The Star Trek Thread, V5.0

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Detailed review of Discovery season 2 (with spoilers) for those who do not want to pay for this garbage:

 
Michelle Paradise explaining the S2 ending:

Looking at the decision from the point of view of the characters, there is a moment in the finale where it becomes clear Control was neutralized. Why did they then stick with the plan to jump into the future?

Well, Control is really only neutralized at the moment that Burnham is already heading into the wormhole as Discovery is following behind her. At the moment Georgiou finally kills Leland, because he is essentially the face of Control—its controlling element if you will. So the moment that she does that, all of the ships that have been fighting in his armada essentially stop functioning and that is when Pike says “open fire” on all of them. By that point, they are already far away. Whether or not Control had been defeated in that moment or five minutes earlier, the pressing issue is this sphere. If Section 31 could have allowed Control to get to the point where it did, could there be anything else? That is one of the things they talk about in the final act of episode 14—we have to do things in a different way so an entity like Control isn’t developed with good intent but gets pushed past the point where it should be. With the sphere data accessible that would always have been a threat. So, once our heroes realized they needed to go into the future, they need to take that sphere data out of harm’s way and that is the only solution for making sure that this thing doesn’t happen again. And back in our present, which is the stuff they are talking about with the Starfleet Officer at the end there, is how do we make sure that we go in a different direction? How can we ensure that Section 31 goes in a different direction so this kind of thing doesn’t crop up again?

https://trekmovie.com/2019/04/25/in...-2-finale-and-going-beyond-canon-in-season-3/
 
JDragon said:
Michelle Paradise explaining the S2 ending:

Looking at the decision from the point of view of the characters, there is a moment in the finale where it becomes clear Control was neutralized. Why did they then stick with the plan to jump into the future?

Well, Control is really only neutralized at the moment that Burnham is already heading into the wormhole as Discovery is following behind her. At the moment Georgiou finally kills Leland, because he is essentially the face of Control—its controlling element if you will. So the moment that she does that, all of the ships that have been fighting in his armada essentially stop functioning and that is when Pike says “open fire” on all of them. By that point, they are already far away. Whether or not Control had been defeated in that moment or five minutes earlier, the pressing issue is this sphere. If Section 31 could have allowed Control to get to the point where it did, could there be anything else? That is one of the things they talk about in the final act of episode 14—we have to do things in a different way so an entity like Control isn’t developed with good intent but gets pushed past the point where it should be. With the sphere data accessible that would always have been a threat. So, once our heroes realized they needed to go into the future, they need to take that sphere data out of harm’s way and that is the only solution for making sure that this thing doesn’t happen again. And back in our present, which is the stuff they are talking about with the Starfleet Officer at the end there, is how do we make sure that we go in a different direction? How can we ensure that Section 31 goes in a different direction so this kind of thing doesn’t crop up again?

https://trekmovie.com/2019/04/25/in...-2-finale-and-going-beyond-canon-in-season-3/
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LOL at these acrobatics attempting to explain away some of the most ridiculously bad writing in the history of the franchise. No, there was no need to jump at that point. Once he was dead, how would he defend the data? He couldn't. Just destroy the damn data. There is no one to defend it. Problem solved!...well, except the problem that you apparently employ a screenwriting staff that lacks the talent and skill to compose a compelling narrative.

Even the directorial decisions indicate how lost the creatives are who control this show. The federation officer at the end who was questioning everyone was left faceless. He was dehumanized. They presented him, emblematic of the Federation leadership investigating what happened, as hostile, distant, corrupt bureaucrats who are as likely to be enemies to the good intentions of our crew as to be allies. This is a show that has always been optimistic about the capacity for reason and teamwork to prevail, epitomized by the Federation, and here they were treating the top brass of the federation like you'd expect the generals to be presented in some Guillermo Del Toro movie, or some other Hollywood crap that is relentlessly cynical about the military & its officers.

This is anathema to the Star Trek ethos. The Federation might not be perfect, but it represents Roddenberry's future ideal for our species. Throughout this show, and this season in particular, they were painted like a bunch of fearmongering, power-hungry, secretive goons mired by internal scheming and cabals struggling for greater control over Federation Command. This should have been the episode that left that all behind-- that it was Control all along, and that the Federation didn't make any mistakes that weren't wholly innocent: a road to hell paved with good intentions. Instead, what do they do? They present the Federation as an entity so untrustworthy that the entire crew must conspire to lie to it.
 
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Wow just got done watching The DS9 doc, what we left behind. Bar none the best documentary I've seen about any show or franchise. I Dont want to spoil it, so see this when you can. I am so glad the took the extra time to make all the DS9 scenes full HD. The opening scene of the film was one of the dominion war space battles, and it looked stunning. I really hope CBS will give us DS9 in HD someday. I know they fully supported the project, and let them use the original 35mm film, and let them use the CBS facilities. They are hinting that CBS decided to rescan all the original 35mm film into digital, so it at the ready if they decide to tackle the HD release.
 
sverre054 said:
Wow just got done watching The DS9 doc, what we left behind. Bar none the best documentary I've seen about any show or franchise. I Dont want to spoil it, so see this when you can. I am so glad the took the extra time to make all the DS9 scenes full HD. The opening scene of the film was one of the dominion war space battles, and it looked stunning. I really hope CBS will give us DS9 in HD someday. I know they fully supported the project, and let them use the original 35mm film, and let them use the CBS facilities. They are hinting that CBS decided to rescan all the original 35mm film into digital, so it at the ready if they decide to tackle the HD release.
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I know I would pay real money to see that.
 
