The Star Trek Thread, V5.0

[sverre054]

Really looking forward to watching it tomorrow night.

Watched Orville with the wife tonight. What a strong showing again, I feel like I need to marry Seth MacFarlane in addition.

Keep forgetting that you guys have to wait until Fridays to watch.

 

[Madmick]

Wow, tonight's episode of Discovery was the best episode of Trek in 20 years. Fantastic stuff.

20 years? What a low bar. This show is dog vomit, and a disgrace to Star Trek. Your blind affection for it reminds me of Petey's for True Blood s2, or those who couldn't accept what happened to Dexter and The Walking Dead before it became impossible to overlook. On the last page you hounded @fonzob1 by challenging him, "Have you even watched the show yet?"
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?series=tt5171438&sort=user_rating,desc&count=250&view=advanced
People watching the show don't think highly of it, including the most hardcore Trekkies, like unattached creatives who have written Trek episodes in the past, and there is a undeniable downward trajectory of esteem among viewers this season.

Anson Mount as Captain Pike is the show's redeeming grace. Spectacular actor. He is the show's voice and moral center. They should accept he is the show's central character, but they are clinging to the errant idea from their outset of a first officer as the main protagonist. Burnham, Ash, and Georgiou are anchors dragging everything down: actors and characters alike. The show will never be good with them in it, but they won't let go of their mistakes. That's why there is no digging themselves out.

Saru was more interesting before they tried turning him into Nat Turner. That subplot had so much freaking potential, but they blatantly demonized the species who should have been the object of our sympathies.

The showrunners realized killing Culber was so dumb they cooked up a ridiculous subplot just to bring him back. Uggh. The actors are crushing it trying to carry that dropped ball, but it's too late. It's like a comic book with the inability to commit to a decision-- even a bad one. Incoming...retcon!! What? We've done it before! Remember Wrath of Khan?!! See?! Justified! Justified!

The show could earn some cred if it had the spine to just be honest, instead of a feel-good fantasy, in how it treats its characters. Someone like Tilly has no place in leadership, and would never ascend to a place of leadership in the real world, or have her misguided delusions about that entertained by no-nonsense military colleagues who would instead do the right thing, the hard thing, and let her know she would better invest her energies and dreams in a different destiny. Curveball of life. Show doesn't have the courage to confront it. It would rather tell fairy tales to weak, insecure girls.

Section 31 is boring, dumb, hackneyed Hollywood treatment of black ops and military intelligence. It's nonsense.

There's more insubordination than in a Harry Potter movie, there's more infighting than on Game of Thrones, and there's more Kung Fu than on Xena: Warrior Princess. Seriously, wtf is the deal with all the kung fu. Pulp television. Belongs on the CW.

Star Trek: Enterprise has a higher IMDb rating, and that isn't a mistake. One strong (not great) episode won't change that. This is unremarkable, glossy, forgettable television.

 

[Philo-Publius]

20 years? What a low bar. This show is dog vomit, and a disgrace to Star Trek. Your blind affection for it reminds me of Petey's for True Blood s2, or those who couldn't accept what happened to Dexter and The Walking Dead before it became impossible to overlook. On the last page you hounded @fonzob1 by challenging him, "Have you even watched the show yet?"
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?series=tt5171438&sort=user_rating,desc&count=250&view=advanced
People watching the show don't think highly of it, including the most hardcore Trekkies, like unattached creatives who have written Trek episodes in the past, and there is a undeniable downward trajectory of esteem among viewers this season.

Anson Mount as Captain Pike is the show's redeeming grace. Spectacular actor. He is the show's voice and moral center. They should accept he is the show's central character, but they are clinging to the errant idea from their outset of a first officer as the main protagonist. Burnham, Ash, and Georgiou are anchors dragging everything down: actors and characters alike. The show will never be good with them in it, but they won't let go of their mistakes. That's why there is no digging themselves out.

Saru was more interesting before they tried turning him into Nat Turner. That subplot had so much freaking potential, but they blatantly demonized the species who should have been the object of our sympathies.

The showrunners realized killing Culber was so dumb they cooked up a ridiculous subplot just to bring him back. Uggh. The actors are crushing it trying to carry that dropped ball, but it's too late. It's like a comic book with the inability to commit to a decision-- even a bad one. Incoming...retcon!! What? We've done it before! Remember Wrath of Khan?!! See?! Justified! Justified!

