The War Room Bet Thread V3

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andnowweknow said:
I disagree and now I see why many other posters are questioning your honesty and noting your penchant for not betting in good faith.
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andnowweknow said:
I'm happy for Lead or someone else to make the call, I've made my point I think...and I think you understand my point as well. If you're that concerned with "winning" a bet and not interested in what I have said here, not the end of the world.
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You are a disgrace.
 
Lead said:
You're presenting a premise here though that doesn't seem possible for calling the bet. Is it guaranteed we ever know about the redacted cases? If not, are you saying that shortly after Trump is out of office is when this bet should be settled? We have a #3 so these things don't continue on indefinitely, especially if it is an event that's going to or not going to happen.


A very important piece in making these bets is if there are any "if" situations you believe should make the bet null, we list them in the bet itself under #6. Otherwise, they aren't acknowledged just because we didn't have the foresight to know that would happen. It would just leave open the possibility of not honoring the bet. Everything needs to be handled and made clear upfront before the bet is finalized for that stuff.



The report could very well be seen as the end of the investigation. That's why the bet got extended because despite the investigation coming to a close, the trial still remained open and was the overriding piece to #3 (Trial conclusion > End of investigation).

We can ask other mods on this bet whether it should be called. I'm leaning on it should but we can elect two others if you are contesting #3.
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I'm saying that the bet was nullified when the Mueller team (well after the bet was made), guaranteed that Roger Stone and Donald Trump would never be adjudicated while the president is in office. You want to settle a bet when the fundamental validity of it was settled AFTER THE BET WAS MADE? I mean, that's fine, but it was a disingenuous bet by @waiguren in the first place which is why we had all the rigmarole over it in the first place.

Yes, the report could be seen as the end of the investigation...the report was really just the end of Robert Mueller's involvement, and one of its prime acknowledgments was that literally nothing involving the president (in a criminal sense) could ever be dealt with while he is in office. The charges of the bet were directly tied to Trump and Roger Stone's involvement.

You don't need to involve other mods, if you want to call the bet go ahead. I'm guessing this isn't the first issue you're dealing with regarding @waiguren bets in this thread...I don't visit here enough to know and it's a sig bet, no big deal.

I would suggest, were it my choice, that the bet be redefined as yes, once Trump is out of office so we can actually see whether the charges against Stone are hidden...say 3 months after Trump leaves office. I'd even go so far as to allow our friend a "win" if Trump is re-elected considering we'd be waiting another 4 years for any sort of understanding of the situation as DOJ opinion is unlikely to change.

so yeah, up to you @Lead
 
andnowweknow said:
I'm saying that the bet was nullified when the Mueller team (well after the bet was made), guaranteed that Roger Stone and Donald Trump would never be adjudicated while the president is in office. You want to settle a bet when the fundamental validity of it was settled AFTER THE BET WAS MADE? I mean, that's fine, but it was a disingenuous bet by @waiguren in the first place which is why we had all the rigmarole over it in the first place.

Yes, the report could be seen as the end of the investigation...the report was really just the end of Robert Mueller's involvement, and one of its prime acknowledgments was that literally nothing involving the president (in a criminal sense) could ever be dealt with while he is in office. The charges of the bet were directly tied to Trump and Roger Stone's involvement.

You don't need to involve other mods, if you want to call the bet go ahead. I'm guessing this isn't the first issue you're dealing with regarding @waiguren bets in this thread...I don't visit here enough to know and it's a sig bet, no big deal.

I would suggest, were it my choice, that the bet be redefined as yes, once Trump is out of office so we can actually see whether the charges against Stone are hidden...say 3 months after Trump leaves office. I'd even go so far as to allow our friend a "win" if Trump is re-elected considering we'd be waiting another 4 years for any sort of understanding of the situation as DOJ opinion is unlikely to change.

so yeah, up to you @Lead
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With the link you showed me, were you referencing the "Transfers" or the "Referrals" or both? There are currently two redacted transfers which I believe would be a case itself while the 12 redacted referrals may just be information passed along that could have no follow up? Is that how you see it?
 
Lead said:
With the link you showed me, were you referencing the "Transfers" or the "Referrals" or both? There are currently two redacted transfers which I believe would be a case itself while the 12 redacted referrals may just be information passed along that could have no follow up? Is that how you see it?
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Why are you even indulging his ridiculous fantasies? Just be objective. The text of the bet is crystal clear.
 
andnowweknow said:
further evidence that you don't care about the substance of these bets at all, you're a fuckin weirdo dude.
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I try to warn people that his bets come pre-loaded with bullshit lol
This one was transparent imo due to how hard he was trawling at the time over the term "collusion". Tried real hard to snare people over it, and it looks like you got got brosky. On the actual spirit of the bet, you clearly won. And I think any non-douche would readily concede that. But for someone like Wai, getting around the spirit of a bet is part of the fun because he's really just trying to flex intellectual arrogance. This why nobody should ever make wagers with him.
 
Lead said:
With the link you showed me, were you referencing the "Transfers" or the "Referrals" or both? There are currently two redacted transfers which I believe would be a case itself while the 12 redacted referrals may just be information passed along that could have no follow up? Is that how you see it?
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I believe the redactions are a direct result of the DOJ opinion that it is inappropriate and unfair to not charge someone (at this moment) but still include information about cases pending against them. I think it is 100% certain that almost all of these referrals directly relate to matters involving the president.

