The Patterson Footage .....

[franklinstower]

There are a TON of frauds in any field that is paranormal related though. There are also some people asking serious questions.

 

[Kframe]

Lol says the guy refusing to read about that which he's disparaging. Comedy.

Its not credible because he refused to publish it in a real scientific journal. You say it has been published, but if that is the case why has no other credible anthropologist peer reviewed it?

 

[Deleted member 429137]

That article says WAY more than that man.

There are serious enough problems with peer review that you cant discount something JUST because its not peer reviewed.

I haven't read the proof in question and am not arguing for it. I do question how you can vehemently deny and mock the veracity of claims made in a work you haven't read though.

Why not.just read it and see? If you WONT read it then why come out so negatively about it? That seems unscientific to me.

I haven't come out negatively about it. All I've said is that she hasn't submitted herself to scientific scrutiny, which is the hallmark of science, and that she's indistinguishable from other cranks on the lunatic fringe.

Even if I did read it and thought she had amazing proof of bigfoot, the truth is that I'm not qualified to find flaws in her work. Scientific frauds are sometimes good enough to fool actual scientists for years before they are found out.

Even if I think she's got the most foolproof evidence, I'm no different than the most biased bigfoot crank. It hasn't gone through scientific scrutiny and hasn't been verified and accepted as evidence by people who know how to disprove it. I doubt anyone in this thread is qualified to confirm that her analysis is sound.

SO: even if I was absolutely, thoroughly convicned that she has bombshell work, I would still have to be posting in this thread that there is no evidence of bigfoot or the paranormal because this is one of those things that has to pass inspection by highly-learned people instead of people educated by youtube.

 

[franklinstower]

I haven't come out negatively about it. All I've said is that she hasn't submitted herself to scientific scrutiny, which is the hallmark of science, and that she's indistinguishable from other cranks on the lunatic fringe.

Even if I did read it and thought she had amazing proof of bigfoot, the truth is that I'm not qualified to find flaws in her work. Scientific frauds are sometimes good enough to fool actual scientists for years before they are found out.

Even if I think she's got the most foolproof evidence, I'm no different than the most biased bigfoot crank. It hasn't gone through scientific scrutiny and hasn't been verified and accepted as evidence by people who know how to disprove it. I doubt anyone in this thread is qualified to confirm that her analysis is sound.

SO: even if I was absolutely, thoroughly convicned that she has bombshell work, I would still have to be posting in this thread that there is no evidence of bigfoot or the paranormal because this is one of those things that has to pass inspection by highly-learned people instead of people educated by youtube.

That is a great post and very reasonable. I am in agreement with all of it. I do think you could understand some of a paper like that though -- there is a lot to be said about being an educated layman.

It is really your anger towards people on here that has me questioning your posts. You said yourself you have an interest in this subject. But you wont read ANYTHING on the subject that isn't peer reviewed AND you wont read a specific piece of material that someone on a thread you're interested in lists. Then what WILL you read?

If what I said is accurate then you are probably getting all or most of your info from secondary sources like debunking sites. I visit those also but if that's your primary source then you're not doing your own thinking and not really that.open minded.

 

[Tyrannosaurus rex]

With regards to the Bigfoot phenomena, actual reality doesn't support this statement. None of the scientists I've mentioned have been rewarded for their pursuit of the Sasquatch. Quite the opposite, actually. For example, Krantz lost grants and even had tenure delayed for sticking his neck out.



Is there a problem with you reading things on your own, outside of a chosen publication, and then drawing your own conclusions on the evidence provided? Or do you need specific journals and the majority of the scientific community on board before you can do such a thing? Just curious.

It seems to me that you have a bit of a problem relying on your own discernment of information, and take your cues in full from the peer review process - which you seem to view as infallible (Pro tip, it isn't - https://newrepublic.com/article/135921/science-suffering-peer-reviews-big-problems).

If that's not the case, and you're capable of considering information not presently blessed by your chosen priests and preachers, here's a paper written by Dr. Meldrum.

You'll obviously take issue with the publication, as it's been established to set up a forum for fringe topics. But try not to let that deter you in your attempts to give the paper itself, and the information provided therein, an objective assessment.

Midfoot Flexibility, Fossil Footprints, and Sasquatch Steps: New Perspectives on the Evolution of Bipedalism

http://www.scientificexploration.org/docs/18/jse_18_1_meldrum.pdf

What exactly in that publication is supposed to prove that Bigfoot is real? I don't see it. If the tracks are not real then everything in the article means nothing. And there is no evidence that the tracks are real. People can produce very well made fakes as far as I know. Also, some of the footprints in the article don't even look similar. Figure 5 and 9 for example look very different. At least to me.

 

[shanegotu11]

The truth is out there.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

That is a great post and very reasonable. I am in agreement with all of it. I do think you could understand some of a paper like that though -- there is a lot to be said about being an educated layman.

It is really your anger towards people on here that has me questioning your posts.

I do have an anger when I see the rise of the youtube-educated genius and its effects pouring into society from the internet. I am guilty there.