The show could earn some cred if it had the spine to just be honest, instead of a feel-good fantasy, in how it treats its characters. Someone like Tilly has no place in leadership, and would never ascend to a place of leadership in the real world, or have her misguided delusions about that entertained by no-nonsense military colleagues who would instead do the right thing, the hard thing, and let her know she would better invest her energies and dreams in a different destiny. Curveball of life. Show doesn't have the courage to confront it. It would rather tell fairy tales to weak, insecure girls.

Section 31 is boring, dumb, hackneyed Hollywood treatment of black ops and military intelligence. It's nonsense.

There's more insubordination than in a Harry Potter movie, there's more infighting than on Game of Thrones, and there's more Kung Fu than on Xena: Warrior Princess. Seriously, wtf is the deal with all the kung fu. Pulp television. Belongs on the CW.

Star Trek: Enterprise has a higher IMDb rating, and that isn't a mistake. One strong (not great) episode won't change that. This is unremarkable, glossy, forgettable television.

Thank you.

 

[JDragon]

there is a undeniable downward trajectory of esteem among viewers this season.

Not sure about yet. My wife hates this season, I think it's okay, and web tracking services have Discovery as the #1 series in Germany this week.

 

[JDragon]

The showrunners realized killing Culber was so dumb they cooked up a ridiculous subplot just to bring him back. Uggh.

You don't have to like that plot, but based on all interviews that were made at the time, it was pretty obvious that this was gonna happen all along.

 

[sverre054]

Not sure about yet. My wife hates this season, I think it's okay, and web tracking services have Discovery as the #1 series in Germany this week.

https://translate.googleusercontent...700253&usg=ALkJrhi2lhnqNlc8tTmsmg32R04RQv0pYA

I just read that they estimate Discoverys last episode had 8 million viewers in just Germany last week.

 

[sverre054]

20 years? What a low bar. This show is dog vomit, and a disgrace to Star Trek. Your blind affection for it reminds me of Petey's for True Blood s2, or those who couldn't accept what happened to Dexter and The Walking Dead before it became impossible to overlook. On the last page you hounded @fonzob1 by challenging him, "Have you even watched the show yet?"
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?series=tt5171438&sort=user_rating,desc&count=250&view=advanced
People watching the show don't think highly of it, including the most hardcore Trekkies, like unattached creatives who have written Trek episodes in the past, and there is a undeniable downward trajectory of esteem among viewers this season.

Anson Mount as Captain Pike is the show's redeeming grace. Spectacular actor. He is the show's voice and moral center. They should accept he is the show's central character, but they are clinging to the errant idea from their outset of a first officer as the main protagonist. Burnham, Ash, and Georgiou are anchors dragging everything down: actors and characters alike. The show will never be good with them in it, but they won't let go of their mistakes. That's why there is no digging themselves out.

Saru was more interesting before they tried turning him into Nat Turner. That subplot had so much freaking potential, but they blatantly demonized the species who should have been the object of our sympathies.

The showrunners realized killing Culber was so dumb they cooked up a ridiculous subplot just to bring him back. Uggh. The actors are crushing it trying to carry that dropped ball, but it's too late. It's like a comic book with the inability to commit to a decision-- even a bad one. Incoming...retcon!! What? We've done it before! Remember Wrath of Khan?!! See?! Justified! Justified!

The show could earn some cred if it had the spine to just be honest, instead of a feel-good fantasy, in how it treats its characters. Someone like Tilly has no place in leadership, and would never ascend to a place of leadership in the real world, or have her misguided delusions about that entertained by no-nonsense military colleagues who would instead do the right thing, the hard thing, and let her know she would better invest her energies and dreams in a different destiny. Curveball of life. Show doesn't have the courage to confront it. It would rather tell fairy tales to weak, insecure girls.

Section 31 is boring, dumb, hackneyed Hollywood treatment of black ops and military intelligence. It's nonsense.

There's more insubordination than in a Harry Potter movie, there's more infighting than on Game of Thrones, and there's more Kung Fu than on Xena: Warrior Princess. Seriously, wtf is the deal with all the kung fu. Pulp television. Belongs on the CW.

Star Trek: Enterprise has a higher IMDb rating, and that isn't a mistake. One strong (not great) episode won't change that. This is unremarkable, glossy, forgettable television.

