The Passing of the Libertarian Moment

[Islam Imamate]

tl;dr: The end of the Cold War and the rise of Donald Trump have left classical liberals without a political home.

Some interesting excerpts from the article:

Libertarian attitudes enjoy some political support: Nick Gillespie, a true-believing libertarian, insists even in the teeth of the current authoritarian ascendancy that we still are experiencing a national—yes!—“libertarian moment,” based on Gallup polling data finding more support for broadly libertarian political sensibilities (27 percent) than for any other single group: conservative, liberal, or populist.

But “libertarian” often means little more than “a person with right-leaning sensibilities who is embarrassed to be associated with the Republican Party.” (Hardly, these days, an indefensible position.) Libertarian sensibilities are popular because they enable the posture of above-it-all nonpartisanship, but libertarian policies, as Caplan and others have noted at length, are not very popular at all.

Here he argues that while certain factions of the old conservative alliance are at least getting something out of the rise of Trump, libertarians are basically getting the opposite of what they traditionally advocated for in Trump.

The Christian right was able to make its peace with Trump with relative ease, because it is moved almost exclusively by reactionary kulturkampf considerations. “But Hillary!” is all that Falwell and company need to hear, and they won’t even hold out for 30 pieces of silver. The Chamber of Commerce made peace, being as it is one of the conservative constituencies getting what it wants out of the Trump administration: tax cuts and regulatory reform. The hawks are getting what they want, too, lately: John Bolton in the White House and an extra $61 billion in military spending in the latest budget bill.

What are the libertarians getting? A man with Richard Nixon’s character but not his patriotism, an advocate of Reagan’s drug war and Mussolini’s economics who dreams of using the FCC to shut down media critics—and possibly a global trade war to boot. The Democrats are, incredibly enough, for a moment the relatively free-trade party and the party more closely aligned with the interests of the country’s most dynamic business concerns and cultural institutions. If the Democrats were more clever, they might offer the libertarians a better deal on trade, criminal justice, and civil liberties. Instead, they are dreaming up excuses to sue or jail people for their views on climate change, and the United States is for the moment left with two authoritarian populist parties and no political home for classical liberalism at all.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/defused/556934/

Do you agree that libertarianism as a effective political faction is waning in the wake of the rise of Trump? That its little more than a hip alternative label? I think he has a point. Rand Paul got absolutely crushed in the 2016 primaries and he was basically the flag bearer in the GOP for libertarians. I think even Ben Carson did better than he did early on.

Even the so called right-wing anarchist Stefan Molyneux has backtracked and said he now supports nationalism in the wake of Trump so even in the alternative media where libertarianism had some popularity you see it waning. I think this line from the article sums up how I feel about a lot of libertarians; "Libertarian sensibilities are popular because they enable the posture of above-it-all nonpartisanship".

 

[Trotsky]

American (right) libertarianism was always reductive corporate propaganda at its core (literally, basically all of its roots are in corporate speech). Its adherents have repeatedly proven themselves to be flaky dolts who will vote against whatever supposed principles they have when it is expedient, not realizing their espoused ideology is just a transparent coping mechanism for being a useful idiot.

Time to throw away the term or else revert libertarianism back to its leftist place.

 

[ndwolfwood]

This is what happens when marxists get into a good system. They subvert all the definitions and replace them.

Don't worry, their time is up. Just gotta be patient and be forgiving, and eventually we'll catch some luck.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Libertarianism was a cover for right wingers to hide under that would allow them to attack the safety net at a time when the GOP was unpopular.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I always thought they were more left on the social side, but to the right fiscally.

 

[Islam Imamate]

American (right) libertarianism was always reductive corporate propaganda at its core (literally, basically all of its roots are in corporate speech). Its adherents have repeatedly proven themselves to be flaky dolts who will vote against whatever supposed principles they have when it is expedient, not realizing their espoused ideology is just a transparent coping mechanism for being a useful idiot.

