THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)

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Before you guys jump in and make it about Liberals vs Conservatives please just take the time to read the post. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ATTACKING TRUMP OR PARTY LINES.

I think part of the reports conclusion is getting lost in this battle to politicize the findings. I think there is another angle we need to look at. That is not to overshadow that Trump was not charged. The report shows there was not enough evidence to indict Trump but could not clear him.

But what I do want to talk about is the fact that the Mueller report says the Russians did, in fact, interfere with our election. The report states that while Trump hasn't been found to have collided, the Russians did infiltrate our political system and media to influence the election. This is a huge deal! One of the global superpowers literally took the liberty of coming into the UNITED STATES election and trying to swing it one way. I'm not saying Trump would have lost if they didn't do this, but I want people to understand the severity of what Russia has done here. This is a borderline declaration for WAR. Letting them get away with this and still cozying up to Putin shows total weakness by the US. It's incredible we would be OK and take this sitting down.

I just thought while everyone is trying to twist the report in a political light, Meullers conclusion that Russia influenced our election is getting overlooked. I'm a liberal bu I wish we could just look at the facts instead of attacking each other:

1. The report found there was not enough evidence to charge Trump with colluding with Russia, but also could not fully clear him of any wrongdoing.

2. Russia did interfere with the US election.
 
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Rod Rosenstein said after mueller indicted the Russian groups that no Americans were involved and no votes were changed
 
National Acrobat said:
What should the Trump campaign have done?
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The Trump campaign isn't the only presidential campaign to be approached by a foreign power making similar offers.

Historically, other campaigns approached in this manner have informed US intelligence agencies and rebuffed the foreign power outright instead of arranging a meeting.
 
second sight said:
Rod Rosenstein said after mueller indicted the Russian groups that no Americans were involved and no votes were changed
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That's what I literally said in the thread. Don't comment if your not going to even take the time to read the post.
 
Someone will have to fill me in on this - what did the Russians purportedly do beyond exposing Hillary/DNC corruption? Because if that’s it, malicious intentions aside, they effectively did us a favor.
 
Gunny said:
Someone will have to fill me in on this - what did the Russians purportedly do beyond exposing Hillary/DNC corruption? Because if that’s it, malicious intentions aside, they effectively did us a favor.
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The point is they took it upon themselves to try and covertly influence our election. That's a serious crime
 
WarDosAnjos said:
Before you guys jump in and make it about Liberals vs Conservatives please just take the time to read the post. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ATTACKING TRUMP OR PARTY LINES.

I think part of the reports conclusion is getting lost in this battle to politicize the findings. I think there is another angle we need to look at. That is not to overshadow the importance of Trump's exoneration. The report shows Trump didn't collude with Russia. We have been wasting resources and time trying to discover if he was.

But what I do want to talk about is the fact that the Mueller report says the Russians did, in fact, interfere with our election. The report states that while Trump had nothing to do with it, the Russians did infiltrate our political system and media to influence the election. This is a huge deal! One of the global superpowers literally took the liberty of coming into the UNITED STATES election and trying to swing it one way. I'm not saying Trump would have lost if they didn't do this, but I want people to understand the severity of what Russia has done here. This is a borderline declaration for WAR. Letting them get away with this and still cozying up to Putin shows total weakness by the US. It's incredible we would be OK and take this sitting down.

I just thought while everyone is trying to twist the report in a political light, Meullers conclusion that Russia influenced our election is getting overlooked. I'm a liberal bu I wish we could just look at the facts instead of attacking each other:

1. The report found Donald Trump did not collude with Russia.

2. Russia did interfere with the US election.
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The first charge of the Mueller report was to investigate Russian interference. The second was potential collusion into Russian interference. A lot of people have talked about the Russian interference. I have posts discussing it that are two years old. Here's a thread from a year ago discussing it:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...an-burgers-russia-investigation-v-13.3712727/

second sight said:
Rod Rosenstein said after mueller indicted the Russian groups that no Americans were involved and no votes were changed
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This is not what he said, but we've been over that before.
 
