Economy The [Wall / Government Shutdown] Megathread

[Demoslasher]

What does congress have to do with his ability to declare an emergency other than the fact that they created the law that grants Trump the power to do so?

The law was created because 90% of history congress is in gridlock. The fkn dump hasn't passed one good bipartisan bill in the last two presidents. It's partisanship at its highest level.

That's why the president has this power...to respond to an emergency where congress is too slow and dysfunctional.

Wow...where to begin with this level of ignorance

1. It literally has everything to do with Congress because it deals with allocation of government funds which is the exclusive power granted to the congress by the constitution. This is basic separation of powers day in middle school dude. A president finding a backdoor way to allocate funds to his pet projects without the need of a congressional vote is a blatant violation of the separation of powers/checks and balances in the government. Which goes against everything that the founders intended.

2. What end of which Fox News anchors ass did you pull that definition of the emergency powers act from? It was NEVER implemented for that purpose, not even close! The emergency powers act is designed so that in the case of a actual emergency such as we are being invaded by a foreign army or facing any large scale threat to our nation, a president can declare a emergency in order to act in situations where going through congress would be to slow...aka we need to move right now to respond to a threat to our lives, a real threat, not this. It was never intended to just be a backdoor way to get campaign promises done. In fact the act clearly states that the administration would have to prove to the courts that this is a large scale imminent threat to the nation as a whole THAT CANT WAIT FOR CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL...not being able to pass a budget that includes a campaign promise, when a clean CR passed 100-0 in the senate doesn't come close to that burden

3. So you would be perfectly fine with President Bernie Sanders declaring a Crisis and passing sweeping global warming reforms without congressional approval? You would be okay with President Warren declaring a crisis in walstreet and passing reforms on the stock market? You would be okay if President Trump sees his approval numbers in the military drop and suddenly declare a crisis that divert military spending to fund another pet project? See where im going with this? Giving the president a blanket power to ignore the congress is dangerous, and not at all how emergency powers are supposed to be used.

4. Sean Hannity is a human urinal cake for his insistence on the president going down this road. If Obama had done anything close to suggesting this for anything, he would be demanding his impeachment. The alt right is a skid mark on the fabric of our society...

 

[sickc0d3r]

What does congress have to do with his ability to declare an emergency other than the fact that they created the law that grants Trump the power to do so?

The law was created because 90% of history congress is in gridlock. The fkn dump hasn't passed one good bipartisan bill in the last two presidents. It's partisanship at its highest level.

That's why the president has this power...to respond to an emergency where congress is too slow and dysfunctional.

I guess that's why he's giving congress more time to think about it and run it through the normal process. Because it is such an emergency.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Wow...where to begin with this level of ignorance

1. It literally has everything to do with Congress because it deals with allocation of government funds which is the exclusive power granted to the congress by the constitution. This is basic separation of powers day in middle school dude. A president finding a backdoor way to allocate funds to his pet projects without the need of a congressional vote is a blatant violation of the separation of powers/checks and balances in the government. Which goes against everything that the founders intended.

2. What end of which Fox News anchors ass did you pull that definition of the emergency powers act from? It was NEVER implemented for that purpose, not even close! The emergency powers act is designed so that in the case of a actual emergency such as we are being invaded by a foreign army or facing any large scale threat to our nation, a president can declare a emergency in order to act in situations where going through congress would be to slow...aka we need to move right now to respond to a threat to our lives, a real threat, not this. It was never intended to just be a backdoor way to get campaign promises done. In fact the act clearly states that the administration would have to prove to the courts that this is a large scale imminent threat to the nation as a whole THAT CANT WAIT FOR CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL...not being able to pass a budget that includes a campaign promise, when a clean CR passed 100-0 in the senate doesn't come close to that burden

3. So you would be perfectly fine with President Bernie Sanders declaring a Crisis and passing sweeping global warming reforms without congressional approval? You would be okay with President Warren declaring a crisis in walstreet and passing reforms on the stock market? You would be okay if President Trump sees his approval numbers in the military drop and suddenly declare a crisis that divert military spending to fund another pet project? See where im going with this? Giving the president a blanket power to ignore the congress is dangerous, and not at all how emergency powers are supposed to be used.

