The Sonnen sub defence myth

Sonnen almost beat Silva, but Marquardt also almost guillotined Sonnen. It cuts both ways.
 
You guys realize this thread is going nowhere right? The guy's an obvious Sonnen fan no matter what point is made.
 
nni said:
Ok. Let's see.


Yes, 8 losses by submission. 5 of those were >4 years ago. Do you understand the concept of fighters improving?

You don't understand grappling if you think he dominated Marquardt because he is stronger and not because of his elite wrestling.


This is not true, as shown by the fact that he stayed in Anderson's guard for 4 1/2 rounds before being submitted, Marquardt's and Okami's for most of the fight without being submitted.

Yes, a long time ago he lost to non top guys. You know, when he wasn't a top fighter.


Who are you referring to? Later in his career he lost to Paulo Filho, Demian Maia and Anderson Silva.
Click to expand...

his wrestling and strength beat nate sorry for leaving that out..thats the only point you made...if u keep losing by sub u havent improved sorry. fan or not his defense cant be improved if he keeps being beat by submission.
 
nni said:
He sat in Anderson's guard for +20 mins without ever being in clear danger. Only towards the end, when he was tired and cut, did Anderson managed to sink in the sub.

He manhandled Marquardt who is a 2nd degree bjj blackbelt, staying in his guard for a lot of the fight.

Clearly the guy has learnt a lot of sub defence over the past few years. He trash talks bjj, but if he didn't train it he wouldn't be able to dominate legit black belts the way he does.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I agree, his sub defense is probably better than most give him credit for. But Silva was sitting in guard and his movement was hampered by having an injured rib with Sonnen laying on it. Silva also seemingly had a heelhook and a kimura at one point but let them go. And Marquardt may be a 2nd degree BB but Filho,Silva and Maia are way,way better. Marquardt's guard was pathetic.
 
xcydal said:
Really? Maia and Filho aren't top bjj guys?

He also withstood the gaurds of Marquardt (blackbelt) and Miller (blackbelt, got his belt even faster than Maia).

Saying he has no sub defence is retarded. He also defended the triangle Silva put him in, he just forgot to cover the counter to his defence.
Click to expand...

thank you for not reading anything i wrote before u hit quote...the guys u named arent the only guys who subbed him which is what i said........
 
MickCollins said:
I agree, his sub defense is probably better than most give him credit for. But Silva was sitting in guard and his movement was hampered by having an injured rib with Sonnen laying on it. Silva also seemingly had a heelhook and a kimura at one point but let them go. And Marquardt may be a 2nd degree BB but Filho,Silva and Maia are way,way better. Marquardt's guard was pathetic.
Click to expand...

qft..also TS why do u keep bringing uo okami when he doesnt do bjj last time i checked he was a wrestling kickboxer
 
nni said:
When you and mindsouljah are the ones posting on it, it can hardly be considered "going".
Click to expand...

im still waiting on you to make a competent point instead rumbling off like a nuthugger.. or was this some kind of sonnen cheerleader thread and you just want to express your love for him? because u are yet to make a point at all. saying he is only being beat by high level bjj guys via sub and then countering my point of he hasnt and here are the guys who did sub him and arent high level bjj at the time, that doesnt matter i mean now isnt a point its being a blind nuthugger. and again for the record i respect the guy but u havent made a point yet

so how about this: maybe saying he doesnt have any sub defense is a little hard for your god of all grappling mind to handle and process so how about I meet you half way? by saying maybe his gnp is just to sloppy and he leaves himself open to guys with grappling credentials and he isnt well verse in "teh bjj" which he hates so much so thats his excuse to losing to guys by sub because thats the "ONLY AND MINOR" hole in his godly game...how about that?

And since i am here give me a good example of how his sub defense improved if any at all in any fight he has been in since the first time he was subbed i can wait because im sure since his sack is firmly in your mouth you already know this.
 
Last edited:
mindsouljah said:
im still waiting on you to make a competent point instead rumbling off like a nuthugger.. or was this some kind of sonnen cheerleader thread and you just want to express your love for him? because u are yet to make a point at all. saying he is only being beat by high level bjj guys via sub and then countering my point of he hasnt and here are the guys who did sub him and arent high level bjj at the time, that doesnt matter i mean now isnt a point its being a blind nuthugger. and again for the record i respect the guy but u havent made a point yet

so how about this: maybe saying he doesnt have any sub defense is a little hard for your god of all grappling mind to handle and process so how about I meet you half way? by saying maybe his gnp is just to sloppy and he leaves himself open to guys with grappling credentials and he isnt well verse in "teh bjj" which he hates so much so thats his excuse to losing to guys by sub because thats the "ONLY AND MINOR" hole in his godly game...how about that?

