Media The Thrill and the Agony clip shows that TJ was still very conscious and aware

[SKSer45]

I'm not saying this is a bad stoppage because it isn't but it wasn't a good stoppage either, when you take into consideration all the factors like the fact it's TJ and a super-fight it should have gone a bit longer and this new clip and audio sort of shows that TJ was still very conscious and aware.

Meanwhile, Henry is about to Smash Cena's Ex and make Manlet babies.

 

[Shaddows]

That's not how I've seen the term used; I've always seen it used to refer to a match between two current champions (which excludes some of your examples). However, I agree with your assessment of Cejudo-Dillashaw, independently of whether it was a superfight.

That's the point!
The term "Super fight" is not supposed to be between two fighters who happened to win the belt and never defended it.
Super fight is supposed to mean something, like to unbeaten (or dominant) champions.

The problem is that UFC started marketing almost everything as superfight, and people just accepted and started repeating it like every two champion fights are supposed to be a super fight.
They are not.

Just think about the meaning of the "super" in super fight.
Superman was not anyone who dressed like superman.

Same needs to be applied here.

A Super fight should be one that would fill in a stadium just because of that fight (and not because they are popular, but because they are that good).

Much like a super fight in Boxing would be Floyd -Pac during their heydays.
Not Conor & Floyd. That, was a scam.

 

[felmmando]

I certainly see the rationale for the use you want to make of the term "superfight." In favour of the more standard usage, I would point out that at least it follows a very clear-cut definition: your proposal leaves room for a good deal of personal disagreement about whether a match is indeed a "superfight." I readily grant that not every champ vs. champ bout will be a "superfight" in your sense of the word.

That's the point!
The term "Super fight" is not supposed to be between two fighters who happened to win the belt and never defended it.
Super fight is supposed to mean something, like to unbeaten (or dominant) champions.

The problem is that UFC started marketing almost everything as superfight, and people just accepted and started repeating it like every two champion fights are supposed to be a super fight.
They are not.

Just think about the meaning of the "super" in super fight.
Superman was not anyone who dressed like superman.

Same needs to be applied here.

A Super fight should be one that would fill in a stadium just because of that fight (and not because they are popular, but because they are that good).

Much like a super fight in Boxing would be Floyd -Pac during their heydays.
Not Conor & Floyd. That, was a scam.

 

[Damon3388]

FFS, when will people realise that it's not just a matter of whether they're "out" or not?!

You can be as conscious and aware as you like, but if you're not intelligently or effectively defending yourself against blows that are being reigned down upon you, the ref should step in and call it off.

 

[Ruke Doufus]

1. "I'm not saying it was a bad stoppage, but here's why I think it's a bad stoppage." C'mon TS, you're better than that.

2. Being "conscious and aware" has never been the standard for a stoppage. It's about intelligently defending yourself. TJ got face-planted, ate a huge right hand when he tried to get up, immediately got dropped again with a 4-punch combination, and ate like 12 unanswered punches. The referee's job is to protect the fighters, and TJ clearly needed to be protected at that point.

3. The referee shouldn't allow more punishment simply because "it's TJ and a super fight." That's ridiculous.

I was rooting for TJ, but the stoppage was fine. He's a fantastic fighter, but he clearly doesn't deal well with a fighter who's faster than him.

The stoppage was crap. They've let far worse beatings go on way longer and those aren't considered late stoppages.

Just look at Frankie Edgar. The MMA community as a whole praised his toughness and ability to fight through adversity.

Tj was hurt but it wasn't over yet If it's true that 3 more punches would have sealed the deal then let Henry land those 3 and have a clean win. Quick stoppages like this cheapen it for the winner as well as rob the loser.

 

[Shaddows]

I certainly see the rationale for the use you want to make of the term "superfight." In favour of the more standard usage, I would point out that at least it follows a very clear-cut definition: your proposal leaves room for a good deal of personal disagreement about whether a match is indeed a "superfight." I readily grant that not every champ vs. champ bout will be a "superfight" in your sense of the word.

I see your point.
But don't forget. When the term was first used, it was for fights like GSP & SIlva. Now we are talking TJ & Cejudo.... a very great distance between both, and IMHO it devalues the meaning of it.

It is akin to claiming every champion should be GOAT...

 

[boss429]

Ok that’s fine. But it can mean smashing the fuck out of someone in 32 seconds also. That’s deep water and I’m drowning your ass right now type of stuff.

Nah, that's more drowning you in the kiddie pool instead of bothering to drag you out into the ocean, haha.

 

[boss429]

The stoppage was crap. They've let far worse beatings go on way longer and those aren't considered late stoppages.

Just look at Frankie Edgar. The MMA community as a whole praised his toughness and ability to fight through adversity.

Tj was hurt but it wasn't over yet If it's true that 3 more punches would have sealed the deal then let Henry land those 3 and have a clean win. Quick stoppages like this cheapen it for the winner as well as rob the loser.

Yeah but Frankie was scrambling away and getting back up before getting dropped again and doing the same thing.

