THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)

[second sight]

lol. at you being so stupid you still have no clue what the first and most relevant point of the Mueller Mandate was and that makes you think my comments are laughable.

Here it is for you...

Robert S. Mueller III is appointed t() serve as Specia] Counsel for the United States

Department of Justice.
(b)

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI... including:
(i)

any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; ...


Mueller absolutely found all sorts of "links" and "coordination" between the Russian gov't and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and Trump himself.

That is fact. They lied about but he found them out.

There is no one Trumpster who will bet me at any odds that i cannot prove that. I offer an account bet if I lose versus 1 month Av and Sig control if I win but still not one of you will take it. Becuase you are just trolling while knowing you are wrong.

please refrain from calling anyone stupid, I've never read a post of yours that was even close to on point....ever

 

[andnowweknow]

Well the people I’m referencing are those who avoided Trump trying to step in on the investigation and the investigation got to continue and got publicly released so.... that would imply more the point I made then a “what happens if”. For the flack Barr is getting, the report is out now. We can argue how he interpreted the report and waited awhile to release it but the report did get out.

The institutions, agreed, are doing their job. My biggest problem with Trump isn't that he's president for another 2 years or even that he'll perhaps win a 2nd term...he's shown that you can basically (if willing, most aren't) weaponize lying constantly, corrupting discourse.

He's frankly too self serving in an immediate way to be that dangerous. What happens when someone far more calculating driven by more than the pursuit of money employs his brazen approach? We're basically being shown that Congress is impotent with the tax thing. The law couldn't be any clearer that they have a right to see his taxes, yet Trump basically just says sorry, don't care about the law.

 

[waiguoren]

According to Gates, by the late summer of 2016, the Trump Campaign was planning a press strategy, a communications campaign, and messaging based on the possible release of Clinton emails by WikiLeaks.

^^^This is collusion.

I think you're getting confused here. Those "Clinton e-mails" were never released, and I don't think we have any evidence that Wikileaks has ever been in possession of them. I believe that phrase refers to the e-mails that Clinton deleted from her private server, not the DNC e-mails. If I'm right, this means the Trump campaign had no idea what material Wikileaks had (they were planning for an event that never occurred).

Furthermore, if for some strange reason the phrase does refer to the DNC e-mails, then the above is not "collusion" under any common definition. By late summer 2016 you, I, and anyone else who pays attention to US politics were aware that more leaks of DNC e-mails were forthcoming. That's because Wikileaks had already performed a partial DNC leak on 22 July, and also because Assange was hinting at it strongly. It is not "collusion" to plan for an event that we all knew was coming and to tailor one's messaging accordingly. You might find it ethically questionable but it doesn't meet any definition of collusion that I have seen, legal or colloquial.

 

[WTF2008]

You are looking in the wrong place.

it is the Republicans in the Senate who are at issue. As long as they are disregarding any semblance of being a co equal branch of gov't with responsibilities that are not attached to just defending the POTUS regardless then impeachment is pointless.

Trump said he could shoot someone and get away with it and he was not joking. He was referring to his voter base and the the impotent Republicans in power and how he could get away with anything and they would not hold him to account as long as they thought they did not lose the die hards votes.

He was saying that other people were saying that about him. This is the telephone game of the media and you eat it up.

 

[rokzilla]

The institutions, agreed, are doing their job. My biggest problem with Trump isn't that he's president for another 2 years or even that he'll perhaps win a 2nd term...he's shown that you can basically (if willing, most aren't) weaponize lying constantly, corrupting discourse.

He's frankly to self serving in an immediate way to be that dangerous. What happens when someone far more calculating driven by more than the pursuit of money employs his brazen approach. We're basically being shown that Congress is impotent with the tax thing. The law couldn't be any clearer that they have a right to see his taxes, yet Trump basically just says sorry, don't care about the law.

But but but taxes!!

 

[waiguoren]

What happens when he fires all those people? Someone like Barr inserted isn't exactly a pessimism reducer.

The AG is part of the Executive Branch. Trump's power to fire him and other DOJ employees is absolute. He can also pardon anyone for any reason without legal repercussion. See: President Bush's firing of Caspar Weinberger and President Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

Checks on executive authority include: presidential elections, impeachment, veto overrides, media criticism, injunction.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I'm not ignoring you, though I may soon begin doing so if you remain unresponsive. As I have already replied to you several times, Mueller's report states, repeatedly and explicitly, that the evidence does not establish that there was any "coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump."