I think this whole second season has been strong season one has some Intresting plots, and some stunning visuals, but largely was unorganized and you could tell was in turmoil behind the scenes. I still think looking at trek as a whole, discovery still had one of the better 1st season, but granted they had about 10 less episodes then the other trek series.

I have liked most of the retconning they have done so far this season. I think the leads are finally developing into Intresting characters, and I am actually starting to care about what happens to them.

 

[JDragon]

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.quotenmeter.de/cms/?p1=n&p2=107764&p3=&qry=&mobile=off&xid=25657,15700019,15700186,15700191,15700248,15700253&usg=ALkJrhi2lhnqNlc8tTmsmg32R04RQv0pYA

I just read that they estimate Discoverys last episode had 8 million viewers in just Germany last week.

Think it relates to just any Discovery episode that week, but still.

 

[sverre054]

Not sure about yet. My wife hates this season, I think it's okay, and web tracking services have Discovery as the #1 series in Germany this week.

Ratings are up across the board from what they have said, and what the statistics show.

 

[sverre054]

Thank you.

I would respect your opinion more on Discovery, if you actually gave the show a chance You have said in the past, you have only watch the free episode show on CBS.

@fonzob1 I respect your opinion on Trek, and I like when you contribute to the conversation. I is just don't think you ever gave DSC a fair chance.

I'm not saying DSC is the best show ever, or even the best trek series. Only time will tell in this day and age, if TNG launched when the internet was active it would active, destroyed by so called " true fans" and critics.

 

[Philo-Publius]

I would respect your opinion more on Discovery, if you actually gave the show a chance You have said in the past, you have only watch the free episode show on CBS.

@fonzob1 I respect your opinion on Trek, and I like when you contribute to the conversation. I is just don't think you ever gave DSC a fair chance.

I'm not saying DSC is the best show ever, or even the best trek series. Only time will tell in this day and age, if TNG launched when the internet was active it would active, destroyed by so called " true fans" and critics.

I absolutely gave the show a chance by watching the first episode, and I have seen more than enough of it. There is no way I am going to pay money to watch something that I know is fundamentally wrong. It's clear that you and others are giving it a pass despite its faults. In more ways than not, it doesn't even resemble Star Trek to me (least of all TNG). @Madmick hit the nail on the head.

 

[Madmick]

Not sure about yet. My wife hates this season, I think it's okay, and web tracking services have Discovery as the #1 series in Germany this week.

Viewer ratings per episode are on the decline in the second season. Five of the season's eight episodes rate between 6.5-7.5 on IMDb when TV shows on IMDb tend to be rated much more highly than movies, respectively. There are well north of a dozen fictional shows released each year that average 8.0 or higher as a series. So far, across 23 episodes, Discovery has notched only six episodes which rate 8.0 or higher, and not a single episode that breaks 9.0.

As far as viewership CBS won't release this information, but its All Access growth has already slowed to a crawl:
https://www.nscreenmedia.com/cbs-all-access-star-trek-discovery-growth-slows/

It's not some smashing hit. It's a huge underperformer relative to the budget CBS has invested in the show.

 

[sverre054]

Viewer ratings per episode are on the decline in the second season. Five of the season's eight episodes rate between 6.5-7.5 on IMDb when TV shows on IMDb tend to be rated much more highly than movies, respectively. There are well north of a dozen fictional shows released each year that average 8.0 or higher as a series. So far, across 23 episodes, Discovery has notched only six episodes which rate 8.0 or higher, and not a single episode that breaks 9.0.

As far as viewership CBS won't release this information, but its All Access growth has already slowed to a crawl:
https://www.nscreenmedia.com/cbs-all-access-star-trek-discovery-growth-slows/

It's not some smashing hit. It's a huge underperformer relative to the budget CBS has invested in the show.

Interesting articles that does make some valid points, but he is using his assumptions for his numbers(which granted he has too, since the are not released). CBS went in knowing that comparative to other trek series, DSC would get lower numbers, due to the pay wall. Hell the rating Enterprise was cancelled for, would be deemed successful in today's landscape. I think some of the newer digital expressions ratings service give a better overall ratings and reach comparisons. Just like recent articles, have said up to 8 million Germans, watched last weeks episode. And Lets be honest, Discovery has a huge number of people torrenting it or just using a vpn to watch it via European Netflix.

