There is no difference between Contender Series fighters and Regular UFC direct hires

[brackis1]

1)So more camera time makes it big a scam?? How does that work?

2)Less risk of damage I don’t buy they fight more fights in shorter timespan and train the whole time


3) Yes they should get paid more. Doesn’t make it a scam

What? I'm saying TUF provided extra value of camera time as a value if you're trying to measure total "exposure".
I can remember stories and fights from dudes who sucked ass 15 years ago on TUF because of the camera time.
There are dudes who fought on DWCS 5 weeks ago who I will never remember.

 

[Dreyga Hates You Sherbums]

This. Generally signees are proven fighters with a track record to match. DWCS guys have hardly any fights and fight others with the same. Dudes with 2-5 fights under their belts aren't proven commodities.

Tons of the guys on Contenders series are champion from other organizations. The CFFC MW champion fought on tonight’s DWCS card

 

[Dreyga Hates You Sherbums]

What? I'm saying TUF provided extra value of camera time as a value if you're trying to measure total "exposure".
I can remember stories and fights from dudes who sucked ass 15 years ago on TUF because of the camera time.
There are dudes who fought on DWCS 5 weeks ago who I will never remember.

People remember tons of guys from contender series. Plenty of stand outs are hyped up before they even have their UFC debuts. We threads have threads on These guys all the time

 

[TGArthur]

A lot of DWCS flack is given greatly due to comparison to TUF. Although we have seen some good talent come from there like Johnnie Walker, most of the talent gets destroyed because of one glaring flaw of the whole series: no structural training like TUF.

3-0 guys winning UFC contracts IMO is not as beneficial as having world class trainers from multiple disciplines including nutrition coaches and strength/endurance coaches which are the greatest gifts a fighter can get. TUF provided that. Even the fighters who didn't win the show were able to get title fights in the future with their growth as a fighter.

I know this is bit of a blanket statement, but to date, we have seen very few DWCS fighters who have fought for the title, and zero (unless I'm mistaken) have won a title

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

It's not hard: they have multiple match makers.

6-2 dudes with regional opponents?
DWCS
Brazilian or Russian guy with 10+ wins and no losses and experience against tough vets?
Sign to UFC

They're trying to lump as many guys into the contender series route as possible because it's CHEAP
Every pro league ownership group tries to invent ways to regulate how much new entrants are paid and how long their contracts are.
In the NBA for example, guys who gets drafted in the late 1st round are often fucked and make less money over their careers than 2nd rd or UDFA players who aren't forced into a 5 year contract with a slotted salary.

I think you have valid points it just difficult to figure out how legit some of these guys are. I’ve seen guys come on the show with records like 19-3 and look like complete ass.

I can’t even tell you how many forum debates and deep discussions take place over deciphering resumes like Khabibs pre ufc. It’s not straight forward and it’s not all one in the same. It’s very very very hard to tell how well someone will do until they perform against ufc opponents.

Yes we have guys who come on and it feels like a waste of time. Others, it seems like a waste of time and then they turn out to be….less than ideal.

It’s just so hard to say who’s the khabib, and who’s the guy that’s you know….not. Because opponent skill level does matter SO much. Until these guys fight known commodities it’s almost impossible to discern their career trajectories.

 

[brackis1]

I think you have valid points it just difficult to figure out how legit some of these guys are. I’ve seen guys come on the show with records like 19-3 and look like complete ass.

I can’t even tell you how many forum debates and deep discussions take place over deciphering resumes like Khabibs pre ufc. It’s not straight forward and it’s not all one in the same. It’s very very very hard to tell how well someone will do until they perform against ufc opponents.

Yes we have guys who come on and it feels like a waste of time. Others, it seems like a waste of time and then they turn out to be….less than ideal.

It’s just so hard to say who’s the khabib, and who’s the guy that’s you know….not. Because opponent skill level does matter SO much. Until these guys fight known commodities it’s almost impossible to discern their career trajectories.

I mean; they have an entire scouting department lol.
It's pretty obvious in some cases.
Again, not all cases.
But if they mix the two together, the average dumb fan won't give a shit and they save some money.
Endeavor is desperate to keep their profit:loss solid and it adds up immensely.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

I mean; they have an entire scouting department lol.
It's pretty obvious in some cases.
Again, not all cases.
But if they mix the two together, the average dumb fan won't give a shit and they save some money.
Endeavor is desperate to keep their profit:loss solid and it adds up immensely.