Mueller did not find collusion because there was no collusion and thus he charged exactly no one with collusion. Whether that is unsuccessful depends on your point of view, but he did successfully come to the proper conclusion that the evidence simply did not hold up the collusion claims. It was certainly wasteful though, because the flimsiness of the collusion theory was clear from the beginning. It's why the Trumptards have been so relaxed and jocular with their "This is it!" type responses for so long. Because a quick perusal of the evidence makes it obvious that the collusion theory was, as Van Jones described it years back, "a nothingburger".

lol at me being unresponsive when you keep doing everything to duck this...

Stop ignoring this...

Robert S. Mueller III is appointed t() serve as Special] Counsel for the United States

Department of Justice.
(b)

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confined by then-FBI... including:
(i)

any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; ...


The above is what the Mueller Investigation that you are saying was unsuccessful and waste was constituted to find. Its the first point.

I do not require you trying to frame what Mueller was supposed to investigate any more than you need me to frame it as the words above are clear and indisputable.There is nothing about them that needs you to paraphrase.

Do you stand by saying the Mueller Investigation was unsuccessful and a waste and will you bet me. The entire onus will be on me to prove my case or you win. You don't need to prove anything.

You claimed the Mueller investigation was a waste and failed. I have quoted specifically from the Mueller Mandate, the REASON THE INVESTIGATION WAS CONSTITUTED, and can prove he addressed and proved those reasons with great success.

You want to ignore that and instead frame the investigation as failed for something that is not in the mandate but that you want to frame as the purpose and then say he failed,

If what you say was the purpose then quote in the Mueller Mandate doc as I have done.

You are not going to ignore the actual mandate and frame this as you wish and then claim he failed based on him not achieving what you have framed when I have quoted the actual TEXT and can prove he achieved it.

You know you are a troll and liar and that is why you won't take the bet with me. One where I take 100% of the onus to establish and prove my case or you win. I even offer you odds. 12:1 on the sig and Av bet or account bet for me versus one month for you. But you won't take the bet as you know you are wrong and are just trolling.

 

[Lead]

The institutions, agreed, are doing their job. My biggest problem with Trump isn't that he's president for another 2 years or even that he'll perhaps win a 2nd term...he's shown that you can basically (if willing, most aren't) weaponize lying constantly, corrupting discourse.

He's frankly to self serving in an immediate way to be that dangerous. What happens when someone far more calculating driven by more than the pursuit of money employs his brazen approach. We're basically being shown that Congress is impotent with the tax thing. The law couldn't be any clearer that they have a right to see his taxes, yet Trump basically just says sorry, don't care about the law.

Some of this is a judgement call about long term consequences which I’m not entirely sold yet on cause I don’t know if Trump has transformed politics or just deviated from it. I still feel that regular politicians still feel held to the previous rules and many notice there is somewhat of an outsider exemption trump gets from voters and even DC with some of his actions.

I haven’t read up completely on the tax request yet but I believe that is still ongoing and it’s still likely the returns will be released. I believe the IRS official has to refer to Barr on how to proceed and Barr would have to say they are allowed to request the documents. Sounds like stalling but again, I don’t have all the most up to date information on this.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I’ve actually seen a more optimistic view from this term. Not only do I think the balances in power are working in pushing against each other but the Mueller report seemed to present multiple instances where people working for the president pushed back against him and disregarded orders (interfering or ending the Mueller investigation) which would’ve made me more pessimistic. Our institutions are working and even when they have cracks, people seem to step up.

This is true, but every replacement for those people is worse, and I think the system is getting stressed.

 

[andnowweknow]

The AG is part of the Executive Branch. Trump's power to fire him and other DOJ employees is absolute. He can also pardon anyone for any reason without legal repercussion. See: President Bush's firing of Caspar Weinberger and President Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

Checks on executive authority include: presidential elections, impeachment, veto overrides, media criticism, injunction.

I know Barr is part of the executive, he's still not performing his job properly. That's the problem with Trump and more to my point, he'll skirt the boundaries of legality, and employ obviously unfit and dishonest people like Barr. Even you have to agree Barr was completely misleading prior to release of the report and acted far more politically than is normal or appropriate for his position. If Holder had acted 1/10 as ridiculous as Barr has the right would be losing their shit like the left is now, but to the power of ten.

