The most liberal pope since Jesus?

I liked the evil pope more. #truecatholic

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dontsnitch said:
I hear you on the revere thing, because a lot of Protestants likewise revere the apostle Paul. Just some take it too far with Mary, although I guess some take it too far with Paul as well.

I think denominations are like political parties. You're never going to fully agree with all of their views. I stay away from labelling myself a certain denomination, I've attended just about every denominational church there is at one point or another, and they all have weaknesses and strengths. Right now I go to a non-denominational, but even they become a sort of denomination.
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Word. It's all BS but in order to practice you have to compromise somehow. I am a bit ocd and I love Catholic/Orthodox mass. I find Prot to be a bit dull and even lack "would" or character. Too much emphasis on right wing non Christian issues such as gay or being successful in work.

Non Dom always seemed whacky in my areas. Either almost non Christian in practice ie Islam is correct too. Or they are evil mega churches. No real middle.

I do respect the Mennonites and the Quakers. They seem to have it right IMHO esp lifestyle wise
 
LionExMachina said:
Aren't demons just really disaffected, union angels?
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Haha well put. Yes demons are just fallen angels for all we know. Things is the bible is mostly need to know for that kinda stuff. It seems almost intentionally vauge there
 
dontsnitch said:
The problem is that the original Greek does not say "Hail" it says "greetings". "Hail" has become to mean "praise" or "worship".

This is also just one aspect of the Mary doctrine. They also teach she was without original sin, which also happens to be contrary to scripture.

I don't want to make this a big issue, I don't feel like going full out against catholicism, they have some value, I have no real big problems with them, just wanted to point out some inconsistencies.
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Hail, as far as definitions go, means greeting/salutation or acceptance. I was raised catholic in the second half of my adolescent life and don't remember being taught to worship mary. Obviously she's heavily revered because she is the mother of a (the) god.

Forkfoot said:
Yeah it's not about adding onto scripture, it's about figuring out how the seeds of truth in scripture are to be sewn and grown in daily life. I was just saying that there's nothing in scripture saying don't believe anything that's not in scripture, nor is there anything saying don't look to teachings or authority when trying to figure out how to live your faith.



They come from the teaching authority, which in Catholicism does include stuff not in scripture, like a lot of the Mary stuff for example. It doesn't say in scripture that she was immaculately conceived or that her body was assumed without decaying; that came from the teaching authority of the Church. You might disagree with the Church's non-scriptural doctrine, but you can't say that it's prohibited by scripture itself.
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This is pretty much how judaism works as well with the oral and written torahs. Considering that religion will be around for the entirety of my lifetime and lifetimes to come, catholoicism and non-orthodox judaism are currently ones I don't mind too much as far abrahamic religion/denomination go.

Really, tbf, based on what I know of islam and hadiths and of the history of africa and the ME, I'd put it on that list if not for their recent [popular] history. I guess I could include some western islam like western sufism. It should also be noted that the arabic world is pretty large and what little I've been following of politics shows different stages/beliefs for different historical reasons [that i don't want to go into since ppl here seem to not be able to handle some stuff].

Supereem said:
Go to Greece and you will see it is obvious the saints/Maria/angels helped in the transition from polytheism to Christianity.

Sailors still needed a 'sea god' to believe in, so the temples of Poseidon were replaced with churches to St Nicholas. People still needed their "mother" goddess (Gaia, Hera, Athena) so Maria took the mantle. Warriors still needed their Ares so St George took that mantle.
I am Christian but anthropologically it is obvious that Orthodox Christians are basically polytheistic. In theory you pray to the saints to pray to God but most believe the actual saints are the ones helping you out. I love it all the same however.
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As I said above, though in regard to mary, this isn't what I was taught nor obvious to me. Catholics believe in communal prayer and support it with scripture. Saints are believed to be ppl who answered the call of god. Catholics respect/pray to them because of their faithfulness to the trinity/gospel and provide this communal link in heaven.