4. Sean Hannity is a human urinal cake for his insistence on the president going down this road. If Obama had done anything close to suggesting this for anything, he would be demanding his impeachment. The alt right is a skid mark on the fabric of our society...

Lol...u feel better now hair trigger. I mean I'm lmao!

And you missed my point on top of it.

I said the fact that he tried to pass something through congress and failed doesn't matter. He can still declare it an emergency.

Your second point is basically paraphrasing what I said. Yes congress is slow. Slow not because it takes so long to vote on a bill..but slow because their are so many factions and agendas and politics being played. Basically they are not equipped to deal with a real emergency. Well alot of people believe this is one. The president has been consistent in that.

And presidents already over step their constitutional powers through the power of federal agencies. Obama basically regulated the coal industry out of business.

And lol I don't even have the fox news channel...it's ok snowflake. Tell me where fox news touched you.

There are checks on this too so don't lose too much sleep . It's called federal courts and rest assured they will use them immediately.

 

[ebe9]

Well there's a username and avatar I haven't seen in awhile. Stop by the boxing forum sometime, bud.

Damn bro didn’t think anyone would remember me! Nice to be back.

 

[andnowweknow]

Calm down and have a Soylent, npc#324234523432
Don't be mad your dems lie just like obama promising transparency
He used the NSA and made it more difficult for the freedom of press act to be taken advantage than any other president.
Gg breh. Keep supporting phile NWO elites

 

[ScottE]

He ran on the promise of building a wall. Pretty obvious that it should be built, if America still has a functioning democracy.

Regardless of whether it's stupid or not, a waste of money or not, how does it reflect on American democracy if even a president cannot cash on his promises? Where's the incentive to vote if nothing will be done? When even the elected leader of a country is without authority?

Like with ObamaCare, or pulling out of Iraq, you had to get it done, because it was a large part of why people voted for the guy. If it hadn't been done, it would have reflected on the government even worse than an unfinished package or a premature withdrawal of troops.

A half-assed wall, or fence, is still better than no wall. At the very least it will serve to reinforce some kind of trust to the people that voted.

You're acting as if our political system is structured in a way where a president can just dictate execution of their campaign goals upon election. That is not how our system of governance is set up, its deliberately set up contrary to that in many ways.

Lets face reality Trump won the election, but not with the numbers he needed to be in a position to dictate policy. He did not have a popular mandate to fall back on. His policies did not and do not have the support amongst voters to give him the weight he needs to unilaterally get them done.

Trump got alot of votes on not being Hilary, Trump got alot of votes based on just his brand. His policy positions were poorly thought out and the reality is many of them were not popular. And that's especially true when portions of them turned out to not exist. Look at Trump on HC. He campaigned hard on repealing Obamacare and replacing it with his better HC plan. But when it became clear he didn't have a HC plan, support for repealing Obamacare vanished. Just because he won the election doesn't mean he has support for his policies, especially to get them done unilaterally.

And when a president isn't in that power position of being able to dictate terms because they enjoy popular support for their position, they have to make deals to get stuff done. Obama had to make alot of compromises to get the ACA passed. That despite him being elected by a much wider margin and his healthcare reform enjoying way more broad support amongst voters then Trump's policy platform. Obama still had to negotiate and had to work hard to get the ACA passed despite starting off in a better position on that issue. Trump didn't do that with the wall. He blew up his one negotiation attempt and then sat on the issue until now where he's making panic moves because of the mid-term results and criticism from his sides pundits.

You say that it undermines the political process if an elected president can't get what he wants done. Why vote for someone if that's the case. What it undermines is voting for someone with; poorly thought out policy positions, some of which include outright fabrications, who is not willing to negotiate to get their policies implemented, who doesn't surround themselves with people that will help facilitate that, and who can't work with anyone that isn't a yes-man. That's the type of voting it undermines.

So perhaps Trump being unable to get his policies executed, when other presidents have been able to, says less about our political system and more about him being a poor leader.

 

[MicroBrew]

It is beautiful. It represents sovereignty and strength. It represents the rule of law.

It is gorgeous.

He never elaborated on what he meant by beautiful, so all we are left with is thinking he is just referring to its physical aesthetics.

