in the church?

She, other people or the building itself could have provided a sulfurous odour.

This is literally science going on right now. I had a hypothesis and am revising it with additional information. In a clinical setting, if I could not come up with a hypothesis that fit all the facts then I would have to abandon my hypothesis.

Unfortunately, this is not a clinical setting and I have no way of knowing if what you are saying is true. Personally, I suspect you are lying about the events because that is more reasonable in this world than demonic possession.

this is the exact reason why personl experiences, no matter how loudly their veracity is complained, are rarely reliable and certainly do not constitute proof.

I think you're missing the most obvious explanation

What a glorious prank!

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

What about EVP's? I'd say those are defiantly not really natural.

Extreme vaginal phenomenon?

 

[XThe GreatestX]

The mechanisms of the mind don't change, only the proportions of the chemicals intersecting up there change. I get the impression that mental sanity is just a statistical average. If 1000 people see a shoe but one person sees a talking vase instead, the latter will be deemed mentally ill because the average person does not see or hear it. In either case, both groups are hallucinating. 1000 are hallucinating a shoe, the other a talking vase.

What????

 

[ScriptReadsMe]

What????

Reality is constructed by the mind from information picked up by your sensory organs. This results in a cocktail of chemicals interacting with each other and streaming inside your brain and nervous system as you read this. One could say you are on drugs right now and actively hallucinating. We've been running for so long on this potent cocktail that we are convinced our perceived reality is objective reality. It's not. Everything is smoke and mirrors. Nothing is what it seems. It gets worse as things become more and more elaborate because as their complexity increases, so does the number of places where truth can hide. That's why human beings are so deceptive, many stones behind which truth can hide.

 

[Brofessor]

I disagree, because whenever a new animal is discovered it's only new to western science: it's known to natives in the area. The coelcanth was discovered in a fish market and villagers told the scientists which waters they're caught in. The vietnamese deer was hunted by the natives and could have taken scientests there at any time. The supposedly-mythological giant chimpanzees of the Congo were actually so well known to natives that the natives named the chimp groups based on their behaviours.

The only exception to this that I know of is the plateau that was recently discovered in Australia that was accessible only by helicopter. It's possible earlier tribesmen had access to it, but it's unlikely any modern human did.

I suspect that if there were a half-ton ape walking around the third most populous country in the world someone could take you to its habitat.

What is false? Are you saying Bigfoot should be classified as a supernatural entity like a ghost?

To be clear, I'm not debating whether or not Bigfoot is real. I don't personally think Bigfoot exists. However, a big ape would be an animal (natural) whereas ghosts would be the spirits of dead people (supernatural).

 

[Deleted member 429137]

What is false? Are you saying Bigfoot should be classified as a supernatural entity like a ghost?

To be clear, I'm not debating whether or not Bigfoot is real. I don't personally think Bigfoot exists. However, a big ape would be an animal (natural) whereas ghosts would be the spirits of dead people (supernatural).

No, unknown animals whose discovery process resembles other newly discovered animals should be considered natural. Unknown animals whose discovery process looks more like that of bigfoot, the loch ness monster or the chupacabra should be considered supernatural. There are some very key components the latter group is missing in order to be considered an undiscovered part of the natural world and they're basically mythological as a result of it.

 

[Don Quixote]

Extreme vaginal phenomenon?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voice_phenomenon

 

[franklinstower]

I have an interest in Bigfoot, for a while I had a serious interest that was sparked by two of my friends seeing something that resembles bigfoot. I had not thought about the existence of bigfoot since I was a child. One of my female friends saw a big hairy two legged something walking up the side of a mountain while we were riding ATV's way up in the mountains. We pulled over to have lunch and she was visibly shaken and would not tell us what she saw out of embarrassment. We finally got it out of her. The other is a friend of mine who has a second home near Flaming George Damn in Utah. He saw a bipedal, very large hairy something (he refused to call it anything) walking across a meadow one evening. I later made the trip to go see him there for a week and looked at the spot but obviously I saw nothing.

Once on a camping trip in the mountains we stopped at a store in the woods that sold smoked fish caught right there in the river. I like to tease people so I asked the young woman working the register if she grew up around there. She said yes so I asked, Have you ever seen a bigfoot? She replied that she had and described a sighting while walking home from school along a dirt road in the woods when she was twelve. It was unscripted and on the spot and I believed her.

This sparked some interest and I began looking into it and reading various articles and theories. There are a number of different hypothesis about what this could be but the one that made the most sense to me is the idea that it is not an ape at all. It is a man, or at least a kind of a man. There is a name for it in the fossil record and its called Gigantopithicus. Many people hypothesis that bigfoot is a remnant population, possibly very near extinction of this Gigantopithicus, or a common ancestor.

People supposedly in the know put it somewhere between apes and humans on the intelligence scale and hypothesize that Gigantopithicus evolved to become very adept at staying hidden and unseen, that by its nature it is secretive, and that being intelligent it has the brain power to keep out of human sight (mostly) hide its scat, and its dead.

These people further hypothesis that they either evolved or have chosen to be active mostly at night (that's when the most sightings are) to further keep its presence unknown. Many of these people are woodsman or become so after gaining an interest. My knowledge is very limited but there are also mountain ranges that are thought to be vast enough to support them and they are thought to migrate somewhat.

I dont know how much time you spend in the woods. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I go camping once a month for three or four days each trip. I hike-- but off trail. If I am twenty feet or so away from my family they cannot see me and I cannot see them. If it is dark outside its even harder to see. I can easily conceive of a small population, possibly near extinction, of large human like hominids remaining unseen and undiscovered.