Everyone keeps mentioning TJ was grabbing a leg and trying to stand up but he was sitting down awkwardly and half heartily wrapping his hand low on Henry's leg. There is really little doubt he wouldn't have ended up just getting beat on for another few seconds if the ref let him continue, he wasn't coming back from that and not coherently scrambling like he did from the first knockdown.

 

[Lukn4trbl]

"he was extremely aware that he got a beat-down"

 

[Mixedfights]

Dude got woke up by punches then got punched some more.

 

[McBlaze]

cejduo did NOT win that fight...

 

[Portland8242]

Too many people are using their personal bias and dislike of TJ to justify this bad stoppage imo.

Imagine if your favorite fighter lost in this fashion. Imagine if it was GSP losing to Woodley or khabib losing to Conor in exactly this manner.

I'm not saying TJ was fine, he was probably just going to take more punishment, but he earned the right to at least take a decisive loss. There was too much preparation build up, legacy etc on the line plus all the suffering he had to do just to make weight to get into the fight.

We had just seen a few fights earlier, old man Glover dropping lifelessly after receiving some elbows and by this referees standards the fight could have been stopped right there. We saw how that fight actually turned out.

Oh god if Khabib lost to Connor that way Sherdog woulda blown a fuckin gasket.

As a TJ hater I will admit that the stoppage was early, but in NO WAY am I inclined to believe the result would be different. Cejudo woulda finished 100%, he had that shit in the bag

 

[Paladin]

I'm not saying this is a bad stoppage because it isn't but it wasn't a good stoppage either, when you take into consideration all the factors like the fact it's TJ and a super-fight it should have gone a bit longer and this new clip and audio sort of shows that TJ was still very conscious and aware.

Is there a place to see the longer in cage footage and footage of the corner cams / family cams?

They always show a few seconds and a longer time frame would be great.

 

[felmmando]

I see your point.
But don't forget. When the term was first used, it was for fights like GSP & SIlva. Now we are talking TJ & Cejudo.... a very great distance between both, and IMHO it devalues the meaning of it.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was used well before GSP and Silva came on the scene. If memory serves, Shamrock vs. Severn (each of whom was champion of a UFC tournament) was billed as a "superfight." It's hard for me to compare those pioneers' standing to Cejudo's and Dillashaw's cumulative cachet, although the 2019 so-called superfight is doubtless the more entertaining.

 

[clutchCAT420]

Yeah but Frankie was scrambling away and getting back up before getting dropped again and doing the same thing.

Everyone keeps mentioning TJ was grabbing a leg and trying to stand up but he was sitting down awkwardly and half heartily wrapping his hand low on Henry's leg. There is really little doubt he wouldn't have ended up just getting beat on for another few seconds if the ref let him continue, he wasn't coming back from that and not coherently scrambling like he did from the first knockdown.

Every frankie ts fight should have ended sooner. His years of rematches killed the lw title for years.

 

[Joshuaace]

Pretty sure one of those undefended strikes from Henry knocked TJ back to concious.

Agree.

Also think an illegal elbow or 6 woke Glover back up after going out to a legal elbow or 3.

 

[boss429]

Every frankie ts fight should have ended sooner. His years of rematches killed the lw title for years.

True, and that fight should have never ended in a draw either. Almost getting murdered in the first 2 rounds then narrowly edging out the last 3 shouldn't equal victory. Round 1 was a 10-7 if I ever saw one, maybe even a 10-6. He did get robbed in Bendo 2 though but the first fight was a clear Bendo win so the rematch was unnecessary and even as a huge BJ fan I remember thinking during the fight if BJ doesn't get more aggressive he's going to lose. On a rewatch I'm not so sure but that rematch may not have needed to happen either.

Who knows what would have happened if Grey didn't get hurt and Frankie never got that fight. BJ would have wrecked Grey and maybe Frankie gets passed over and never endes up having the legacy he does.

Timing really is everything, lol.

 

[dildos]

Agree.

Also think an illegal elbow or 6 woke Glover back up after going out to a legal elbow or 3.

haha oh shit, yeah! thats true!

 

[Ah Man]

I see your point.
But don't forget. When the term was first used, it was for fights like GSP & SIlva. Now we are talking TJ & Cejudo.... a very great distance between both, and IMHO it devalues the meaning of it.

It is akin to claiming every champion should be GOAT...

???

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was used well before GSP and Silva came on the scene. If memory serves, Shamrock vs. Severn (each of whom was champion of a UFC tournament) was billed as a "superfight." It's hard for me to compare those pioneers' standing to Cejudo's and Dillashaw's cumulative cachet, although the 2019 so-called superfight is doubtless the more entertaining.

Edit: Although, for the record, Shamrock never won a UFC tournament. He did win the Superfight Championship from Severn.

 

[Talon81]

Ok that’s fine. But it can mean smashing the fuck out of someone in 32 seconds also. That’s deep water and I’m drowning your ass right now type of stuff.

It CAN mean it, sure... if thats how you mean it. I can say "I love you" and actually mean "Im going to murder you in your sleep".
But it DOESNT mean that to any of the rest of the world.

“Deep water” doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.

Deep water, in the context of prize fighting, refers to taking your opponent into the later rounds and drowning them with superior cardio and output.

This. This is exactly what it actually means.