You said yourself you have an interest in this subject. But you wont read ANYTHING on the subject that isn't peer reviewed AND you wont read a specific piece of material that someone on a thread you're interested in lists. Then what WILL you read?

I constantly read complete bullshit from utter cranks because it's hilarious and basically that's 90% of what exists for a lot of subjects I'm interested in. I've posted some complete gibberish from conspiracy nuts here on Sherdog before. Abovetopsecret is my stomping grounds and I've had a few accounts on the bigger bigfoot forums (never kicked out, just wandered away and forgot my login information), but I also love reading topmindsofreddit and topmindsofyoutube.

What you've seen in this thread is me refusing to read the article Beargrounds was posting because it had nothing to do with the real point of discussion: that it doesn't matter if I read her article or not because she's avoiding scientific scrutiny. (And if you post the article again I will read it because I've been really curious all this time, but don't want to go back through the thread to find it.)

I love this stuff so much, you don't even know. But I hate illogical and irrational thinking because that has been responsible for the worst aspects of our history and humanity seems to be struggling and failing to climb out of it every single day.

If what I said is accurate then you are probably getting all or most of your info from secondary sources like debunking sites. I visit those also but if that's your primary source then you're not doing your own thinking and not really that.open minded.

no, that's not my primary source. Basically if something seems fishy to me and I can't figure it out I'll go track down people debunking it. More often than not, what they say makes more sense to me than the people being debunked. But I'm pretty well-read and can spot bullshit pretty well on my own (for a layman).

Biology is not my forte, though, so I have to research both sides on this topic pretty constantly.

 

[TheGumby]

So I'm interested. Any other videos of crazy things or other subjects that are crazy you enjoy?

 

[franklinstower]

I do have an anger when I see the rise of the youtube-educated genius and its effects pouring into society from the internet. I am guilty there.



I constantly read complete bullshit from utter cranks because it's hilarious and basically that's 90% of what exists for a lot of subjects I'm interested in. I've posted some complete gibberish from conspiracy nuts here on Sherdog before. Abovetopsecret is my stomping grounds and I've had a few accounts on the bigger bigfoot forums (never kicked out, just wandered away and forgot my login information), but I also love reading topmindsofreddit and topmindsofyoutube.

What you've seen in this thread is me refusing to read the article Beargrounds was posting because it had nothing to do with the real point of discussion: that it doesn't matter if I read her article or not because she's avoiding scientific scrutiny. (And if you post the article again I will read it because I've been really curious all this time, but don't want to go back through the thread to find it.)

I love this stuff so much, you don't even know. But I hate illogical and irrational thinking because that has been responsible for the worst aspects of our history and humanity seems to be struggling and failing to climb out of it every single day.



no, that's not my primary source. Basically if something seems fishy to me and I can't figure it out I'll go track down people debunking it. More often than not, what they say makes more sense to me than the people being debunked. But I'm pretty well-read and can spot bullshit pretty well on my own (for a layman).

Biology is not my forte, though, so I have to research both sides on this topic pretty constantly.

Solid post and I dont want to argue with you. The anger part makes the forum less enjoyable. Tons of what you post is very interesting and I am glad you are here.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Solid post and I dont want to argue with you. The anger part makes the forum less enjoyable. Tons of what you post is very interesting and I am glad you are here.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I will try to tone down the anger, but no promises. I think being interested in this stuff is like fucking the filthiest porn star on the planet: you've got to wear a condom. And rational thinking is like a condom that lets you safely enjoy so much of this wonderful madness.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

So I'm interested. Any other videos of crazy things or other subjects that are crazy you enjoy?

Are you asking someone specifically?

 

[franklinstower]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I will try to tone down the anger, but no promises. I think being interested in this stuff is like fucking the filthiest porn star on the planet: you've got to wear a condom. And rational thinking is like a condom that lets you safely enjoy so much of this wonderful madness.

I kind of lost interest in bigfoot because the further I looked into it the more it went towards the paranormal. Even Les Stroud who I trust stated that he had a psychic encounter with them once out in the woods. Other people on a bigfoot forum that I visit have ongoing telepathic communications with them over years of their life... Missing 411 stuff from David Paullides (I would LOVE to hear your take on his work man- seriously). If bigfoot is paranormal then I lose interest.

I am in a folkadelic band and because of that I started to do some research into Irish folk lore and folk tales and such. In reading these stories that are handed down generationally it is hard not to notice striking similarities between fairies, leprechauns, mermaids, changelings and such and MUCH of what pops up in the paranormal communities. Whatever it is-- it runs deep in the human psyche.

I cannot judge any particular account of these types of things but I am personally hard pressed to believe that its ALL lying or humans just totally hallucinating. I think there is something to it all.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

@bigfoot thought you might want to check this out, I found it going through my bookmarked websites.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22728014
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22728014

Ape-like feet 'found in study of museum visitors'

Scientists have discovered that about one in thirteen people have flexible ape-like feet.

A team studied the feet of 398 visitors to the Boston Museum of Science.

The results show differences in foot bone structure similar to those seen in fossils of a member of the human lineage from two million years ago.

