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THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)
- Thread starter Quipling
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My prediction: 33rd installment with nothing but wasted time being accomplished.
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I'm reading what the NYT and others are writing about this, and I have yet to see what from the report is really going to damage Trump.
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Imagine being this crazy and delusional ^
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Trump was most terrified of the gov't looking into his other dealings. The Campaign Finance, Trump Org, Trump Campaign, Trump Foundation and all those are still ongoing.
Both Rudy and Dershowitz agree with that being the biggest threat to Trump as well.
So he is, by no means, out of the woods. That said I am sure Barr is quietly trying to extend his influence into as many of those offices as he has any authority over to try and shut them down or choke them out. You can bet on that.
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Mueller report, page 10:
[T]he investigation established that interactions between Russian ambassador Kislyak and Trump Campaign officials both at the candidate's April 2016 foreign policy speech in Washington, D.C., and during the week of the Republican National Convention were brief, public, and non-substantive. And the investigation did not establish that one Campaign official's efforts to dilute a portion of the Republican Party platform on providing assistance to Ukraine were undertaken at the behest of candidate Trump or Russia. The investigation also did not establish that a meeting between Kislyak and Sessions in September 2016 at Sessions's Senate office included any more than a passing mention of the presidential campaign.
Link to the full Mueller report: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/18/us/politics/mueller-report-document.html
@kpt018
@andnowweknow
@BarryDillon
@Joe
Oh geez, I remember when certain posters in this thread cited the Kislyak meetings as clear evidence of collusion. Also I remember that @Jack V Savage was convinced that the Republican platform was changed at the behest of Russia.
[T]he investigation established that interactions between Russian ambassador Kislyak and Trump Campaign officials both at the candidate's April 2016 foreign policy speech in Washington, D.C., and during the week of the Republican National Convention were brief, public, and non-substantive. And the investigation did not establish that one Campaign official's efforts to dilute a portion of the Republican Party platform on providing assistance to Ukraine were undertaken at the behest of candidate Trump or Russia. The investigation also did not establish that a meeting between Kislyak and Sessions in September 2016 at Sessions's Senate office included any more than a passing mention of the presidential campaign.
Link to the full Mueller report: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/18/us/politics/mueller-report-document.html
@kpt018
@andnowweknow
@BarryDillon
@Joe
Oh geez, I remember when certain posters in this thread cited the Kislyak meetings as clear evidence of collusion. Also I remember that @Jack V Savage was convinced that the Republican platform was changed at the behest of Russia.
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His best angle is and will always be the hot dog gifs. I understand he is not allowed to use them as much anymore but he could find a way to sneak them in here and there. His replies with words are mostly terrible and way too obvious.
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So three years of Hillary supporters, the main stream media, and sour Democrats wasting America’s time trying to malign a sitting president. What an absolute laughingstock they all are now. Even now watching them try to scramble for talking points to hang onto and angles to spin.
I’ve never seen a narrative get so thoroughly destroyed.
The alt-left has failed. This is not a victory for Trump. There was nothing that he had to win here. It was all just a witchhunt that wound up being defeated by the truth. The radical Democrats tried every dirty trick in the book and got exposed even worse than when their candidate was rejected back in 2016.
This is a victory for America.
I’ve never seen a narrative get so thoroughly destroyed.
The alt-left has failed. This is not a victory for Trump. There was nothing that he had to win here. It was all just a witchhunt that wound up being defeated by the truth. The radical Democrats tried every dirty trick in the book and got exposed even worse than when their candidate was rejected back in 2016.
This is a victory for America.
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Well, we’ve had 32 threads of democrats embarrassing themselves.
Why not one more.
You're a wizard and a shiner.
This is gonna be a long afternoon!
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Christ. You seriously need to read shit better. A grand jury was opened. I said nothing about guilt or innocence.
I said it evidence does not result in indictments or trials the defendant is essentially cleared. Then you brought up no trial and that he could be found guilty later.