I am quite interested to see if they will get a big jump in subscribers, for the Picard series. Do you think that many more people will pay to watch Picard? I'm not so sure, and that scares me, because I want more new Star Trek. I hope they do a big PR push, before it comes out, to drive subs. It will also be interesting to see how Trek does in CBS in a post Les Moonves world. Moonves was well known for hating Star Trek, so lets see what the new regime does with Trek.

 

[Madmick]

Interesting articles that does make some valid points, but he is using his assumptions for his numbers(which granted he has too, since the are not released). CBS went in knowing that comparative to other trek series, DSC would get lower numbers, due to the pay wall. Hell the rating Enterprise was cancelled for, would be deemed successful in today's landscape. I think some of the newer digital expressions ratings service give a better overall ratings and reach comparisons. Just like recent articles, have said up to 8 million Germans, watched last weeks episode. And Lets be honest, Discovery has a huge number of people torrenting it or just using a vpn to watch it via European Netflix.

I am quite interested to see if they will get a big jump in subscribers, for the Picard series. Do you think that many more people will pay to watch Picard? I'm not so sure, and that scares me, because I want more new Star Trek. I hope they do a big PR push, before it comes out, to drive subs. It will also be interesting to see how Trek does in CBS in a post Les Moonves world. Moonves was well known for hating Star Trek, so lets see what the new regime does with Trek.

Even the "demand expressions" don't fare well for the show. It's not even Top 5 among digital exclusives by that metric.

In fact, shows behind a paywall are far more likely to be pirated. The more costly or less subscribed the paywall, and the greater the ratio of piracy to traditional views that can be measured. This is why cable shows and premium television shows rule top piracy lists. Yet Discovery wasn't even a Top 10 pirated show in 2018 or 2017 despite its niche:
https://torrentfreak.com/the-walking-dead-most-torrented-tv-show-of-2018/
https://torrentfreak.com/game-of-thrones-most-torrented-tv-show-of-2017-171226/

It's not popular, and it definitely isn't getting more popular.

 

[sverre054]

Even the "demand expressions" don't fare well for the show. It's not even Top 5 among digital exclusives by that metric.

In fact, shows behind a paywall are far more likely to be pirated. The more costly or less subscribed the paywall, and the greater the ratio of piracy to traditional views that can be measured. This is why cable shows and premium television shows rule top piracy lists. Yet Discovery wasn't even a Top 10 pirated show in 2018 or 2017 despite its niche:
https://torrentfreak.com/the-walking-dead-most-torrented-tv-show-of-2018/
https://torrentfreak.com/game-of-thrones-most-torrented-tv-show-of-2017-171226/

It's not popular, and it definitely isn't getting more popular.

Do you think it a DSC problem, or a CBS all access problem. Look I understand why people may not like DSC, escpecially when they showed Battle of the binary stars on CBS, which while looking pretty, wasn't a great episode, way too fast aced, and changed to much about trek, which I see why many wouldn't want to pay for more. I think DSC has greatly improved during its run, which I understand you disagree with. My main question is how do you think Picard will fair on all access? Will good old Picard have enough name value to bring in more new subscribers?

 

[Madmick]

Do you think it a DSC problem, or a CBS all access problem. Look I understand why people may not like DSC, escpecially when they showed Battle of the binary stars on CBS, which while looking pretty, wasn't a great episode, way too fast aced, and changed to much about trek, which I see why many wouldn't want to pay for more. I think DSC has greatly improved during its run, which I understand you disagree with. My main question is how do you think Picard will fair on all access? Will good old Picard have enough name value to bring in more new subscribers?

I don't think the relatively small core, primary audience that CBS All Access brings is helping it compared to shows like Stranger Things that has the massive Netflix base, for example, but I think it's the show's problem.

If it were really good word of mouth would spread like wildfire, and it make the top piracy charts. It has the production value. If IMDb is any indication, I'm in the minority who think the first two episodes of the first season were astonishing, and generally loved the possibilities of where things might head in the first half of the first season before the whole mirror universe crap became apparent, and Lorca was transformed from an antihero in a complicated moral time to an outright villain. I thought the show was going to sublimely continue to mine the tension between that character and Burnham. This is what the show needed to do to make Burnham interesting. She already demonstrated that she was a morally flexible human being with a vigilante streak.

