The Ultimate Turtle / 4 Points Thread

I've got a couple of questions about IBJJF rules regarding the turtle position.

If someone is about to pass your gaurd and you roll away from them to the turtle position does the person who was about to pass get any points or an advantage?

Or if someone has already passed your guard and has secured side control and has been given points... If you then get to your knees to the turtle do they get an advantage?
 
Awesome man. As a Judoka who just moved to BJJ. I end up giving my back too often, but am also able to use the Turtle better than my average rolling partners. Love this stuff!

Cool man. I'm a judoka primarily and like to work my defense from here. I usually can stall out bjjer's and work a single or roll them over. Fight those hooks tho! I can usually scrape them off and get to kesa. But its much easier to deal with if your stop the hooks in the first place.
 
Marcelo Garcia Side Control Escape




Saulo Ribeiro Side Control Escape

 
Man, really wish Eduardo's turtle guard video wasn't $125.
I know there has to be someone who has this on their shelf and hasn't touched it in a year or two, but it's not like there's a "Grappling Craigslist". I know for a fact that I could download it for free, but I've only ever done that for stuff that is no longer for sale.

Does anybody have his video set? What do you think of it? Would you like to sell it to me?
 
This thread looks like a goldmine for me, I get stuck in turtle a lot. Thanks for the links people.
 
Never seen a video for this,

when you're in a front headlock get a 2 on 1 grip on the arm blocking the shoulder at the wrist. Push away from you, swim your head to the outside and you can attack their back or go for takedown
 
Never seen a video for this,

when you're in a front headlock get a 2 on 1 grip on the arm blocking the shoulder at the wrist. Push away from you, swim your head to the outside and you can attack their back or go for takedown

Sure you don't mean get a grip on the arm that's blocking your neck? Sounds like a sucker drag.
 
Nobody likes to use the truck for attacking turtle?
 
Can any one answer why Robson suggests you never turn inwards to re-guard from turtle? Lots of people suggest re-guarding to half from turtle, and Robson is the only person I've ever heard to say never turn inwards to get half from turtle.

I have no idea. I love the turtle hook and use it all the time. I reguard from the turtle hook just like Leo Viera shows in that clip above.

As to KJ Gould's statement that turtle hook solves one problem only to create another, I don't agree in BJJ or sub grappling, because you will just sit to guard. In wrestling you are worried about being driven flat with that leg, but in BJJ no fucks are given because you will just end up in guard. Also I don't feel there's toehold exposure from there.

I commonly escape side control into the turtle hook position, rather than the classic "shrimp to reguard." This is an exceedingly useful escape, because your opponent commonly blocks your lower leg from reguarding, so if you instead drive your UPPER knee in across, make eshpace to turtle with hook, and then reguard, you are solid.
 


I like this one. Could use some tuning for the finish, but I see what it needs. This is def going into my toolbox......because I suck at proper peek out. LOL.
 
here's my contribution:


EDIT: Sorry bout the no-sound, youtube screwed up the video.
 
Sure you don't mean get a grip on the arm that's blocking your neck? Sounds like a sucker drag.


It is the same arm but two hands attacking his grip at his hands as opposed to grabbing his elbow

Personally, in bjj, I only go for sucker drags when he already has my shoulder trapped against my neck. If I still have ideal elbow positioning I would much prefer attacking his hands
 
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oh boy, one of my favorite topics.


first, we must give tribute; leg ride is the one true god, and power half is his prophet (with reposts from an ancient catch united sticky).


cialis leg rides make you better than the joneses brent metcalf, you want to be better than the joneses brent metcalf dont you?

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this match took place before palmers and metcalfs meeting at the ncaa's, (and in that match id venture that palmers decision to take the bottom refs position after a coin flip contributed to his loss, as his use of the cross body ride in this match greatly contributed to his victory, wearing metcalf out before the 3ed period).
palmer starts his series around 4;00, demonstrates the effectiveness of the power half in maintaining top position, even when off balance.

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here we see an example of utilizing both hooks in. around 3;20 the top man utilizes a seatbelt grip to take the back. important detail to note is how he keep his hooks in deep, grape vining the inner thighs. this allows him a secure hold and also helps prevent the bottom man from grabbing a foot to shuck him off. additional points include cutting out the bottom mans arms when tripoding, inorder to flatten him out. the power half is further displayed here aswell. also watch how he uses his hip movement to maintain position when the bottom man is rolling to escape, switching between back saddle and front saddle.

other detail to note is how when the top man starts turning his power half, he unhooks the leg on that same side, essentially switching to the single leg/cross body ride when starting his offense.

here you can see what happens without adjustment.
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for more help putting this stuff into action, this is a good tutorial on basic things to be aware of.


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with a little adjustment, the leg ride series opens a whole world of possibilities in breakdowns, submissions, and pinning opportunities, as some competitors like gary tonon or various 10pjj guys are becoming aware of.



next, we draw our eye to a venerable, but oft neglected old standby, the nelson hold.
in the hands of masters of the highest levels of achievement, this unassuming control hold can quickly morph chimaera like into an inescapable instrument of pressure, punishment, and pain.


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wade schalles was famous for defeating his competition by pin (holding multiple world records such as defeating the most NCAA Champions and World Champions, and pinning the most NCAA champions and World Champions), and one of his secret weapons was a nelson hold variant he called the 'chin twist pick'. by cupping the chin and turning the head sideways on or past the shoulder, natural head nodding motion becomes very unnatural. in this position even a slight amount of flexion starts blocking wind and blood flow. this hold can be obtained pretty much anywhere if you can get your arm around his head and pull it in, but going belly down compounds the effect, as the act of pulling up on the head multiplies the amount of force going down into the opponents diaphragm.


now here we have another (in)famous mat wrestling guru, gene mills, whos improbable victory over anatoli beloglazov in the world cup was largely due to his skills on the ground. which was a doubly tall order given the rule differences between freestyle and folkstyle.

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mill's own spin on the nelson hold is the stack, which allows you to keep an opponent in a highly compromising position for next to no effort on your part.

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an adjustment on the stack here is the use of the knee to push the opponents head into his chest while stacked, choking him out. the opponents arms are also in prime position for equally effortless chicken wings.

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the deep half nelson rears its unholy head again.


in folkstyle wrestling, people getting over eager with the nelson hold is a very common source of potentially dangerous calls. when looked at another way, this leads to an interesting observation, *its very easy to turn a nelson into popping joints*. in submission wrestling this leads to a catch 22 situation; if he concedes the turn, he risks getting caught in a deep half or stack, if he tries to resist doggedly, he risks getting his shoulder separated.

it can be dangerous even before starting a turn aswell. one of the most basic attacks off the half nelson is to use it to bring the shoulder up, then use your free hand to pull the arm across behind his head. this attack can be easily incorporated in leg riding series, and is even more difficult to defend than chokes from the back.



'basic' techniques turned superlative is a continuing theme here, and we're interested in attacking the turtle from all angles. so next on tap is sergei beloglazov with his signature bodylock tech.
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the front bodylock is often thought of as neutral at best, and in practice something to transition out of quickly before the opponent can hit the back door. but once again, in the hands of a master, special details turn a pedestrian hold into the most dangerous game.
with this attack, turtling to reverse position from bottom, or recover from a stuffed shot becomes a much riskier proposition due to the ease to turning an opponent over, and can lead directly into a strait jacket compression choke.



well then, theres lots of other stuff that can be spoken of, cradle variations for one, but i think thats enough for one post.
 
Defence

Catch

Shoulder roll and shin lock



More on shin locks ( attacking hooks )


Attack

Judo, Sankaku Jime



 

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