Dude. A person is innocent until proven otherwise.
Everyone in this forum could scream you are a child lover. Photographs can be produced of you next to kids. Photos can show you walking by preschools. None of that equals guilt and you are not required to prove your innocence.
I understand you are not American (ignorant of taxes/electoral college/executive powers) but in the US a person does not have to prove their innocence
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Here is my prediction
This is it........
For this thread. We will see no V34.
This is it........
For this thread. We will see no V34.
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Really lusting for that pee action huh?
The second part of that footnote ends on
"Rtskhildze said he was told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen"
Page 240 of the PDF for those interested
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Okay let me try again since I was a dumbass for creating another thread....Keep forgetting that @Quipling is the Thread starter for these things (my bad, btw) :
Mueller report shows probe did not find collusion evidence, reveals Trump efforts to sideline key players
After two years of suspense, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report was released into Washington’s partisan scrum Thursday showing investigators did not find evidence of collusion between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia – as Attorney General Bill Barr declared last month – but revealing an array of controversial actions by the president that were examined as part of the investigation’s obstruction inquiry.
This included President Trump allegedly telling his White House counsel in June 2017 to inform the acting attorney general that Mueller had conflicts of interest and "must be removed." The report said Trump also fumed over the original appointment -- lamenting it would mean the "end of his presidency" -- first telling then-DOJ leader Jeff Sessions he should resign, and later trying to get Session to take back control of the probe.
Mueller ultimately did not reach a conclusion on whether the president's conduct amounted to obstruction, stating: "[W]hile this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
But even though Barr's DOJ determined they did not have evidence to pursue such a case, the details in the report only fueled Democrats' mounting calls to not only see the unredacted report but have Mueller testify.
"This is exactly why we need to hear directly from Special Counsel Mueller and receive the full, unredacted report with the underlying evidence," House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler tweeted, highlighting that section.
Trump and his legal team, though, declared victory upon the release of the report.
"No collusion, no obstruction," Trump said.
The swift reactions indicated the release of the report is only likely to fuel, not quiet, the long-raging debate in Washington over the Russia probe and serve as fodder going into the 2020 election year.
As stated in Barr’s summary last month and reiterated again at a press conference earlier Thursday morning, though, the special counsel did not find clear evidence of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and Russia.
“[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” the report said, while also saying there were "links" between the two.
“While the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was not sufficient to support criminal charges. Among other things, the evidence was not sufficient to charge any Campaign official as an unregistered agent of the Russian government or other Russian principal,” the special counsel report stated.
The version of the more than 400-page report that the Justice Department made public Thursday includes redactions, consistent with Barr’s plan to black out portions of the document—including grand jury material, information the intelligence community believes would reveal intelligence sources and methods, any material that could interfere with ongoing prosecutions and information that could implicate the privacy or reputational interests of “peripheral players.”
The redactions in the report were color-coded, labeled with the reasoning behind each redaction, with categories including "grand jury material," "personal privacy," "investigative technique;" and "harm to ongoing matter."
The report, meanwhile, went in depth on the obstruction of justice question, despite the lack of a decision on that front. In Barr's summary to Congress last month, he said he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein found the evidence was “not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.”
The report itself noted that they obtained evidence about the president’s “actions and intent,” and that presented “difficult issues that would need to be resolved” if they were making a traditional judgment.
The report looked at 10 episodes related to the allegations of obstruction of justice, including:
“The campaign's response to reports about Russian support for Trump; Conduct involving FBI Director Comey and Michael Flynn; The President's reaction to the continuing Russia investigation; The President's termination of Comey; The appointment of a Special Counsel and efforts to remove him; Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel's investigation; Efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence; Further efforts to have the Attorney General take control of the investigation; and Conduct toward Flynn, Manafort, [REDACTED]; conduct involving Michael Cohen.”