And since i am here give me a good example of how his sub defense improved if any at all in any fight he has been in since the first time he was subbed i can wait because im sure since his sack is firmly in your mouth you already know this.
Click to expand...
I have no idea why you think I'm a Sonnen fan. I'm not. I started this thread because I keep hearing people talk about his poor sub defence, when he's improved it by leaps and bounds. Many years ago it was obviously crap. Nowadays only a few elite bjjers can submit him. He can even spend most of the fight in a legit blackbelt's guard like Miller and Marquardt without being submitted.

Why do you keep saying I'm not making a point? The above is the point I was making. I'm not sure if you're trolling or just simple. Your response to a post (#14) I made refuting all your arguments was:
his wrestling and strength beat nate sorry for leaving that out..thats the only point you made...if u keep losing by sub u havent improved sorry. fan or not his defense cant be improved if he keeps being beat by submission.
Click to expand...
How can you quote a post with multiple points and say that's the only point I made? So, either trolling or simple.
 
To me there is a diference between being good at defending subs and escaping them. Sub defense means you stop it before your caught in it.

Sonnen is really good at escaping them but not defending them. One of the first things about being in soemones guard is both arms in or out. Watch sonnens fight with Paulo. He was constantly getting caught with one in an one out and having to cut his other arm back in. And in the end it caused his loss. Same thing with Silva.

I like Sonnen, But I was cringing the whole fight watching how he left his arms out.
 
krait said:
To me there is a diference between being good at defending subs and escaping them. Sub defense means you stop it before your caught in it.

Sonnen is really good at escaping them but not defending them. One of the first things about being in soemones guard is both arms in or out. Watch sonnens fight with Paulo. He was constantly getting caught with one in an one out and having to cut his other arm back in. And in the end it caused his loss. Same thing with Silva.

I like Sonnen, But I was cringing the whole fight watching how he left his arms out.
Click to expand...
Good point. Although defence would also include knowing the counters to the submissions, which it seemed like he only did to a point (getting out of the triangle choke, but not the armbar).
 
krait said:
To me there is a diference between being good at defending subs and escaping them. Sub defense means you stop it before your caught in it.

Sonnen is really good at escaping them but not defending them. One of the first things about being in soemones guard is both arms in or out. Watch sonnens fight with Paulo. He was constantly getting caught with one in an one out and having to cut his other arm back in. And in the end it caused his loss. Same thing with Silva.

I like Sonnen, But I was cringing the whole fight watching how he left his arms out.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I thought that Sonnen came of worse in the fight with Marquadt. Sonnen was constantly being hit with elbows and his face was a mess, Sonnens strikes from the ground seem to be very weak.

I think the problem is his game plan. He wants to be in the persons guard, he doesn't want to progress his position. He wants to hit with whatever strikes he can, no matter how weak to look good on the score cards. The thing is that when you throw so many strikes like that, he is bound to expose himself to a triangle eventually.

I believe its naive to think he doesn't train with guys with very good jiu jitsu, I doubt he works on any submissions, just practising not exposing himself. The problem is that with his game plan, he will eventually expose himself to a submission.
 
mindsouljah said:
then please make your point because i clearly made mine. i have respect for him but forrest griffin and others werent black belts when they subbed him blah blah etc.. regardless how you or i feel about this guy it doesnt change the fact that clearly his weak point in his game is sub defense.. how many more times will he have to be tapped out for you to see that?
Click to expand...

My only point is you're a douche and read a lot of posts about people you hate. You definitely a candidate for a life transplant.
 
sonnen got caught by a 100 milles telegraph triangle from a guy with fuked up rib, that was beat up for 5 rounds, and still couldnt get out of it.... YES HIS SUB DEFENSE SUCKS! AS is no Damian maia, AS is no paulo filho, AS is no jacare, AS is no bibiano, AS is no Roger Gracie, AS is no braulio estima bjj level, his bjj isnt top notch, yes he is a bb, and probably a pretty good one, but far from the eilite... and that was a sloppy triangle... soonen should become a democrat and start doing the "gay" thing if he ever wanst to be the champ.
 
I think people assume that because he gets beat with subs. But considering his style it makes sense that if he looses it's going to be due to subs
 
why don't you just post this shit thread on f2?

it is not like there weren't 100 of them already.

i mean, we are not really talking any technical shit, just having a keyboard pissing contest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,696
Messages
55,435,449
Members
174,774
Latest member
kilgorevontrouty

Share this page

Back
Top