 

[glenwo2]

I'm actually surprised by the lack of votes for "I am a Trump supporter and I don't support the use of emergency funds." I thought there would be at least some posters who support trump but have some semblance of sense or principle.

Translation : Why can't there be Trump Supporters who support open borders like us?

Not that @GearSolidMetal does but liberals here obviously believe a Barrier does not work. It's now a tired argument that neither side will ever agree with.

 

[Demoslasher]

Lol...u feel better now hair trigger. I mean I'm lmao!

And you missed my point on top of it.

I said the fact that he tried to pass something through congress and failed doesn't matter. He can still declare it an emergency.

Your second point is basically paraphrasing what I said. Yes congress is slow. Slow not because it takes so long to vote on a bill..but slow because their are so many factions and agendas and politics being played. Basically they are not equipped to deal with a real emergency. Well alot of people believe this is one. The president has been consistent in that.

And presidents already over step their constitutional powers through the power of federal agencies. Obama basically regulated the coal industry out of business.

And lol I don't even have the fox news channel...it's ok snowflake. Tell me where fox news touched you.

There are checks on this too so don't lose too much sleep . It's called federal courts and rest assured they will use them immediately.

1. It's remarkable to me that when right wingers get offended, everyone is supposed to drop what their doing and listen without interrupting to how starbucks cups and football players kneeling are destroying our nation. But when anyone else says anything it's "stop being triggered snowflake". Am I angry? Fuck yes I'm angry, because we're in the midst of the longest government shutdown in history because the president is throwing a baby tantrum because he didn't get his way for once in his life. I have friends that spent Christmas with their family wondering how they're going to pay the rent. To me, if you don't get triggered by a president hurting nearly a million people as part of a baby tantrum, when the fuck can you get angry?

2. The fact that he tried to pass this in congress and it was voted down mean EVERYTHING!!! It literally throws the emergency powers act out the window because it is based off the assumption that the threat is imminent and theres no time to consult congess. Congress has been consulted and they decided that this wasn't a emergency of any kind. They decided that two years straight while Republicans owned Washington...so the fact that he tried to do this through congressional approval and it failed means it doesn't fall under the criteria of the emergency powers act. Again it's not designed as a backdoor way to ignore the congress.

3. Only alt right media pushes the narrative that Government agencies somehow go against the founders. There's literally no supporting evidence to support that position and tons to the contrary. It's also why appointees to said agencies often must be approved by congress...again, friends don't liet friends skip government day in school.

4. I love when alt righters parrot the exact arguments they heard on Fox, damn near word for word, then when you call them on it they always claim "I don't even watch Fox News". Just admit that you don't understand how the government works so you let Fox do the thinking for you.

 

[Deleted member 347815]

Starving your own people in the name of a fake crisis.

Interesting play.

 

[glenwo2]

 

[cincymma79]

 

[MicroBrew]

I'm actually surprised by the lack of votes for "I am a Trump supporter and I don't support the use of emergency funds." I thought there would be at least some posters who support trump but have some semblance of sense or principle.

Trumpism has taken over the GOP ; the reasonable ones are just not even bothering.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Everybody else’s fault except trump.



POTUS is the biggest pussy of them all.

 

[cincymma79]

Everybody else’s fault except trump.



POTUS is the biggest pussy of them all.

Uh huh and if he gave in you’d make the same post.

The wall isn’t in my top 10 issues but it is for him and he’s sticking to his guns. So he’s holding out for that 0.05% of the budget to use. So watch attuis point the other side won’t budge at all when he’s laid his position out in writing already. At this point it is on the other side.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Uh huh and if he gave in you’d make the same post.

No I wouldn’t. He’s had full control for 2 years and done fuck all, but now it’s the dems fault.

Cry baby Trump.

 

[Blowing Dixie]

People actually care what that gay moslem apologist has to say? Bizarre.

 

[cincymma79]

No I wouldn’t. He’s had full control for 2 years and done fuck all, but now it’s the dems fault.

Cry baby Trump.

Only one person crying here so far

 

[Teen Wolf]

Only one person crying here so far

Yeah Trump.

 

[cincymma79]

Yeah Trump.

Great argument. You and the make America wah again posters really got him there