BKMMAFAN said:
People in the justice dep't and/or prosecutors don't refer to wiretaps and informants in a criminal investigation as spies. That's how the term is being used here.

My point is that Barr's doing so shows his goal is to protect Trump (who's been using this term for years). His going along with the term spy is telling to me. He's loyal to Trump, unlike Sessions (who I very much believe would have clarified this wasn't spying).
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Yup. If it was 'spying' were the investigators with court ordered warrants 'spies'?

Is that how the head of the DOJ refers to his prosecutors and others when they go to court with info gained via lawful surveillance?

All spying involves surveillance.

Not all surveillance involves the concept of spying.
 
Quipling said:
The Trump campaign isn't the only presidential campaign to be approached by a foreign power making similar offers.

Historically, other campaigns approached in this manner have informed US intelligence agencies and rebuffed the foreign power outright instead of arranging a meeting.
Click to expand...


Did the Clinton campaign notify authorities that they were actually paying foreign agents for info?
 
Quipling said:
The Trump campaign isn't the only presidential campaign to be approached by a foreign power making similar offers.

Historically, other campaigns approached in this manner have informed US intelligence agencies and rebuffed the foreign power outright instead of arranging a meeting.
Click to expand...

Whether its true or not that other campaigns always rebuff foreign governments (I highly doubt Israel or Saudi Arabia have always been turned down by campaigns) this seems like the result that the Trump campaign wasn't initially intended to be a serious campaign and was filled with novices who weren't aware of expected decorum.

Even given that they still didn't collude, even if by dumb luck not knowing any better.
 
panamaican said:
So I assume we're all reading the report.
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<36>

Just the Introduction is extremely informative.

What stood out to me, so far, is that while the Trump campaign didn't actively conspire with the Russians, they were aware of, and expected to benefit from, the Russians intended course of action.

That is the narrowest exculpation ever, a true "letter of the law" situation. Johnny did not kill his wife or conspire with his lover to kill his wife. However, Johnny knew that his lover was going to kill his wife and expected to benefit from her death and his lover expected that she would also benefit from the death of Johnny's wife. However, Johnny is not guilty of murder or of conspiring to commit murder since Johnny has no duty to proactively interfere, report, stop, etc. his lover from committing that crime.
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I think that reading is being generous to the Trump campaign, as the report stresses the lack of access to people and information, between all the destruction of documents and pleading the fifth that happened. It's clear that the investigation was unable to reach a conclusion that is sufficiently representative of the facts.
 
Anyone shocked by Russia trying to interfere is actually quite funny seeing as how its been done since WWII ended and the Cold War began, and we have been doing it to them.

Its what nations do to each other. Are you aware of how many times Britain did it from the end of the Revolutionary war until after the Civil War? Almost every election...At the end of the War of 1812, almost the entire Wig Party was put on trial for TREASON for colluding with the British and even working with them helping them invade.

Should we be worried? Of course. And steps should be taken to prevent it...but being shocked by this is more shocking than them doing it.
 
panamaican said:
What stood out to me, so far, is that while the Trump campaign didn't actively conspire with the Russians, they were aware of, and expected to benefit from, the Russians intended course of action.
Click to expand...

I read the same introduction that you claim to have read. Nowhere does that introduction claim that the Trump campaign was aware of the DNC/DCCC hacking in advance. Nowhere does that introduction claim that the Trump campaign was aware the the IRA would shift its social media trolling to focus on the election come mid-2016.
 
MikeMcMann said:
Yup. If it was 'spying' were the investigators with court ordered warrants 'spies'?

Is that how the head of the DOJ refers to his prosecutors and others when they go to court with info gained via lawful surveillance?

All spying involves surveillance.

Not all surveillance involves the concept of spying.
Click to expand...

What will you say if there was no warrant to embed Halper into the campaign
 
SBJJ said:
What you just posted is ACTUAL obstruction. Demanding a witness lie to an agent/prosecutor.

Simply screaming someone should be fired is not obstruction.

You are getting lost
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Trump is the boss of numerous individuals under his direct employ who he gave instructions to obstruct and it only did not happen as they refused him.
 
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