THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)

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Quipling

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Current big news:

  • A redacted version of the Mueller Report is now available here. I haven't read it yet, and neither have you. (I'll take a look this evening). I'll post page numbers to different sections of interest later so people know where to find things like the Trump Tower meeting (and why Mueller came to the conclusions that he did).
Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR Lounge thread.
Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above

Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.

Major events so far:

  • A redacted copy of thetMueller Report has been published.
  • Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. Manafort pleaded guilty, agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors, and then lied to them.
  • Roger Stone has been charged with Obstruction, Lying to Investigators, and Witness Tampering. This is in connection with an investigation into his contacts with WikiLeaks and the dissemination of info from the DNC and Clinton hacks. He is now subject to a gag order.
  • Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations, which he claims to have committed at Trump's direction to influence the election. Cohen cooperated with federal prosecutors and received a 3-year sentence.
  • Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org. CFO, has agreed to immunity in exchange for cooperating with federal prosecutors
  • Rick Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
  • George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied. Papadopoulos is now accusing Mifsud of being a deep state plant on Twitter.
  • Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
  • 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them. There is also a separate 12 count indictment targeting GRU officers
  • An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
  • Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
  • Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen. Who has pleaded guilty and offered to fully cooperate.
  • Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft
  • Bruce Ohr, of dossier fame, has been working to obtain information from Russian oligarchs since 2014.
  • Documents relating to Manafort's guilty plea implicate Tony Podesta. Tony Podesta is the brother of Clinton's campaign advisor, John Podesta. His former firm, which is now cooperating with the probe, worked for Manafort in Ukraine.
Dumb talking points:
Why hasn't anybody been charged with "collusion"?
Collusion is a catch-all term. It's not the name of a specific crime.

So where is the Collusion?
The Mueller investigation is about any links between "the Russian Government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump". It's beyond question that there were links, so the issue was whether those links amounted to collusion.

The Barr summary concludes that, although the Russian government stole intelligence in order to interfere with the election, and reached out to members of the Trump campaign, the Trump campaign did not assist the Russian government in that interference-it merely reaped the benefits of it. Per Barr's analysis, this passive acceptance stops short of collusion.

These are "process crimes", so they don't really count.
First, there isn't a judge in this country who believes that things like obstruction and witness tampering aren't serious crimes. The distinction between "process" crimes and other felonies is meaningless. Second, a significant amount of charged conduct goes well beyond "process." Third, there is definitely a great deal of uncharged or sealed conduct that goes beyond "process"-as shown by the failed redaction in Manafort's recent filing.

 
Thread Predictions:

lots of low-value repetition of talking points from people who won't read a paragraph of the document.
 
Well, we’ve had 32 threads of democrats embarrassing themselves.

Why not one more.

<Goldie11>
 
From Attorney General Barr:

Finally, the Special Counsel investigated a number of “links” or “contacts” between Trump Campaign officials and individuals connected with the Russian government during the 2016 presidential campaign. After reviewing those contacts,
the Special Counsel did not find any conspiracy to violate U.S. law involving Russia-linked persons and any persons associated with the Trump campaign.

<WellThere>
 
Read the bottom of page 44. Assange shooting hard on Hillary.
 
Thread Predictions:

lots of low-value repetition of talking points from people who won't read a paragraph of the document.

While I can appreciate your attempt to try to get out ahead of the headlines, you're too late, it's already over.

This is a win for President Trump.
 
From Attorney General Barr:

Finally, the Special Counsel investigated a number of “links” or “contacts” between Trump Campaign officials and individuals connected with the Russian government during the 2016 presidential campaign. After reviewing those contacts,
the Special Counsel did not find any conspiracy to violate U.S. law involving Russia-linked persons and any persons associated with the Trump campaign.

<WellThere>
I accept the findings but still wonder why there were all those meetings and denials that they ever took place. Why would they lie so much?
It's very confusing.
 
Serious question. is asking your cabinet members and lawyers to do things they think are clearly illegal but they don't do it an impeachable offense?
 
Serious question. is asking your cabinet members and lawyers to do things they think are clearly illegal but they don't do it an impeachable offense?
Of course. Trump 100% engaged in obstruction of justice. Just because his flunkies defied him, doesn't get him off the hook.
 
Of course. Trump 100% engaged in obstruction of justice. Just because his flunkies defied him, doesn't get him off the hook.
Still confident Trump will be removed from office before 31 December 2019?
 
Still confident Trump will be removed from office before 31 December 2019?
It's either that, or the country is completely fucked. So, I either win the bet, or it's irrelevant to me because we're at a point of full autocracy.
 
Thread Title should have been

"Redactions, I'm Fucked"
 
You are comparing Trump to a black person? Interesting

I see your point and what I’m saying is Trump does not get the benefit of the doubt.

I'm comparing two scenarios where the plausibly innocent believe they are fu***** because the conclusion has already been pre-written, in their minds. You know exactly what I'm pointing out but it's easier to deflect than acknowledge I'm right.

Show me some evidence or additional substance that "I'm fu****" was tied to a specific wrongdoing and I'll be right alongside you. But we both know you don't have that, and therefore, I'm not willing to draw conclusions based on "benefit of the doubt", or lack thereof. Don't be surprised that when you're asked to substantiate and you can't, you get called out. That's fair in my book.
 
Mueller report, page 9:

While the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign, the evidence was not sufficient to support criminal charges. Among other things, the evidence was not sufficient to charge any Campaign official as an unregistered agent of the Russian government or other Russian principal. And our evidence about the June 9, 2016 meeting and Wikileaks's releases of hacked materials was not sufficient to charge a criminal campaign violation. Further, the evidence was not sufficient to charge that any member of the Trump campaign conspired with representatives of the Russian government to interfere in the 2016 election.


Link to the full Mueller report: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/18/us/politics/mueller-report-document.html

@kpt018
@andnowweknow
@BarryDillon
 
It's either that, or the country is completely fucked. So, I either win the bet, or it's irrelevant to me because we're at a point of full autocracy.
Trolling 101: be less obvious.
 
SBJJ said:
There was a grand jury here bubba

You really got to stop calling other posters stupid.
WTF? You think a Grand Jury determines innocence of gulty.

LMAOF. No they do not.

[URL='https://forums.sherdog.com/members/waiguoren.232154/' said:
waiguoren[/URL]]Think about what you are writing. There is literally no presidential campaign, historical or current, in which a responsible prosecutor (or any person) could say "I am certain that the head of the campaign committed no crimes!" That would be reckless and irresponsible.

You are desperate to strip this of context.

Mueller has said that he 'has no power to prosecute due to DOJ policy and therefore would not prejudice the review by saying 'I think he is guilty of obstruction' but can't do anything about it'.

It is perfectly consistent within the context you ar3e desperate to strip for Mueller to say 'look there is substantial evidence here of potential obstruction but you, Congress need to make that determination as I am prohibited from doing it'.

That, in no should be spun as Mueller freeing Trump of that issue.
 
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