Time to throw away the term or else revert libertarianism back to its leftist place.

Here's another interesting excerpt from the article

Hence the peculiar fact that 2016 polling of Republican primary voters found self-identified libertarians backing the authoritarian Trump in remarkable numbers—59 percent in South Carolina—over more libertarian-leaning candidates such as Ted Cruz (17 percent in the same poll) or Marco Rubio (0 percent—ouch). By way of comparison, only 39 percent of self-identified independents backed Trump in that same South Carolina poll, 37 percent of self-identified Tea Party adherents, and 40 percent of voters in the oldest bracket (56-61). Self-described libertarians were not less likely to line up behind the authoritarian demagogue, but half-again as likely to do so. Self-professed libertarian voices such as Larry Elder have become abject Trumpists.

Almost two-thirds of them backed Trump in this poll which tells you many of them aren't really voting or backing candidates based on principle. I think what explains this is the aforementioned line about how being libertarian is more about above it all nonpartisan posturing. Libertarians think of themselves as outsiders and saw that Trump was an outsider so they got behind him.

 

[Gregolian]

I always thought they were more left on the social side, but to the right fiscally.

This was my understanding.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I always thought they were more left on the social side, but to the right fiscally.

This was my understanding.

Right but that doesn't really contradict the points made in the article. Libertarians claim to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative but backed a protectionist candidate who supports socially regressive ideas like expanding the War on Drugs and basically got nothing out of it.

 

[TheGreatA]

I think libertarianism is more of a cultural phenomenon than a political one.

The state will continue to exist as it has, as over-bearing as it has always been. But assuming libertarian positions has a positive effect on individuals. It forces them to start thinking about the world as the result of their own actions, rather than someone else's.

The libertarian model can never be assumed, for as long as people continue to behave, as they now do. Therefore a person who counts themselves in the ranks of the libertarians, must themselves change, first and foremost, as an individual, before he can entertain any hopes of a "libertarian world". It does not take long for us to realize that the libertarian model would turn our society to shit, but that is all due to the weakness of the individuals involved.

We must be a whole lot stronger and more moral, and more united, for all of that to be effective.

 

[Trotsky]

I always thought they were more left on the social side, but to the right fiscally.

Yeah, this is how they see themselves too, until actual social policy (besides vague sweeping ideas like marriage equality and cannabis legalization) comes under the scope. When it comes to actual policy matters and standards, the folks that make up the Ron/Rand Paul libertarians are very much on the reactionary right, particularly in matters of constitutional construction.

In reality, they're just reductionist/anti-pragmatist on fiscal matters and frankly just cowards on social matters.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think libertarianism is more of a cultural phenomenon than a political one.

That's sort of what the article says, that its generally more of a hip political label that enables Americans with right leaning sensibilities to disassociate from the highly unpopular right wing party. Its not really a political movement of substance or consequence, just a fad in its twilight.

 

[Seaside]

American (right) libertarianism was always reductive corporate propaganda at its core (literally, basically all of its roots are in corporate speech). Its adherents have repeatedly proven themselves to be flaky dolts who will vote against whatever supposed principles they have when it is expedient, not realizing their espoused ideology is just a transparent coping mechanism for being a useful idiot.

Time to throw away the term or else revert libertarianism back to its leftist place.

to be honest i dont think it is human nature to be libertarian. from what i have read of your all definiton of it. I cannot think of anyone who is true intellectual who wants pure anarcho capitalism, laisezz fare, or everyone for himself. All the nationalists, ethno nationalists, etc, science lovers, darwin type etc favor more government and regulation etc. Libertarian from what it seems is just chaos and wanting to force your rules on low small scale government thing.