The report revealed that the president reacted to the news a special counsel had been appointed by telling his advisers that it was “the end of his presidency,” and demanding that Sessions resign. Once Sessions submitted his resignation, the president did not accept it.
The report also details Trump's alleged effort to have Mueller sidelined, amid reports at the time that special counsel’s office was investigating the president for obstruction of justice. The report details a dramatic moment where the president's White House counsel apparently rejected the push.
“On June 17, 2017, the president called [White House Counsel Don] McGahn at home and directed him to call the Acting Attorney General and say that the Special Counsel had conflicts of interest and must be removed. McGahn did not carry out the direction, however, deciding that he would resign rather than trigger what he regarded as a potential Saturday Night Massacre,” the report stated, referencing the Watergate scandal.
The report also revealed that when the media reported of the president’s request for McGahn to have Mueller removed, the president directed White House officials “to tell McGahn to dispute the story and create a record stating he had not been ordered to have the special counsel removed.”
“McGahn refused to back away from what he remembered happening,” the report said.
The report went on to explain that two days after the initial request to McGahn, the president made another attempt to “affect the course of the Russia investigation.”
“On June 19, 2017, the president met one-on-one in the Oval Office with his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, a trusted advisor outside the government, and dictated a message for Lewandowski to deliver to Sessions,” the report said.
“The message said that Sessions should publicly announce that, notwithstanding his recusal from the Russia investigation, the investigation was ‘very unfair’ to the president, the president had done nothing wrong, and Sessions planned to meet with the Special Counsel and ‘let [him] move forward with investigating election meddling for future elections.’”
Lewandowski, according to the report, said he understood what the president wanted Sessions to do.
“Lewandowski did not want to deliver the president’s message personally,” the report said, “so he asked senior White House official Rick Dearborn to deliver it to Sessions.”
Dearborn ultimately did not follow through with the task.
The report also said “substantial evidence indicates that the catalyst” for the decision to fire FBI Director James Comey was his “unwillingness to publicly state that the president was not personally under investigation.” But the report said the evidence “does not establish that the termination of Comey was designed to cover up a conspiracy between the Trump Campaign and Russia.”
The report stated that while the areas the special counsel investigated “involved discrete acts, the overall pattern of the President’s conduct towards the investigations” shed light on the “nature” of his acts. The special counsel determined that the actions investigated are divided into “two phases,” which they said reflected “a possible shift in the President’s motives.”
The first phase was related to the firing of Comey. “During that time, the President had been repeatedly told he was not personally under investigation. Soon after the firing of Comey and the appointment of the Special Counsel, however, the President became aware that his own conduct was being investigated in an obstruction-of-justice inquiry,” the report said, adding that “at that point, the president engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”
The evidence detailed in the report related to allegations of obstruction of justice, though, is likely to come under intense scrutiny from congressional Democrats and could be used in their sweeping Trump-related investigations.
The president’s legal team, in anticipation of obstruction of justice claims in the report, has prepared their own report to counter the allegations.
“They assumed all along that there was going to be a finding of no collusion, so the rebuttal is about obstruction,” a source close to Trump’s legal team told Fox News. “They are preparing a rebuttal to presumed allegations which will be refuted.”
The special counsel wrote that they sought a voluntary interview with the president, but after more than a year of discussing the prospect of one, the president declined. The president did, though, agree to answer written questions on certain Russia-related topics. But according to the report, he “did not similarly agree to provide written answers to questions on obstruction topics or questions on events during the transition.”
Mueller’s team also said that, while they believed they had the “authority and legal justification” to do so, they decided not to issue a grand jury subpoena to obtain the president’s testimony.
>>> Well there's certainly stuff here for the Lef-TARDS to sink their teeth into in opposition to the POTUS but it's all Political at this point. <{chips}>
Mueller report shows probe did not find collusion evidence, reveals Trump efforts to sideline key players
After two years of suspense, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report was released into Washington’s partisan scrum Thursday showing investigators did not find evidence of collusion between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia – as Attorney General Bill Barr declared last month – but revealing an array of controversial actions by the president that were examined as part of the investigation’s obstruction inquiry.