It is hoped the research, published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, will establish how that creature moved.

Apes like the chimpanzee spend a lot of their time in trees, so their flexible feet are essential to grip branches and allow them to move around quickly - but how most of us ended up with more rigid feet remains unclear.

More info in the article.

We're trying to find bigfoot and it took us 100 000 years of humanity and 400 years of codified science to discover that 967 450 000 people have monkey feet. Can you imagine how this could have set back bigfoot research if science did recognize footprints found of a large, ape-like creature, which we ascribed to a juvenile sasquatch because they were about the size of a human... only to discover that they were actually human because we don't know shit about humans?

We might not be capable of finding bigfoot with science right now, tbh. There's still so much we don't know.

 

[Defanged]

"Impossible to duplicate"

Now imagine him in a monkey suit, shoulder pads and clown shoes.

He leg bend is not seen because it doesn't match up. Oh, Bob up there said in 2000 that he was paid $800 to wear the suit - which is a crazy amount even in modern times. He forgot that $800 back in 1967 was worth over $5000 in today's money. He's a liar !

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I kind of lost interest in bigfoot because the further I looked into it the more it went towards the paranormal. Even Les Stroud who I trust stated that he had a psychic encounter with them once out in the woods. Other people on a bigfoot forum that I visit have ongoing telepathic communications with them over years of their life... Missing 411 stuff from David Paullides (I would LOVE to hear your take on his work man- seriously). If bigfoot is paranormal then I lose interest.

Never heard of the guy. Will look into it.

I am in a folkadelic band and because of that I started to do some research into Irish folk lore and folk tales and such. In reading these stories that are handed down generationally it is hard not to notice striking similarities between fairies, leprechauns, mermaids, changelings and such and MUCH of what pops up in the paranormal communities. Whatever it is-- it runs deep in the human psyche.

I think the human brain has a tendency towards certain beliefs and perspective filters. Science has pretty much confirmed this.

I cannot judge any particular account of these types of things but I am personally hard pressed to believe that its ALL lying or humans just totally hallucinating. I think there is something to it all.

Psychology is an area I'm very well read in. It's possibly the only thing I'm interested in more than the paranormal/unknown/cryptozoology. Human beings are wired to mispercieve reality every hour of every day. It's hard to say people are lying or they're hallucinating because those words carry accusations and judgement, but mispercieving reality is literally what humans do. It's what we've always done and it only gets worse when more humans are involved.

 

[franklinstower]

@bigfoot thought you might want to check this out, I found it going through my bookmarked websites.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22728014




More info in the article.

We're trying to find bigfoot and it took us 100 000 years of humanity and 400 years of codified science to discover that 967 450 000 people have monkey feet. Can you imagine how this could have set back bigfoot research if science did recognize footprints found of a large, ape-like creature, which we ascribed to a juvenile sasquatch because they were about the size of a human... only to discover that they were actually human because we don't know shit about humans?

We might not be capable of finding bigfoot with science right now, tbh. There's still so much we don't know.

I have read accounts of so called juvenile bigfoot tracks that have described a mid tarsal break..... They looked just like human feet to me though.

 

[franklinstower]

Never heard of the guy. Will look into it.



I think the human brain has a tendency towards certain beliefs and perspective filters. Science has pretty much confirmed this.



Psychology is an area I'm very well read in. It's possibly the only thing I'm interested in more than the paranormal/unknown/cryptozoology. Human beings are wired to mispercieve reality every hour of every day. It's hard to say people are lying or they're hallucinating because those words carry accusations and judgement, but mispercieving reality is literally what humans do. It's what we've always done and it only gets worse when more humans are involved.

I see what your saying with the video but there is a massive difference between that video and a person out in the woods who sees a bigfoot walk into camp and wreck a truck! I know humans are unreliable but I also know if my friend tells me he saw an amazing beautifully shaped tree and gives me GPS coordinates -- I am going to see that tree when I go looking....

If humans were as unreliable as some debukers claim (not you man) I dont think we would survive....




Cant wait for your take on Paulides. At the very least it is a collection of really strange cases of disappearances. It is his work and the common denominators he descries that struck me so much while reading Irish Folk lore.

 

[00 Buck]

There are a TON of frauds in any field that is paranormal related though. There are also some people asking serious questions.

Yes, those healing crystals people.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I see what your saying with the video but there is a massive difference between that video and a person out in the woods who sees a bigfoot walk into camp and wreck a truck! I know humans are unreliable but I also know if my friend tells me he saw an amazing beautifully shaped tree and gives me GPS coordinates -- I am going to see that tree when I go looking....

If humans were as unreliable as some debukers claim (not you man) I dont think we would survive....

lol oddly enough, these misperceptions are survival mechanisms. to help us sort through the madness of the world.

Cant wait for your take on Paulides. At the very least it is a collection of really strange cases of disappearances. It is his work and the common denominators he descries that struck me so much while reading Irish Folk lore.

I'm actually going to watch Missing 411 right now while I work out. Looking forward to it.

 

[TheGumby]

Are you asking someone specifically?

Anyone