Media The Thrill and the Agony clip shows that TJ was still very conscious and aware

[laleggenda27]

The stoppage was crap. They've let far worse beatings go on way longer and those aren't considered late stoppages.

Just look at Frankie Edgar. The MMA community as a whole praised his toughness and ability to fight through adversity.

Tj was hurt but it wasn't over yet If it's true that 3 more punches would have sealed the deal then let Henry land those 3 and have a clean win. Quick stoppages like this cheapen it for the winner as well as rob the loser.

Could the fight have gone on for a second or two longer? Sure. There's no perfect, singular moment to stop a fight (barring one-shot KOs); there's a range of time where a stoppage is acceptable. This fight fell within that range.

 

[GhostPunch]

So conscious and aware that he tried to single leg the air.

 

[voodoo chile1]

on the contrary, he looked fucked up to me

 

[Spitfire3000]

Imagine GSP got knocked down two more times in a 20 second time period after that kick and maybe then the situations would be comparable.

GSP was knocked down once and immediately looked to cover up and get guard.

TJ got knocked down three times and was flopping like a fish while not defending punches to his face.

He was going for a single leg at the time of the stoppage.

 

[GiSP]

The only standard the stoppage can be held to is how the ref can be expected to react seeing what he sees, without foreknowledge, in real time.

We're breaking it down frame by frame after seeing it a billion times, without the additional stress of possibly being responsible for an already compromised fighter getting his brain busted while the fur is flying.

Very wise and I personally have never used the term early stoppage in describing a fight. Like I don’t cry about or dispute certain controversial judging decisions year after year.

The ref has a tough job. It easy to criticize from the couch in hindsight with the help of slo mo replays.

 

[Grapplefest]

Thought it was a good stoppage at first, but imagine if they stopped every Tony Ferguson fight where he was rocked like that. He would have a loss to Lando vannata and pretty much 80% of the guys he's faced.

 

[Ruke Doufus]

Could the fight have gone on for a second or two longer? Sure. There's no perfect, singular moment to stop a fight (barring one-shot KOs); there's a range of time where a stoppage is acceptable. This fight fell within that range.

I see your point, but I'm starting to think I saw a different fight than everyone else. I saw tj moving the entire time. "intelligent defense" is subjective it seems, since a guy trying to move and attempting an admittedly half hearted single leg shows to me he's not done yet. Had he grabbed the leg and hung on it without moving while getting pummeled I wouldn't say a thing. Lots of guys show "intelligent defense" while getting peppered. Intelligent doesn’t equal effective at all times.

If protecting the fighters to that extent that you feel you need to save them from a handful of punches is the chief concern don't let them fight all since the entire point of fighting is to hurt each other to see who's better at it.

 

[laleggenda27]

I see your point, but I'm starting to think I saw a different fight than everyone else. I saw tj moving the entire time. "intelligent defense" is subjective it seems, since a guy trying to move and attempting an admittedly half hearted single leg shows to me he's not done yet. Had he grabbed the leg and hung on it without moving while getting pummeled I wouldn't say a thing. Lots of guys show "intelligent defense" while getting peppered. Intelligent doesn’t equal effective at all times.

If protecting the fighters to that extent that you feel you need to save them from a handful of punches is the chief concern don't let them fight all since the entire point of fighting is to hurt each other to see who's better at it.

I think it's fair to say we saw who was better on that night. I don't think we needed TJ to go unconscious in order to solidify that point.

I hear your point, and these kinds of things are certainly subjective. But TJ literally face-planted on the first knockdown. When a fighter falls on his face, that's usually a clear sign for referees that the fight is just about over. The referee gave TJ a chance to defend, but he ended up eating a bunch of unanswered punches in the process and getting dropped again with a 4-punch combination. TJ keeps pushing this idea that he was going for a single leg, to which I would say: (1) that was hardly "going for a single leg;" that looked like nothing more than a wrestling instinct; (2) he seems to think that reaching for someone's leg is necessarily enough to stave off a stoppage, which is absurd; (3) the "single leg" didn't actually matter because the referee was moving in to stop it immediately after the second knockdown; he had already seen enough.

Getting face-planted, eating (by my count) twelve unanswered punches, and getting dropped a second time seems like enough to stop a fight. Again, I was rooting for TJ, but I really don't see the argument.

 

[Gmork]

Yeah, that was after the fight. He should be conscious considering the ref saved him.

The ref saved him from actually getting beat? That's gotta be the most blatantly chicken shit response I've seen. Hate is making a lot of you very disingenuous regarding this fight.

TJ is fine there. Contrast that to when Cody tried to stand up at the end of their fight, world's difference. Looking forward to the rematch.

 

[Mbowes]

Ok that’s fine. But it can mean smashing the fuck out of someone in 32 seconds also. That’s deep water and I’m drowning your ass right now type of stuff.

Sure if that's what you want it to mean. But a better way to put it was he got whomped before he had a chance to step outside the kiddie pool (insert flyweight joke)

 

[Shaddows]

???

Edit: Although, for the record, Shamrock never won a UFC tournament. He did win the Superfight Championship from Severn.

Come on now, brother!
First of all, this is way before Zuffa era.
Second, this was (indeed) a superfight (at the time).

Ken was a beast and his only (MMA) loss was to Royce, who was unbeaten at that time.

At that time, there was no bigger fight than that, so this was indeed a super-fight!

And like I noted, it really didn't need to be between champions, but that doesn't mean that weak/recently crowned champions automatically would make a super-fight!

to give you some perspective: Silva & DC was not a super-fight. And the distance between them and TJ or Cejudo is miles and miles ahead!

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

As soon as the fight was stopped and he stood up he was spaghetti legged.

Maybe doing something other than taking shots for most of the 32 seconds of the fight would have helped.

Dude got starched and made a fool of - perhaps a little humility before and after would be a good thing from now on.

But from all accounts the guy is dick to his training partners so it is not surprising he is such a sore loser.

 

[fightfan84]

He only had those mere seconds to gather his equilibrium because the ref saved him.

Doesn't make it a good stoppage though, assuming what was going to happen. TJ wasn't nearly as out on his feet as say Kongo was vs Pat. Should have let it go on longer, there was no limp moments from tj or eyes rolling back moments. Quick stoppage, bad call on the ref but it is what it is. TJ is easy to dislike so its hard to not enjoy the way that fight went down.