Yeah. I don’t think your wrong. But they’ve also figured out a way to televise the scouting process.

it’s definitely a business move and makes a lot of sense. I just think it also benefits the fans. The only people getting the raw end of the deal here is that 5% of guys like the Brendan Allen’s. The Ricky simons. Possibly the Bo nickals. And they don’t come around often.

I’m interested enough to pull new data, I just have to find the time. But I was seeing 1-2 guys each season who would go on those 4-5 fight runs right off the bat. It’s not like we were seeing guys drastically over qualified bull dozing every single episode then going on these ridiculous runs that demonstrate they’re vastly over qualified.

Like I said, I need to update my old thread though so idk if it’s gotten more relevant in later years.

 

[brackis1]

I think you have valid points it just difficult to figure out how legit some of these guys are. I’ve seen guys come on the show with records like 19-3 and look like complete ass.

I can’t even tell you how many forum debates and deep discussions take place over deciphering resumes like Khabibs pre ufc. It’s not straight forward and it’s not all one in the same. It’s very very very hard to tell how well someone will do until they perform against ufc opponents.

Yes we have guys who come on and it feels like a waste of time. Others, it seems like a waste of time and then they turn out to be….less than ideal.

It’s just so hard to say who’s the khabib, and who’s the guy that’s you know….not. Because opponent skill level does matter SO much. Until these guys fight known commodities it’s almost impossible to discern their career trajectories.

Here's a list of dudes who were obvious direct-signees in the era before WME/DWCS/ESPN finding a new way to create cheap content (the network that loves NCAA unpaid sports and makes more money from NFL draft coverage than the actual players drafted do).

3 guys from this week alone to start (will edit as I go through the season). None of these guys needed the contender series to show us they were prospects/capable of being legit UFC fights who could win in the league, let alone be worthy of losing in the UFC. They're either famous Americans with few fights, or dominant foreigners the UFC has a tough time selling as direct hires to dumb espn casuals.

Episode 10
-Bo Nickal (nuff said. Had bigger televised matches than all UFC fighters besides headliners)

-Rafel Estevam 10-0 Nova Uniao trained. Last 6 wins vs guys w/ winning records. Had just come off a 1st rd finish of an undefeated prospect in LFA and a 10-1 prospect right before that

Mateus Mendonca- Training partner to a UFC champ at legendary chuteboxe. 10-0. Wins. Last fight was a win over a 21-5 guy with UFC experience (who got cut for no reason besides being brazilian and fighting a NC lol). Finished almost every fight.

Episode 9:
Bruno Ferreira- All finishes, undefeated, all recent wins vs experienced vets with winning record.

Nurullo Aliev- Undefeated 22 year old beast. Also plenty of wins against vets with winning record.

Jafel Filho - 14-2 Nova Uniao. 2 losses to good opponent. Finishes against a bunch of experienced guys.

Episode 8:
Farid Basharat - Undefeated; brother also UFC prospect. Forced to fight a really good brazilian prospect for whatever reason. Both could have fought in the UFC for more money for the same fight.

Ikram Aliskerov- Only loss to to Chimaev. Fought in top Russian leagues. Sambo world champ. Tooled on his overmatched opponent who was brought back to lose.

Episode 7:
Bonfim Brothers- 13-0 and 18-3. Tons of wins over winning vets. Smaller brother forced to fight a very skilled 30 fight vet in Abbasov. These guys were fighting Adriano Moraes and Moicano literally 10 years ago. But somehow need to prove they belong in the UFC by fighting for 5k against some 6 fight guy who started pro fighting after Covid started?

Episode 6:
Mateysz Rebecki 16-1 coming off a 5 round title fight win. 9 years as a pro. Wins over guys who are current KSW champ and multiple guys 10-3 or better.

Episode 4:
Claudio Ribeiro: 10-2. Coming off 5th rd title finish. losses to legit guys. Needed to somehow prove he was worthy by early-stoppage clipping a terrible flailer in the DWCS; no bonus for brutal KO win.

Nazim Sadyhkhov- Serra Longo protege. A little green, but would have been the next Nick Catone at least; prolly weakest on the list.