This included President Trump allegedly telling his White House counsel in June 2017 to inform the acting attorney general that Mueller had conflicts of interest and "must be removed." The report said Trump also fumed over the original appointment -- lamenting it would mean the "end of his presidency" -- first telling then-DOJ leader Jeff Sessions he should resign, and later trying to get Session to take back control of the probe.
Mueller ultimately did not reach a conclusion on whether the president's conduct amounted to obstruction, stating: "[W]hile this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
But even though Barr's DOJ determined they did not have evidence to pursue such a case, the details in the report only fueled Democrats' mounting calls to not only see the unredacted report but have Mueller testify.
"This is exactly why we need to hear directly from Special Counsel Mueller and receive the full, unredacted report with the underlying evidence," House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler tweeted, highlighting that section.
Trump and his legal team, though, declared victory upon the release of the report.
"No collusion, no obstruction," Trump said.
The swift reactions indicated the release of the report is only likely to fuel, not quiet, the long-raging debate in Washington over the Russia probe and serve as fodder going into the 2020 election year.
As stated in Barr’s summary last month and reiterated again at a press conference earlier Thursday morning, though, the special counsel did not find clear evidence of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and Russia.
“[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” the report said, while also saying there were "links" between the two.
“While the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was not sufficient to support criminal charges. Among other things, the evidence was not sufficient to charge any Campaign official as an unregistered agent of the Russian government or other Russian principal,” the special counsel report stated.
The version of the more than 400-page report that the Justice Department made public Thursday includes redactions, consistent with Barr’s plan to black out portions of the document—including grand jury material, information the intelligence community believes would reveal intelligence sources and methods, any material that could interfere with ongoing prosecutions and information that could implicate the privacy or reputational interests of “peripheral players.”
The redactions in the report were color-coded, labeled with the reasoning behind each redaction, with categories including "grand jury material," "personal privacy," "investigative technique;" and "harm to ongoing matter."
The report, meanwhile, went in depth on the obstruction of justice question, despite the lack of a decision on that front. In Barr's summary to Congress last month, he said he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein found the evidence was “not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.”
The report itself noted that they obtained evidence about the president’s “actions and intent,” and that presented “difficult issues that would need to be resolved” if they were making a traditional judgment.
The report looked at 10 episodes related to the allegations of obstruction of justice, including:
“The campaign's response to reports about Russian support for Trump; Conduct involving FBI Director Comey and Michael Flynn; The President's reaction to the continuing Russia investigation; The President's termination of Comey; The appointment of a Special Counsel and efforts to remove him; Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel's investigation; Efforts to prevent public disclosure of evidence; Further efforts to have the Attorney General take control of the investigation; and Conduct toward Flynn, Manafort, [REDACTED]; conduct involving Michael Cohen.”
The report revealed that the president reacted to the news a special counsel had been appointed by telling his advisers that it was “the end of his presidency,” and demanding that Sessions resign. Once Sessions submitted his resignation, the president did not accept it.
The report also details Trump's alleged effort to have Mueller sidelined, amid reports at the time that special counsel’s office was investigating the president for obstruction of justice. The report details a dramatic moment where the president's White House counsel apparently rejected the push.
“On June 17, 2017, the president called [White House Counsel Don] McGahn at home and directed him to call the Acting Attorney General and say that the Special Counsel had conflicts of interest and must be removed. McGahn did not carry out the direction, however, deciding that he would resign rather than trigger what he regarded as a potential Saturday Night Massacre,” the report stated, referencing the Watergate scandal.
The report also revealed that when the media reported of the president’s request for McGahn to have Mueller removed, the president directed White House officials “to tell McGahn to dispute the story and create a record stating he had not been ordered to have the special counsel removed.”
