The Sonnen sub defence myth

[method115]

he was subbed by a man with broken ribs.... not to mention all but 3 of his 11 loses were by submission he doesnt have sub defense...he manhandled marquadt tho because he was stronger plain and simple

Nate didn't lose that fight because he was out muscled he just didn't do anything. You can't sit there and just hope for a triangle and arm bar to be handed to you, you have to work for it. Nate would attempt subs like the guillotine but once he was on his back he just tried to defend.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

nate might be a 2 degree bb, but that doesnt mean that he has a good guard... sonnen could get subed by a purple belt with an active guard for that matter...nate certanly does not have one.

 

[Connoisseur]

Before the UFC I remember Chael being the guy that could stay in someones guard doing work and never get caught. Then his first figh tin the ufc he got caught.

I don't know what you're talking about, Chael got subbed by Forrest before he was ever in the UFC, by guess what... A TRIANGLE FROM GUARD.

Watch Chael Sonnen vs. Forrest Griffin Video | Break.com

Triangle @ around 3:15

He also got subbed by Horn w/ a guillotine from his back... LITERALLY RIGHT AFTER HE GOT OUT OF ONE. Round 2 starts at 10 minute mark

 

[thecheezman]

ok lets make this simple he is sloppy from the top and has poor sub defense is that better? everybody who subbed him arent top bjj guys(griffin when they fought) later in his career they are (maia for example) but not all of them

well heres some facts on that.

a. silva- bjj black belt

maia- the name is enough

filho- 10 mma wins by submission, placed in worlds at brown, black and 1st as purple

jeremy horn- 55 mma wins by submission

sobral- black belt and 18 mma wins by submission

griffin- 7 wins by submission, submitted current lhw champ shogun

prangley- 9 mma wins by submission


honestly, hes not getting submitted by scrubs. all have extensive bjj training and few are world known.

whether a few submission wins came after they beat chael still shows they arent slacks in bjj.

 

[brackis1]

well heres some facts on that.

a. silva- bjj black belt

maia- the name is enough

filho- 10 mma wins by submission, placed in worlds at brown, black and 1st as purple

jeremy horn- 55 mma wins by submission

sobral- black belt and 18 mma wins by submission

griffin- 7 wins by submission, submitted current lhw champ shogun

prangley- 9 mma wins by submission


honestly, hes not getting submitted by scrubs. all have extensive bjj training and few are world known.

whether a few submission wins came after they beat chael still shows they arent slacks in bjj.

And Leben doesn't have bad striking defense because he only has gotten finished by Anderson Silva?
Of course not. It's awful but he gets by.

Sonnen is the same way.
He has bad defense that costs him when he fights the good grapplers.
If you are trying to compete for world titles but keeping getting subbed, you have relatively poor submission defense.

 

[mindsouljah**]

well heres some facts on that.

a. silva- bjj black belt

maia- the name is enough

filho- 10 mma wins by submission, placed in worlds at brown, black and 1st as purple

jeremy horn- 55 mma wins by submission

sobral- black belt and 18 mma wins by submission

griffin- 7 wins by submission, submitted current lhw champ shogun

prangley- 9 mma wins by submission


honestly, hes not getting submitted by scrubs. all have extensive bjj training and few are world known.

whether a few submission wins came after they beat chael still shows they arent slacks in bjj.

so what are you saying? did i call these guys scrubs? did i even call chael one? styles makes match ups and chael plays right into a grapplers strengths. if u dont want to call it poor sub defense then we can call it a flaw in his sloppy gnp that keeps him getting subbed...from guard.....

 

[TheIronGiraffe]

My only point is you're a douche and read a lot of posts about people you hate. You definitely a candidate for a life transplant.

Haha...my only point is you're a dousche. Best argument ever

 

[redaxe]

well heres some facts on that.

a. silva- bjj black belt

maia- the name is enough

filho- 10 mma wins by submission, placed in worlds at brown, black and 1st as purple

jeremy horn- 55 mma wins by submission

sobral- black belt and 18 mma wins by submission

griffin- 7 wins by submission, submitted current lhw champ shogun

prangley- 9 mma wins by submission


honestly, hes not getting submitted by scrubs. all have extensive bjj training and few are world known.

whether a few submission wins came after they beat chael still shows they arent slacks in bjj.

The thing is, that is exactly the caliber of grappler that is fighting in the UFC. Chael Sonnen's submission defense is not good enough to hang with them, and he gets submitted. Nothing else to it.

 

[thegreenblender]

Only a moron would think he has bad sub defense. It's been already stated, but let's review one more time kids:

Sonnen is a GnP guy, through and through. He works almost exclusively from guard. So he has to spend more time defending submissions than 90% of fighters.

Sonnen has only recently been submitted by very good BJJ guys. Not shameful losses, but losses to lower profile submission guys occurred YEARS ago (Griffin, Horn, Sobral).

Once more, as someone stated, considering Sonnen's fighting style, the best chance to beat him is by sub. It shouldn't be a shocker that when he's lost, it was by sub. It's not like his opponent's had any other option--they were working for it the whole match, and recently only the best have succeeded.