Now, if there are ppl who have forgotten their teachings then that, imo, is another thing. IDK how much of the case that is because afaik a lot of ppl simply recite saints prayers which are to the trinity. We're (though I no longer am) also heavily indoctrinated trinitarians. And reverence may be conflated/confused with worship especially by those with an agenda/bias.
 
Bork said:
As I said above, though in regard to mary, this isn't what I was taught nor obvious to me. Catholics believe in communal prayer and support it with scripture. Saints are believed to be ppl who answered the call of god. Catholics respect/pray to them because of their faithfulness to the trinity/gospel and provide this communal link in heaven.

Now, if there are ppl who have forgotten their teachings then that, imo, is another thing. IDK how much of the case that is because afaik a lot of ppl simply recite saints prayers which are to the trinity. We're (though I no longer am) also heavily indoctrinated trinitarians. And reverence may be conflated/confused with worship especially by those with an agenda/bias.
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His post is spot on and that's coming from someone who lives in a country of Orthodox Christianity. Old Pagan traditions and beliefs do often intersect with Christian ones.

ElKarlo said:
That is not a real option for a myriad of reasons.
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Why ? Is it mandatory to have a middle man in your faith ?
 
AmbivalenceKing said:
His post is spot on and that's coming from someone who lives in a country of Orthodox Christianity. Old Pagan traditions and beliefs do often intersect with Christian ones.
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I still disagree for the reasons in the quote of me. You really didn't say much other than you disagree with me and agree with him. Cool.
 
If top republicans are criticizing the Pope, and if cafeteria Christians like Ripskater take umbrage to him, ...I consider this a great sign...he must be doing something right.
 
AmbivalenceKing said:
You have to dedicate your life to crazy rants in local churches and knocking on people's doors asking if they wish to be saved. You might be a bit late to ever become one since it requires at least two decades of practice.
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Bullshit. With YouTube and prison planet at your disposal, you can become an expert in a week.
 
AmbivalenceKing said:
Why ? Is it mandatory to have a middle man in your faith ?
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Same reason I train under a BJJ instructor. We both have a lot to learn, but it is better to have help and mentoring in these kind of developmental journeys
 
Bork said:
Hail, as far as definitions go, means greeting/salutation or acceptance. I was raised catholic in the second half of my adolescent life and don't remember being taught to worship mary. Obviously she's heavily revered because she is the mother of a (the) god.
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That's fair, maybe not everyone worships Mary, although I gotta wonder why make a prayer for her in the first place? Why teach that she is without original sin? I find the emphasis on her extremely strange, aside from the tradition of doing so.

It reminds me of when Paul rebuked some of the early converts for similar reasons. He explained that he was just a man, and that Jesus was the only one to be worshipped.

Anyway, I do think it depends on the individual, and his particular perspective on what Mary means to them.
 
dontsnitch said:
That's fair, maybe not everyone worships Mary, although I gotta wonder why make a prayer for her in the first place? Why teach that she is without original sin? I find the emphasis on her extremely strange, aside from the tradition of doing so.

It reminds me of when Paul rebuked some of the early converts for similar reasons. He explained that he was just a man, and that Jesus was the only one to be worshipped.
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exactly
 
Dochter said:
Don't they?
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yes, literally the same god. you can think of each one as a revision over the previous doctrine. Christianity keeps the same prophets and origin that Jews do, but with the addition of Jesus and his teachings. Islam expands on that through the prophet Mohammed PBUH.

But then there are further deviations, like the sects that rose out of Islam, Protestantism, and later Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses.

At the root of it all is the Abrahamic god so its all one huge Jewish meme.
 
bad seed said:
yes, literally the same god. you can think of each one as a revision over the previous doctrine. Christianity keeps the same prophets and origin that Jews do, but with the addition of Jesus and his teachings. Islam expands on that through the prophet Mohammed PBUH.
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That's what was odd about his comment.
 
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