The revenge of Judo and Sambo supremacy over amateur wrestling

[TheMaster]

For years the narrative, borne out by results at the time was that amateur wrestling be it freestyle, Greco or folkstyle was the best grappling base.
Khabib, Islam and Khamzat have totally crushed that using Judo and Sambo to dominate amateur wrestlers like never before at the most elite levels of the sport.

It's a new era of grappling evolution of the sport once again

 

[HHJ]

I mean... these guys mix the judo with the wrestling, its still wrestling, Its all grappling. It's just that the guys who only wrestle are not used to the way these guys chain the other stuff together.

 

[TheMaster]

I mean... these guys mix the judo with the wrestling, its still wrestling, Its all grappling. It's just that the guys who only wrestle are not used to the way these guys chain the other stuff together.

Its grappling not 'wrestling'. But yeah its about mixing it up its always been like that its just that amateur wrestling is now the additional element not the base for the new era of these elite grapplers.

 

[Pain4Pain]

Fedor, Karo and others were around that mixed the Judo well with wrestling. Really nothing unusual given that sambo guys have influences of judo and freestyle in their techniques, and often cross train them.

 

[gilbert_mma]

Khamzat comes from freestyle wrestling

 

[TheMaster]

Khamzat comes from freestyle wrestling

His base is training in Chechnya which is more like Sambo.
He competed formally in freestyle as an adult in Sweden but that was not his base it was the Chechen style

 

[duke_droese]

What are you talking about lol.

Their base is freestyle wrestling. Clubs all over the world will add the coaches personal favourite moves from Judo into their classes. That's why it's called freestyle.

Sambo is just amateur MMA in a gi and headgear.

 

[Iroh]

Chimaev's base is freestyle wrestling, not Sambo or Judo.

 

[TheMaster]

What are you talking about lol.

Their base is freestyle wrestling. Clubs all over the world will add the coaches personal favourite moves from Judo into their classes. That's why it's called freestyle.

Sambo is just amateur MMA in a gi and headgear.

Lol, it's grappling its not the same 'wrestling' you find them practicing in freestyle tournaments internationally. Khamzat has astonishingly low level freestyle credentials.

Khabib had no frestyle credentials only Sambo

 

[Iroh]

His base is training in Chechnya which is more like Sambo.
He competed formally in freestyle as an adult in Sweden but that was not his base it was the Chechen style

He was third in the Russian junior nationals in freestyle.

 

[Iroh]

l Khamzat has astonishingly low level freestyle credentials.

Because he couldn't compete internationally due to citizenship issues.

 

[TheGreenMachine]

For those unaware, Sambo is actually just Judo with a slightly tweaked ruleset. The founder of Sambo was originally a Judoka who learned everything he knew from the Kodokan in Japan. Later, some wrestling techniques were added to Sambo, although Judo always had wrestling techniques itself (its just a form of jacket wrestling which have been around for hundreds of years). The creation of Sambo also had a lot to do with Russia wanting to separate the art from its Japanese roots and make it distinctly "Soviet" at the time.

The reason I mention all that is because most people referred to as Sambo grapplers are really Judoka, or have trained in both. Leg grabs in Judo are set to make a comeback soon too, so the popularity of Judo in the U.S. should grow some more and hopefully attract more talent. But Judo has always been a great style for MMA, it's just needed some tweaks. The main reason you don't see it as often in MMA is because unlike BJJ, most Judoka are trying to make the Olympics. Their goal isn't to go into MMA. There's also a lucrative career after the Olympics if they can do fairly well. With wresting in America, there isn't much after the Olympics, or even college wrestling. That's why you see more American wrestlers in MMA than Judoka. But both are efficient styles for MMA.

Fedor, Karo and others were around that mixed the Judo well with wrestling. Really nothing unusual given that sambo guys have influences of judo and freestyle in their techniques, and often cross train them.

Fedor was actually way more of a Judoka than he ever was a wrestler or Samboist. He medaled in the Russian Judo Federation National Championships two years in a row in 1998 and 1999. He didn't really compete until 2002, 2005 and 2007 when he did the Sambo World Championships.

Actually, most Sambo guys in Eastern block countries are just failed Judoka. Judo has the deepest pool of competitors of any martial art in the world with the Olympics and its other competitions. When those guys can't make a country team for Judo, they end up going to sport Sambo or combat Sambo because the talent pool is so much lower.

Sambo is just amateur MMA in a gi and headgear.

That's incorrect. That's combat Sambo. Sport Sambo does not involve strikes and is basically Judo but with tweaked rules and clothing.