Episode 3:
Bo Nickal again

Erik Silva- 35 9-1 All finishes, flashy style. Legit opponents. Dude has like 3 good years left. No fucking point.

Episode 2:
Billy Goff- Last win prior to DWCS was against a DWCS guy lol. Lost a 5 round war in his 3rd ever pro fight against a UFC and Bellator vet in Lachinov. Only non foreigner that seems to have already had a legit record.

Vinicius De Almeida Salvador. 14-4. Losses to other brazilian studs including Filho who is on this same list. Exciting style. 9 years experience.


It's a total joke, and their scouting/matchmaking department is basically just pretend theatre. Each of these dudes would be favored by bookmakers in a real full UFC fight unless paired with a ranked fighter, and yet they're all now getting 5k/5k to start in 2022 because of the contract-manipulations of creating a Contender Series as the way ugly looking foreigners are forced to enter the UFC.
This list of 15 guys alone is saving the UFC about $500,000 in wages, benefits, and bonuses from just one fight each being turned from a regular-contract UFC debut that guys used to get, to BS DWCS terms debut.

 

[brackis1]

Yeah. I don’t think your wrong. But they’ve also figured out a way to televise the scouting process.

it’s definitely a business move and makes a lot of sense. I just think it also benefits the fans. The only people getting the raw end of the deal here is that 5% of guys like the Brendan Allen’s. The Ricky simons. Possibly the Bo nickals. And they don’t come around often.

I’m interested enough to pull new data, I just have to find the time. But I was seeing 1-2 guys each season who would go on those 4-5 fight runs right off the bat. It’s not like we were seeing guys drastically over qualified bull dozing every single episode then going on these ridiculous runs that demonstrate they’re vastly over qualified.

Like I said, I need to update my old thread though so idk if it’s gotten more relevant in later years.

It's not televising the scouting process.
It's televising a UFC fight for the cost of a minor league event.
There were 3 bulldozer jobs on this last card alone.
That's a ton of saved money for them.

And yet it gets ESPN as much, if not more, video highlights for sportscenter than a full-expense UFC card.

 

[Dreyga Hates You Sherbums]

Dude are you really this slow?
You're agreeing with my point lmao.
They're putting 20+ guys in the same show as 3-0 guys and mushing them together into a pile of cheap contract goo.

How is this so fucking hard?
The 20+ win guys if signed directly, would be getting paid more.
Seriously I don't know how else to explain this to you.
Have you ever held a paying job in your life?
Do you not get the difference between 5/5k and no bonus vs 12/k/12k and a 50k bonus? It's a basic mathematical concept.

You are the one not getting it.

 

[capnlarge]

and to get them for CHEAP
These are essential the corporate version of "interns" (if interns took brain damage at work). Paying people less, committing to them for a few weeks, and then hiring a few of them.

The whack part is that unlike corporate internships, which are for college students, the UFC is making some very very legit foreign dudes do "internships" against other "interns", where both fighters would be the equivalent of mid level salary workers already if going with the corporate analogy and measuring their experience level and prior opponents.

Imagine how absurdly unfair it would be if you were someone with 10 years of pro engineering experience and the one company that remained that you wanted to work for made you start as an intern or temp against someone else in the same circumstances.
Meanwhile you find out some other intern has to do way less work against a can where neither guy has any real experience or faced legit guys.

Are fighters from the contenders series making less money than your typical fighter making their UFC debut? Seems like there would not be much difference

 

[brackis1]

Are fighters from the contenders series making less money than your typical fighter making their UFC debut? Seems like there would not be much difference

It's 5kshow/5k win and no bonus. Winning doesn't even assure a contract

Vs. a Bare bones regular UFC contract is 12k/12k + 50k or more in bonuses, plus healthcare coverage, plus if you lose they'll still offer you at least 1 more fight.

not to mention experience of fighting in a big UFC event, vs a friends only Tuesday night thing.
I'm totally fine with a minor league series existing that pays 5k/5k for young raw guys they want to scout and sign before other leagues take them, but not for dudes with 12+ fights who have gone against multiple legit vets already in their careers and/or other promotional title fight experience.
It's a very crafty way to cut costs and fuck guys who are probably broke as fuck out of some money (about 10k in wages plus insurance).
Sad really; all to help improve the stock price of parent company Endeavor rather than give a lifechanging 10k to some poor cagefighter from Brazil who has already given up a decade of life for a shot.