Opinion Theodore Roosevelt: Big Stick Energy

[LMP]

@Deorum

One page in and TR is already a raging racist.

SMDH

Societal norms strongly influence people's beliefs, behaviors, and sense of right and wrong from an early age, shaping how they see themselves and others. Because people naturally seek acceptance from their communities, they adopt ideas and practices that are widely accepted around them, even if those ideas later turn out to be unfair or unjust. Over time, as individuals experience new perspectives, education, or information, societal norms evolve, becoming more inclusive and fair. In this way, society shapes individuals, but individuals also reshape society, creating an ongoing cycle of influence and change.

 

[HOLA]

One of the all time greats. I feel someone like him might be what our country currently needs.

Fave quote I ever heard about him and can't recall who said it ... death will have to come for him when he's sleeping otherwise there's gonna be a fight.

He has some quotes that are so full of testosterone you’ll piss hot if you read them:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”​

 

[Possum Jenkins]

He had antiquated views on race by modern standards, but he was not a raging racist at all for his time period. He actually did a lot of things that pissed WASPS off. In particular, he was the first person to invite a black person into the White House, which he got A LOT of shit over.

He definitely fucked up The Brownsville Affair late in his presidency, but he seemed to really think they were guilty (time has shown they most likely were not).

I guess you gotta put those two things in a scale and see:

Invited the most conservative, passive, conciliatory black leader* of his time to dinner

vs

Wrote an entire book about how the Northern European race was superior and destined to rule over the world and how savage and primitive everyone else was, especially Native Americans. Basically a White Man's Burden for North America.

And while racism and imperialism were obviously far more common back then, there were lots of critics of it. Mark Twain and Andrew Carnegie spoke out against it. And other US presidents in that late 1800s-early 1900s period might have agreed but certainly weren't as vocal as TR. So he was bigoted even for his own time period.


*Source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/debate-w-e-b-du-bois-and-booker-t-washington/

 

[Rod1]

I like him on the basis of him wrestling against early judoka

 

[Rob Battisti]

Yes, I read all 3. The other two were interesting as well, although not quite as good as the first one.

Agreed the first was the best

 

[Rob Battisti]

Societal norms strongly influence people's beliefs, behaviors, and sense of right and wrong from an early age, shaping how they see themselves and others. Because people naturally seek acceptance from their communities, they adopt ideas and practices that are widely accepted around them, even if those ideas later turn out to be unfair or unjust. Over time, as individuals experience new perspectives, education, or information, societal norms evolve, becoming more inclusive and fair. In this way, society shapes individuals, but individuals also reshape society, creating an ongoing cycle of influence and change.

Poetry in Sherdog

 

[oldshadow]

One of my favorite and a great man.

Best view for our world policy is "Walk softly and carry a big stick".

 

[HOLA]

I guess you gotta put those two things in a scale and see:

Invited the most conservative, passive, conciliatory black leader* of his time to dinner

vs

Wrote an entire book about how the Northern European race was superior and destined to rule over the world and how savage and primitive everyone else was, especially Native Americans. Basically a White Man's Burden for North America.

And while racism and imperialism were obviously far more common back then, there were lots of critics of it. Mark Twain and Andrew Carnegie spoke out against it. And other US presidents in that late 1800s-early 1900s period might have agreed but certainly weren't as vocal as TR. So he was bigoted even for his own time period.


*Source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/debate-w-e-b-du-bois-and-booker-t-washington/

TR wrote like 50 books, dozens of articles and 150,000 letters. + wrote many of his speeches himself. Few people were as vocal as him. He was imperfect and can be criticized like anyone (Twain was a misogynist and Carnegie was a robber baron) but I’m pretty familiar with him and he was definitely fairly progressive for his time.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Very effective. Did good for the country and environment. I very much disagree with his outlooks on race and social dynamics. I don't think his beliefs aged well and I don't believe in the "product of his time" argument. He did a lot of good things and I'll give him credit for that but he isn't someone I would treat like a role model.

 

[LMP]

Poetry in Sherdog

There are a lot of people that were brutal beyond societal norms of their time, like Columbus. Incredibly brutal. What he did in the Caribbean to the peaceful people he encountered was sick even for people of his time. TR was a progressive of his time, and most likely would still be today. We can't look back and pretend that there is a 1:1 comparison from history to today. Societal norms change.

 

[HOLA]

There are a lot of people that were brutal beyond societal norms of their time, like Columbus. Incredibly brutal. What he did in the Caribbean to the peaceful people he encountered was sick even for people of his time. TR was a progressive of his time, and most likely would still be today. We can't look back and pretend that there is a 1:1 comparison from history to today. Societal norms change.

Columbus’s own men put him in chains and sent him back to Europe because of how fucked up he was.

 

[LMP]

Columbus’s own men put him in chains and sent him back to Europe because of how fucked up he was.

Yet some view him as a hero to worship still to this day

 

[Possum Jenkins]

TR wrote like 50 books, dozens of articles and 150,000 letters. + wrote many of his speeches himself. Few people were as vocal as him. He was imperfect and can be criticized like anyone (Twain was a misogynist and Carnegie was a robber baron) but I’m pretty familiar with him and he was definitely fairly progressive for his time.

You sure don't seem to think so.

My initial post clearly said he was a mixed bag, and I even mentioned the positives, but you have an issue with the negative part of the bag being brought up.

 

[Other]

I guess we get to choose which history we want to believe and the lens in which we view it.

There are no longer objective facts, just subjective opinions on what we perceive happened when viewed from our respective lens.

There are no longer agreed upon events of history... just what the individual believes. Because that's all that matters, right?

 

[Mr Holmes]

His spot on the beautiful Mt Rushmore is well deserved.

 

[Natural Order]

Straight fucking alpha, that's for sure.
Incredible life of accomplishments and helping to progress the ideas of freedom and conservation. GOAT tier, as evidenced by his inclusion on Rushmore.

Donald Trump isn't fit to drink from the pot that this man pissed in.

 

[Natural Order]

I guess we get to choose which history we want to believe and the lens in which we view it.

There are no longer objective facts, just subjective opinions on what we perceive happened when viewed from our respective lens.

There are no longer agreed upon events of history... just what the individual believes. Because that's all that matters, right?

Get that post-modernist anarchy outta here, Marcel.

 

[Other]

Get that post-modernist anarchy outta here, Marcel.

"It's not anarchy if I say it isn't"

Am I doing this right? Or is my head not fully covered in sand?

 

[Natural Order]

"It's not anarchy if I say it isn't"

Am I doing this right? Or is my head not fully covered in sand?

Sorry I forgot Foucault's first name, meant Michel lol

 

[Other]

Sorry I forgot Foucault's first name, meant Michel lol

To be great is to be misunderstood