“McGahn refused to back away from what he remembered happening,” the report said.
The report went on to explain that two days after the initial request to McGahn, the president made another attempt to “affect the course of the Russia investigation.”
“On June 19, 2017, the president met one-on-one in the Oval Office with his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, a trusted advisor outside the government, and dictated a message for Lewandowski to deliver to Sessions,” the report said.
“The message said that Sessions should publicly announce that, notwithstanding his recusal from the Russia investigation, the investigation was ‘very unfair’ to the president, the president had done nothing wrong, and Sessions planned to meet with the Special Counsel and ‘let [him] move forward with investigating election meddling for future elections.’”
Lewandowski, according to the report, said he understood what the president wanted Sessions to do.
“Lewandowski did not want to deliver the president’s message personally,” the report said, “so he asked senior White House official Rick Dearborn to deliver it to Sessions.”
Dearborn ultimately did not follow through with the task.
The report also said “substantial evidence indicates that the catalyst” for the decision to fire FBI Director James Comey was his “unwillingness to publicly state that the president was not personally under investigation.” But the report said the evidence “does not establish that the termination of Comey was designed to cover up a conspiracy between the Trump Campaign and Russia.”
The report stated that while the areas the special counsel investigated “involved discrete acts, the overall pattern of the President’s conduct towards the investigations” shed light on the “nature” of his acts. The special counsel determined that the actions investigated are divided into “two phases,” which they said reflected “a possible shift in the President’s motives.”
The first phase was related to the firing of Comey. “During that time, the President had been repeatedly told he was not personally under investigation. Soon after the firing of Comey and the appointment of the Special Counsel, however, the President became aware that his own conduct was being investigated in an obstruction-of-justice inquiry,” the report said, adding that “at that point, the president engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”
The evidence detailed in the report related to allegations of obstruction of justice, though, is likely to come under intense scrutiny from congressional Democrats and could be used in their sweeping Trump-related investigations.
The president’s legal team, in anticipation of obstruction of justice claims in the report, has prepared their own report to counter the allegations.
“They assumed all along that there was going to be a finding of no collusion, so the rebuttal is about obstruction,” a source close to Trump’s legal team told Fox News. “They are preparing a rebuttal to presumed allegations which will be refuted.”
The special counsel wrote that they sought a voluntary interview with the president, but after more than a year of discussing the prospect of one, the president declined. The president did, though, agree to answer written questions on certain Russia-related topics. But according to the report, he “did not similarly agree to provide written answers to questions on obstruction topics or questions on events during the transition.”
Mueller’s team also said that, while they believed they had the “authority and legal justification” to do so, they decided not to issue a grand jury subpoena to obtain the president’s testimony.
>>> Well there's certainly stuff here for the Lef-TARDS to sink their teeth into in opposition to the POTUS but it's all Political at this point. <{chips}>
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I almost feel bad for Democrats and Lefties. Mueller was gonna be the hero and save the nation. Media knew it, Hollywood knew it, Academics knew it, the Millennials knew it and then fight night happened...
So, that's twice now smug self-assurance hasn't worked out. Makes one wonder how 2020 will go....
So, that's twice now smug self-assurance hasn't worked out. Makes one wonder how 2020 will go....
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It's amazing how this report would be seriously damaging to any other administration in history but, seemingly because people have such low expectations of this one, it seems like a victory. They've lowered the bar to such a degree that they can't go under it.
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Because they're Politicians.
A Politician that doesn't lie isn't a Politician at all.
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Let's have a sig bet on this.
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Weird to see all the trumpers celebrating here. I mean, it's expected that no matter what they would ride trump's balls. But given that even the redacted report lists actions that are clearly impeachable, I wasn't expecting such an autistic victory dance.
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Naw man. Just because people could argue about the report forever, and I'm feeling real good about our Bernie bet. Keeping my eggs in that basket.
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