As per the difference in redacted transfers vs. referrals, my assumption would be that they didn't have the necessary standing (again, because of DOJ opinion you can't charge a sitting president with a crime) to do anything but refer most of the wrongdoing they found (not to mention they probably didn't want to spend time on leads that they knew they couldn't prosecute). Sounds likely to me that the two transfers were fleshed out cases, as you assumed, and that the others probably just got referred because the Special Counsel simply didn't have the time to deal with all of it, especially stuff they were not permitted to even charge on.

Roger Stone is literally at the heart of all of this and the bet was effectively nulled and made irrelevant (by the letter of the law of the bet, which @waiguoren knows) when the Mueller report was released.
 
Limbo Pete said:
I try to warn people that his bets come pre-loaded with bullshit lol
This one was transparent imo due to how hard he was trawling at the time over the term "collusion". Tried real hard to snare people over it, and it looks like you got got brosky. On the actual spirit of the bet, you clearly won. And I think any non-douche would readily concede that. But for someone like Wai, getting around the spirit of a bet is part of the fun because he's really just trying to flex intellectual arrogance. This why nobody should ever make wagers with him.
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it seems really weird to me that he wants to "win" this bet at this moment given what has a occurred. There is a weird need to be "right" that certain people have, with no regard for actual substance.
 
andnowweknow said:
it seems really weird to me that he wants to "win" this bet at this moment given what has a occurred. There is a weird need to be "right" that certain people have, with no regard for actual substance.
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You obviously lost the bet. It's not even close. Lead is trying to put it nicely to you But you continue to argue.

The fact a couple of posters are indulging you because they hate the champ changes nothing.

You lost and it is not even debatable. The sad thing is that you essentially never had a real chance of winning but let your ego get in the way and made an obvious bad bet.

Own up to it and congratulate the Champ. Learn from it and let it make you a better man.
 
@andnowweknow Just say he won and then disappear without implementing the spirit of the wager. It's what champions with honor do
 
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andnowweknow said:
it seems really weird to me that he wants to "win" this bet at this moment given what has a occurred. There is a weird need to be "right" that certain people have, with no regard for actual substance.
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Live and learn, bruh
There's a reason we ride Wai for being a shitty bettor/welching can
 
andnowweknow said:
I believe the redactions are a direct result of the DOJ opinion that it is inappropriate and unfair to not charge someone (at this moment) but still include information about cases pending against them. I think it is 100% certain that almost all of these referrals directly relate to matters involving the president.

As per the difference in redacted transfers vs. referrals, my assumption would be that they didn't have the necessary standing (again, because of DOJ opinion you can't charge a sitting president with a crime) to do anything but refer most of the wrongdoing they found (not to mention they probably didn't want to spend time on leads that they knew they couldn't prosecute). Sounds likely to me that the two transfers were fleshed out cases, as you assumed, and that the others probably just got referred because the Special Counsel simply didn't have the time to deal with all of it, especially stuff they were not permitted to even charge on.

Roger Stone is literally at the heart of all of this and the bet was effectively nulled and made irrelevant (by the letter of the law of the bet, which @waiguoren knows) when the Mueller report was released.
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I feel like you are acknowledging the bet at the moment is lost but if the "spirit" of the bet was followed through on, we would continue to an indefinite but possible end point either a little over a year from now or five years from now. I think we need to stick to the terms set here. We don't know of any remaining charges against Stone left here since Mueller's report came out. If there were multiple trials scheduled, I could see a reason for this to hold out, especially if one in particular met the criteria of the bet but another didn't.

Can I confirm you believe the bet is lost if called at this point of time?
 
Lead said:
I feel like you are acknowledging the bet at the moment is lost but if the "spirit" of the bet was followed through on, we would continue to an indefinite but possible end point either a little over a year from now or five years from now. I think we need to stick to the terms set here. We don't know of any remaining charges against Stone left here since Mueller's report came out. If there were multiple trials scheduled, I could see a reason for this to hold out, especially if one in particular met the criteria of the bet but another didn't.

Can I confirm you believe the bet is lost if called at this point of time?
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No, I'm not saying or thinking I lost the bet at this point in time, I'm saying it's not over.

I'll make it not indefinite if that is your gripe with my arguments, give it 3 months after the election in 2020 or 3 months after Donald Trump's earlier removal from office (only injecting that last part because of who the bet is against, don't want loose ends). If after that point Stone isn't at least implicated in further cases regarding Russian collusion (and other tenets of the original bet) I'll concede the bet openly. I certainly won't ask that the bet continue if the president wins re-election given we'd be waiting another 4 years. It would probably take well longer than 3 months after Trump is gone for any charges to be filed but I'd put that limit on it to be a reasonable actor in the face of an unreasonable one (@waiguoren).

I think that is fair.
 
JDragon said:
@andnowweknow Just say he won and then disappear without implementing the spirit of the wager. It's what champions with honor do
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I am a champion that's true, but if the wager is indeed decided, I'll face my fate with honor and integrity, unlike my adversary. Hopefully we can reposition the bet so that he doesn't look so bad.
 
SBJJ said:
You obviously lost the bet. It's not even close. Lead is trying to put it nicely to you But you continue to argue.

The fact a couple of posters are indulging you because they hate the champ changes nothing.

You lost and it is not even debatable. The sad thing is that you essentially never had a real chance of winning but let your ego get in the way and made an obvious bad bet.

Own up to it and congratulate the Champ. Learn from it and let it make you a better man.
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I'm the champion, and I haven't made a bet with him.
 
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