 

[TheMaster]

The reason I mention all that is because most people referred to as Sambo grapplers are really Judoka, or have trained in both. Leg grabs in Judo are set to make a comeback soon too, so the popularity of Judo in the U.S. should grow some more and hopefully attract more talent. But Judo has always been a great style for MMA, it's just needed some tweaks. The main reason you don't see it as often in MMA is because unlike BJJ, most Judoka are trying to make the Olympics. Their goal isn't to go into MMA. There's also a lucrative career after the Olympics if they can do fairly well. With wresting in America, there isn't much after the Olympics, or even college wrestling. That's why you see more American wrestlers in MMA than Judoka. But both are efficient styles for MMA.

Agreed. The motivations for Judoka to get into MMA and the way the sport is trained just isn't geared towards this otherwise they would be dominating much more.

Judo has the deepest pool of competitors of any martial art in the world with the Olympics and its other competitions.

Yes

 

[Hank Grill]

We need a modern day Karo again loaded to the gills on painkillers. UFC needs to step it up.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Khamzat's takedowns have always looked much more reminiscent to wrestling in my opinion than anything seen in Sambo or Judo.

 

[User9992]

For years the narrative, borne out by results at the time was that amateur wrestling be it freestyle, Greco or folkstyle was the best grappling base.
Khamzat, Khabib, Islam have totally crushed that using Judo and Sambo to dominate amateur wrestlers like never before at the most elite levels of the sport.

It's a new era of grappling evolution of the sport once again

Khamzat is mostly pure freestyle wrestler. Khabib trained freestyle wrestling since he been able to walk.

 

[User9992]

His base is training in Chechnya which is more like Sambo.
He competed formally in freestyle as an adult in Sweden but that was not his base it was the Chechen style

Khamzat is is mostly a freestyle wrestler. Nothing 'sambo' about him. Even Khabib's style is more of FS wrestler. Kavkaz region have freestyle wrestling culture... Dagestan, Ossetia, Chechnya etc. Sambo isn't that popular there.

Fedor on other hand was a pure Judo/Sambo dude.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

My 9yr old son does free-style a few months of the year alongside folk-style for the remainder of the year

Neither Judo or Sambo is being taught

You might find some similar TDs blended across all the grappling arts but these are all different rule-set arts


The truth is, in MMA you don’t need to be an otherworldly wrestler, just a good one. And also one that can adapt quickly to submissions and submission positional awareness in grappling exchanges

Diego Sanchez, Mighty Mouse, GSP, hell even Volk. You never would go on and on about their wrestling pedigree background. They can wrestle for MMA with anyone in their days

 

[Nathan LaMontagne]

For those unaware, Sambo is actually just Judo with a slightly tweaked ruleset. The founder of Sambo was originally a Judoka who learned everything he knew from the Kodokan in Japan. Later, some wrestling techniques were added to Sambo, although Judo always had wrestling techniques itself (its just a form of jacket wrestling which have been around for hundreds of years). The creation of Sambo also had a lot to do with Russia wanting to separate the art from its Japanese roots and make it distinctly "Soviet" at the time.

The reason I mention all that is because most people referred to as Sambo grapplers are really Judoka, or have trained in both. Leg grabs in Judo are set to make a comeback soon too, so the popularity of Judo in the U.S. should grow some more and hopefully attract more talent. But Judo has always been a great style for MMA, it's just needed some tweaks. The main reason you don't see it as often in MMA is because unlike BJJ, most Judoka are trying to make the Olympics. Their goal isn't to go into MMA. There's also a lucrative career after the Olympics if they can do fairly well. With wresting in America, there isn't much after the Olympics, or even college wrestling. That's why you see more American wrestlers in MMA than Judoka. But both are efficient styles for MMA.



Fedor was actually way more of a Judoka than he ever was a wrestler or Samboist. He medaled in the Russian Judo Federation National Championships two years in a row in 1998 and 1999. He didn't really compete until 2002, 2005 and 2007 when he did the Sambo World Championships.

Actually, most Sambo guys in Eastern block countries are just failed Judoka. Judo has the deepest pool of competitors of any martial art in the world with the Olympics and its other competitions. When those guys can't make a country team for Judo, they end up going to sport Sambo or combat Sambo because the talent pool is so much lower.


That's incorrect. That's combat Sambo. Sport Sambo does not involve strikes and is basically Judo but with tweaked rules and clothing.

Someone that knows their damn history.

Fact after fact after fact after fact after fact.


This should be stickied in every Judo related thread.

Thank you.

 

[blaseblase]

For years the narrative, borne out by results at the time was that amateur wrestling be it freestyle, Greco or folkstyle was the best grappling base.
Khamzat, Khabib, Islam have totally crushed that using Judo and Sambo to dominate amateur wrestlers like never before at the most elite levels of the sport.

It's a new era of grappling evolution of the sport once again

Where are you getting Judo from? Khamzat's base is freestyle wrestling. Islam freestyle wrestling and combat sambo. Khabib is combat sambo.