JDragon said:
I know I would pay real money to see that.
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They show you the writers breaking down episode one of season 8, and it was pretty cool to see how TV writers actually make an episode. It made me really want a season 8! Too bad Avery Brooks has pretty much left public life. I think he may have something wrong with him, which is sad.
 
sverre054 said:
They show you the writers breaking down episode one of season 8, and it was pretty cool to see how TV writers actually make an episode. It made me really want a season 8! Too bad Avery Brooks has pretty much left public life. I think he may have something wrong with him, which is sad.
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I think they could still do an animated season 8 and use the available actors for voices.
 
JDragon said:
I think they could still do an animated season 8 and use the available actors for voices.
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That's how it is in the doc. All animated comic book style. It all took place 20 years actors, so the actors could actually do it.
 
fonzob1 said:
Avengers: End Game is going to pull more money than anything in history, so getting rid of the big screen is a hard sell.
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True, but Star Trek is not Avengers. It just doesn't work as a pure action flick, JJTrek tried and failed.

I agree with you though that no studio executive would make such a conscious decision.
 
Btw I just finished the first comic of Star Trek: Year Five and really enjoyed it. Reading it works fantastic on the Kindle App and 2.99 is fair.
 
JDragon said:
True, but Star Trek is not Avengers. It just doesn't work as a pure action flick, JJTrek tried and failed.

I agree with you though that no studio executive would make such a conscious decision.
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That isn't a true statement. Star Trek (2009) did well at the box office. The sequels didn't do well because they were at worst garbage and at best controversial.
 
fonzob1 said:
That isn't a true statement. Star Trek (2009) did well at the box office. The sequels didn't do well because they were at worst garbage and at best controversial.
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Yes, the 2009 did do well. It was a well-done movie, and it had the novelty effect. But the other two did not.
 
fonzob1 said:
That isn't a true statement. Star Trek (2009) did well at the box office. The sequels didn't do well because they were at worst garbage and at best controversial.
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2009 did the best out of the 3, but all the JJverse movies had one major issue. They didn't make much money. They were very expensive movies, and then they were given massive marketing budgets. The first 2 made money, but not enough money.

Trek movies don't need to be these super expensive summer blockbusters. Look at the original movies. ST: The motion picture, was the most expensive film ever made at the time. It looked gorgeous, and was pretty revolutionary special effects wise, but it was long and boring. Wrath of Khan was only made, because they made it for little money, with a unknown director. They had a great story, and made it more like an extended episode. Each of those later TOS crew movies, did pretty well for the studio, because they made 5-10 times there budget. The Trekkie and sci fi fans will always see a star trek movie, but to have legs, they need to be well reviewed, and have good word of mouth.
 
sverre054 said:
2009 did the best out of the 3, but all the JJverse movies had one major issue. They didn't make much money. They were very expensive movies, and then they were given massive marketing budgets. The first 2 made money, but not enough money.

Trek movies don't need to be these super expensive summer blockbusters. Look at the original movies. ST: The motion picture, was the most expensive film ever made at the time. It looked gorgeous, and was pretty revolutionary special effects wise, but it was long and boring. Wrath of Khan was only made, because they made it for little money, with a unknown director. They had a great story, and made it more like an extended episode. Each of those later TOS crew movies, did pretty well for the studio, because they made 5-10 times there budget. The Trekkie and sci fi fans will always see a star trek movie, but to have legs, they need to be well reviewed, and have good word of mouth.
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Star Trek films have mostly been bad, but the success of 2009 was enough to carry the franchise through two more films. The point is that the earning potential of films will always be greater than the earning potential of television shows.
 
fonzob1 said:
That isn't a true statement. Star Trek (2009) did well at the box office. The sequels didn't do well because they were at worst garbage and at best controversial.
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Yeah, but the first film in a reboot is going to get more eyes due to curiosity from the long established base. The fact the sequel didn't do as well indicates neither the mainstream nor Trekkies really wanted that for the movie. I enjoyed the one with Khan the most until the ridiculous, cheap, fake death for Kirk. I don't think any can be called "garbage". Still, I agree with Dragon the reason they haven't been embraced is because Trek isn't supposed to be an action blockbuster vehicle, and it's just dumb they did that to the films.

Now they've done it to Discovery, and predictably, the show is terrible with a few outstanding episodes (the majority of them directed by Jonathan Frakes).

It isn't an accident that, hands down, the best 15 minutes of Star Trek: Discovery outside the opening monologue by T'Kuvma is the "Short Trek" called "Calypso". Not a single action sequence. It's fantastic.
 
fonzob1 said:
Star Trek films have mostly been bad, but the success of 2009 was enough to carry the franchise through two more films. The point is that the earning potential of films will always be greater than the earning potential of television shows.
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I thought the opening Kelvin sequence was the strongest part of the jjverse films. The story telling afterwards wasn't very good. I'm still confused how Kirk went from a cadet to captain
 
Madmick said:
Yeah, but the first film in a reboot is going to get more eyes due to curiosity from the long established base. The fact the sequel didn't do as well indicates neither the mainstream nor Trekkies really wanted that for the movie. I enjoyed the one with Khan the most until the ridiculous, cheap, fake death for Kirk. I don't think any can be called "garbage". Still, I agree with Dragon the reason they haven't been embraced is because Trek isn't supposed to be an action blockbuster vehicle, and it's just dumb they did that to the films.

Now they've done it to Discovery, and predictably, the show is terrible with a few outstanding episodes (the majority of them directed by Jonathan Frakes).

It isn't an accident that, hands down, the best 15 minutes of Star Trek: Discovery outside the opening monologue by T'Kuvma is the "Short Trek" called "Calypso". Not a single action sequence. It's fantastic.
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That death scene was a cheap imitation. I also wasn't a fan of Cumberbatch as Khan.
 
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