 

[waiguoren]

Even you have to agree Barr was completely misleading prior to release of the report and acted far more politically than is normal or appropriate for his position. If Holder had acted 1/10 as ridiculous as Barr has the right would be losing their shit like the left is now, but to the power of ten.

I don't see that at all. I think Barr has been fine so far and Holder was a disaster.

 

[MikeMcMann]

He was saying that other people were saying that about him. This is the telephone game of the media and you eat it up.

The full context does not help Trump nor does it counter my point.

"They say I have the most loyal people -- did you ever see that? -- where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters," Trump said, illustrating his point by pulling his fingers into a gun shape. "Okay? It's like incredible."

This maintains he believes his people (and the Senate) have no morals or spine and he is laughing at them for that. He is laughing that he enjoys that type of brainless support.

 

[andnowweknow]

I don't see that at all. I think Barr has been fine so far and Holder was a disaster.

 

[bobgeese]

The full context does not help Trump nor does it counter my point.

"They say I have the most loyal people -- did you ever see that? -- where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters," Trump said, illustrating his point by pulling his fingers into a gun shape. "Okay? It's like incredible."

This maintains he believes his people (and the Senate) have no morals or spine and he is laughing at them for that. He is laughing that he enjoys that type of brainless support.

Someone let McCan know Barr did in fact have the last word.

Thanks.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

lol at me being unresponsive when you keep doing everything to duck this...



You claimed the Mueller investigation was a waste and failed. I have quoted specifically from the Mueller Mandate, the REASON THE INVESTIGATION WAS CONSTITUTED, and can prove he addressed and proved those reasons with great success.

You want to ignore that and instead frame the investigation as failed for something that is not in the mandate but that you want to frame as the purpose and then say he failed,

1. Yes, you are being unresponsive. For example, here, where you claim I ignored your quote from Mueller's mandate, which I have already addressed several times, most recently here (I quote part of my response due to my well known concern for brevity):

...Mueller's report states, repeatedly and explicitly, that the evidence does not establish that there was any "coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump."

Please note that my response includes a quotation of the section of Mueller's mandate you wanted me to address so that you would know I was addressing it. I mistakenly thought this would help you connect the dots.

2. I don't mind that you continually insult me and my cognitive abilities, and I have some patience for your ham-fisted style of communication in which you clamor (in caps!) for people to address points they have addressed prior, often repeatedly. But the combination is a bit taxing. You should either do better or be kinder.

 

[Darkballs]

And literally none were related to collusion, which was the putative focus of the investigation.

Of course they were. Lying about meetings with the same people that the trump administration were actively seeking support from, certainly relates to the collusion.

Hell, the largest portion that Barr has chosen to redact deals directly with that.

 

[Lead]

This is true, but every replacement for those people is worse, and I think the system is getting stressed.

I can’t speak for the future but you can at least see here that even the administration itself presents opposition to Trump when they believe it’s needed. The staff is constantly being shuffled so it could be different now but I tend to think that is undermining his term as it remains unorganized as time continues on. There also may be some leverage from congressional seats as well which he can’t fire.

 

[Darkballs]

People say they don't like womens MMA, but I sure am enjoying watching @IngaVovchanchyn 2v1 Hack V savage and @Darkballs

You know it's a shitty day for trump when you guys have to start tagging people and claiming victory. It's ok boy, I didn't figure you'd have the courage to weigh in for yourself.

 

[SBJJ]

Lol at those dumping on Barr. The fucking guy did nothing wrong. He didn't even have to release the report.

And the report was exactly what he said it would be.

PREDICTION!!!!!!!! If Mueller testifies to Congress that Trump did not collude and in his opinion did not obstruct justice the media, hack politicians and the most extreme WR posters will turn their CT Venom on him.

The most laughable part of this is that all these people that screamed about how Trump did not respect the process, AG, Deputy AG & DOJ are all acting like Trump on steroids

 

[jrams]

The institutions, agreed, are doing their job. My biggest problem with Trump isn't that he's president for another 2 years or even that he'll perhaps win a 2nd term...he's shown that you can basically (if willing, most aren't) weaponize lying constantly, corrupting discourse.

He's frankly too self serving in an immediate way to be that dangerous. What happens when someone far more calculating driven by more than the pursuit of money employs his brazen approach? We're basically being shown that Congress is impotent with the tax thing. The law couldn't be any clearer that they have a right to see his taxes, yet Trump basically just says sorry, don't care about the law

Yeah, just imagine the fallout of the government brazenly lying to the public.

images unrelated