In the thick of the forest if you look at maps marking dirt roads and trails and then thought about how YOU might navigate to avoid being seen I really dont think it would be that hard. If you take into account Alaska there is no doubt at all that a physically superior intelligent hominid could remain undiscovered. They are often sighted in brush too thick for humans to pass through and walking 40 or 50 feet below ridges of mountains far away (usually) from any trails.


If the sightings are to be believed we can also gather that they are incredibly fast, strong and move very silently through the woods. They have been described as expert woodsman. Also there are many indigenous populations here in the states that accept the existence of these creatures as a matter of fact,and have oral history describing dealings with them.

After becoming interested I wondered if any of the public woodsman I knew of had seen anything like a bigfoot. Les Stroud is the guy who made the series Survivorman. He goes out for a week at a time and shows how to survive in various ecosystems alone with only a very few essentials. He is one of the few who actually goes out alone and doesn't cheat and you can see it by how shitty he looks after a cold night in the hard ground. It would be worth doing YouTube search and listening to his accounts of what he was HEARD but not seen.

That is all I can remember from when I was looking into it. I remain undecided about the existence of such creature.

 

[franklinstower]

What is false? Are you saying Bigfoot should be classified as a supernatural entity like a ghost?

To be clear, I'm not debating whether or not Bigfoot is real. I don't personally think Bigfoot exists. However, a big ape would be an animal (natural) whereas ghosts would be the spirits of dead people (supernatural).

Bigfoot is often thought to be an interdimensional physical being.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

There have been UFOs, they just haven't been piloted by aliens.

Ole 'foot, Elvis and Batboy are at the helm, right?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

 

[Uncle Bingo]

Bigfoot is often thought to be an interdimensional physical being.

Bigfoot is often thought to be an interdimensional physical being.

 

[Brofessor]

No, unknown animals whose discovery process resembles other newly discovered animals should be considered natural. Unknown animals whose discovery process looks more like that of bigfoot, the loch ness monster or the chupacabra should be considered supernatural. There are some very key components the latter group is missing in order to be considered an undiscovered part of the natural world and they're basically mythological as a result of it.

I don't agree with your definition. If we discovered life on other planets or moons, life UNLIKE anything on Earth, would you consider that to be supernatural as well? Of course not, in my opinion.

And what are these key components you are referring to? I am curious to know.

But let's say I do agree with your definition. Although it probably doesn't exist, Bigfoot would be a large ape. Agree? So by your definition, wouldn't this big ape be an unknown animal that resembles an already discovered animal? Like gorillas or orangutans. So, by your definition, it would be considered natural then.

Regardless, what is so supernatural about a large ape? As far as I know, there are no tales of Bigfoot being able to possess people or phase through solid matter. That would be supernatural territory - like ghosts.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

watch "A Haunting" on discovery... just not alone..... not at night.....and esp not during a thunderstorm at night when alone. esp a haunting in Arkansas or esp a Haunting in Connecticut...shit'll make you a belieber

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I don't agree with your definition. If we discovered life on other planets or moons, life UNLIKE anything on Earth, would you consider that to be supernatural as well? Of course not, in my opinion.

Are you aware that we already found alien life on earth? These animals have been here for a million years and we're just discovering that their neurology is not composed of the chemicals that all other life on earth is composed of?

https://aeon.co/essays/what-the-ctenophore-says-about-the-evolution-of-intelligence

This is more of an aside that I thought you might be interested in.

And what are these key components you are referring to? I am curious to know.

But let's say I do agree with your definition. Although it probably doesn't exist, Bigfoot would be a large ape. Agree? So by your definition, wouldn't this big ape be an unknown animal that resembles an already discovered animal? Like gorillas or orangutans. So, by your definition, it would be considered natural then.

Regardless, what is so supernatural about a large ape? As far as I know, there are no tales of Bigfoot being able to possess people or phase through solid matter. That would be supernatural territory - like ghosts.

Here's the difference: would you agree that searching for an undiscovered deer and searching for a centaur would look like two wildly different endeavours?

When science has investigated bigfoot it came back empty-handed and the current searches for bigfoot more resemble the search for a centaur than the search for an undiscovered deer.

This is why I'm saying bigfoot should be treated like the supernatural since it doesn't seem to fit into the eco-system like any actual animal.

 

[franklinstower]

I don't agree with your definition. If we discovered life on other planets or moons, life UNLIKE anything on Earth, would you consider that to be supernatural as well? Of course not, in my opinion.

And what are these key components you are referring to? I am curious to know.

But let's say I do agree with your definition. Although it probably doesn't exist, Bigfoot would be a large ape. Agree? So by your definition, wouldn't this big ape be an unknown animal that resembles an already discovered animal? Like gorillas or orangutans. So, by your definition, it would be considered natural then.

Regardless, what is so supernatural about a large ape? As far as I know, there are no tales of Bigfoot being able to possess people or phase through solid matter. That would be supernatural territory - like ghosts.

Bigfoot is thought to be by many researchers a remnant population of Gigantapithicus. IF that is the case it will resemble a giant man much more than a giant gorilla. It would be much more intelligent also allowing it to have an agenda of human avoidance.

 

[CargoKing]

I left church early but the woman testified she was a witch and she was born into a family of witches. I can't say that is true because I left but I was told this.

It was a praying and fasting church. It was very common to have people walk in off the street and get delivered. So I assume most of the people there (maybe 75) would say she was demon possessed. In fact, when the lady cried out and was laid out on the floor someone grabbed a prayer cloth and placed it over her body. So that lady knew exactly what happened. Everyone in that room who knew the Bible knew what happened.

Had you been in the room you wouldn't have surveyed everyone. You would have ran for the lobby because the smell of sulfur in the air was putrid.

This was the funniest story about a drunk lady farting in church I've ever heard.

In fact, when the lady cried out and was laid out on the floor someone grabbed a prayer cloth and placed it over her body. So that lady knew exactly what happened.