With Lorca, they had created a canvas to fight for her soul; would she grow to be like him, or would she rebel against his leadership, constantly challenging him, but evolving into a better officer in the mold of her previous mentor, the real Georgiou. That potential was squandered.Unlike The Empreror Georgiou, Lorca was actually an interesting character who one could credibly believe had a nuanced enough understanding to advance to his rank. His power was believable. Empress Geogiou is a #woke cartoon. Awful villain. Someone like her would never amount to anything in an organization like Star Fleet. These people are too educated and sophisticated. They'd sniff her out in a heartbeat.

Just throwing money at the wall combined with endless ridiculous Kung Fu sequences doesn't make a good show that people will want to watch. Netflix learned that with Marco Polo.

 

[sverre054]

I don't think the relatively small core, primary audience that CBS All Access brings is helping it compared to shows like Stranger Things that has the massive Netflix base, for example, but I think it's the show's problem.

If it were really good word of mouth would spread like wildfire, and it make the top piracy charts. It has the production value. If IMDb is any indication, I'm in the minority who think the first two episodes of the first season were astonishing, and generally loved the possibilities of where things might head in the first half of the first season before the whole mirror universe crap became apparent, and Lorca was transformed from an antihero in a complicated moral time to an outright villain. I thought the show was going to sublimely continue to mine the tension between that character and Burnham. This is what the show needed to do to make Burnham interesting. She already demonstrated that she was a morally flexible human being with a vigilante streak.

With Lorca, they had created a canvas to fight for her soul; would she grow to be like him, or would she rebel against his leadership, constantly challenging him, but evolving into a better officer in the mold of her previous mentor, the real Georgiou. That potential was squandered.Unlike The Empreror Georgiou, Lorca was actually an interesting character who one could credibly believe had a nuanced enough understanding to advance to his rank. His power was believable. Empress Geogiou is a #woke cartoon. Awful villain. Someone like her would never amount to anything in an organization like Star Fleet. These people are too educated and sophisticated. They'd sniff her out in a heartbeat.

Just throwing money at the wall combined with endless ridiculous Kung Fu sequences doesn't make a good show that people will want to watch. Netflix learned that with Marco Polo.

This past episode was the first time, I have really liked where they are going with Geogiou. I think there whole plan this season will be taking section 31 from this known, scary figure in Star fleet, to the ultra secret organization, like we see in DS9

 

[sverre054]

Looks like a prime candidate for a Romulan, to me..

Evan Evagora has been cast as a series regular alongside Patrick Stewart in the upcoming, untitled Star Trek series that centers on Jean-Luc Picard, the iconic character from the Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series and films.

Stewart returns to role he had for seven seasons on Next Generation with a show that will follow the next chapter of his life and air exclusively on CBS All Access in the U.S. The series will be distributed concurrently internationally by CBS Studios International.


The series will be produced by CBS Television Studios in association with Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment. Alex Kurtzman, James Duff, Akiva Goldsman, Stewart, Michael Chabon, Heather Kadin, Rod Roddenberry and Trevor Roth will serve as executive producers and Aaron Baiers (Secret Hideout) will serve as co-executive producer.

Evagora, a Melbourne, Australia, native, is the youngest of seen siblings. His mother, Marie, is of Maori descent and moved from Auckland to Australia at age 20. His father, a onetime professional boxer named Xristos, immigrated to Australia from his homeland of Cyprus at age 3.

No details about the role Evagora will play on the Picard series, which is still cloaked in some secrecy. Stewart is a key member of the new show’s creative as well as its star. Chabon, the novelist and a member of the show’s writers room, told Deadline in November that Stewart’s involvement would be taking the show to new Starfleet heights.

“With Patrick as a resource and as a very willing and literate resource, I think its going to make the show,” Chabon said. “It’s going to take it to another level. Just to have him participating in the way he participated? Amazing. He understands drama and he understands character and can bring to bear on that all of his experience doing Shakespeare and Beckett and everything in between. Plus he’s incredibly sweet and funny and charming and surprisingly humble and modest. He’s a wonderful collaborator and I can’t say enough about the amazing and unexpected benefit of the process.”

Evagora is repped by Ryan Hall

 

[sverre054]

Tonight's episode is directed by good old Two takes Frakes

 

[sverre054]

Wow they took a total underutilized character, that I could care less about, and made me feel bad for her. That was a gorgeous episode. The opening shot of the Discovery was fantastic, and something that has been missing, the beauty shots of the ships.

This episode was written by new co-showrunner Michelle Paradise, and directed by Jonathan Frakes. Hopefully they will work on many more episodes together.