People even it seem right wingers in USA were only´libertarian´and less government in order to make their own rules on smaller level but now if they have Trump or Pence or whoever and power over federal government there desire for ´small government´go away.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Here's another interesting excerpt from the article

Almost two-thirds of them backed Trump in this poll which tells you many of them aren't really voting or backing candidates based on principle. I think what explains this is the aforementioned line about how being libertarian is more about above it all nonpartisan posturing. Libertarians think of themselves as outsiders and saw that Trump was an outsider so they got behind him.

The main principle of libertarianism is slashing the safety net. All the stuff about free trade and legalizing marijuana are negotiable. Weakening the safety net is not.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I've noticed this and commented on it before just from reading the forums (lots of people who used to pose as libertarians enthusiastically supporting authoritarianism and gov't corruption).

 

[Islam Imamate]

The main principle of libertarianism is slashing the safety net. All the stuff about free trade and legalizing marijuana are negotiable. Weakening the safety net is not.

I can't say I disagree too much.

"We libertarians just want gay married couples to be able to defend their legal pot with guns...but first let's deregulate everything and cut social spending. Pot comes later, I promise."

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Right but that doesn't really contradict the points made in the article. Libertarians claim to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative but backed a protectionist candidate who supports socially regressive ideas like expanding the War on Drugs and basically got nothing out of it.

This was from your quotes.

But “libertarian” often means little more than “a person with right-leaning sensibilities who is embarrassed to be associated with the Republican Party.” (Hardly, these days, an indefensible position.)

So I said what I said. My view is based on the party platform as I understood it. Not sure why Libertarians would vote for Trump instead of Johnson. People are funny.

Yeah, this is how they see themselves too, until actual social policy (besides vague sweeping ideas like marriage equality and cannabis legalization) comes under the scope. When it comes to actual policy matters and standards, the folks that make up the Ron/Rand Paul libertarians are very much on the reactionary right, particularly in matters of constitutional construction.

In reality, they're just reductionist/anti-pragmatist on fiscal matters and frankly just cowards on social matters.

Ron and Rand are Republicans by affiliation, aren't they? But again, I'm going off what I read of the party platform.

 

[Trotsky]

Ron and Rand are Republicans by affiliation, aren't they? But again, I'm going off what I read of the party platform.

Well, yes, but they say they are libertarians (they're full of shit) that are just within the GOP coalition. Kind of like if Bernie Sanders was in the Democratic Party and was an idiot.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This was from your quotes.



So I said what I said. My view is based on the party platform as I understood it. Not sure why Libertarians would vote for Trump instead of Johnson. People are funny.

Right, libertarians claim to be socially to the left but in practice are largely just Republicans who are embarrassed to admit they're Republicans. The point is that the dissonance between what libertarians claim to be and how they actually act has basically reduced any sort of impact libertarianism might have as a political or social movement.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Well, yes, but they say they are libertarians (they're full of shit) that are just within the GOP coalition. Kind of like if Bernie Sanders was in the Democratic Party and was an idiot.

Yeah. So they're more beholden to the Republican Party.

Right, libertarians claim to be socially to the left but in practice are largely just Republicans who are embarrassed to admit they're Republicans. The point is that the dissonance between what libertarians claim to be and how they actually act has basically reduced any sort of impact libertarianism might have as a political or social movement.

Where's the practice? Their candidates don't get elected. There's certainly dissonance if they claim to be Libertarian but vote Republican or Democrat. For those people then yeah, seems like they're just trying to put some hipster label on doing the same old shit.

 

[grimballer]

Here's another interesting excerpt from the article

Almost two-thirds of them backed Trump in this poll which tells you many of them aren't really voting or backing candidates based on principle. I think what explains this is the aforementioned line about how being libertarian is more about above it all nonpartisan posturing. Libertarians think of themselves as outsiders and saw that Trump was an outsider so they got behind him.

Cause most libertarians are not globalists

They want less taxes, smaller federal government, no useless spending like foreign military interventions n are pretty much constitutional absolutists

Trump came closest to their views/believes

Everybody else were pro globalism or pro big government or pro military interventions