The most liberal pope since Jesus?

[The ScorpioN]

Some passages are more ambiguous than others. I have no problem with an honest examination where different interpretations arise.

There is a big difference in someone being honest and unsure, and someone using these mental gymnastics to justify something for their own gain.

Seems like it's way too subjective most of the time to really know whether it's honest or not. Except in obvious cases, like televangelists and mega churches.

 

[dontsnitch]

We could debate that all day, but that would be pointless and pedantic. You're obviously not Catholic, so it doesn't affect you anyway.

We're not talking about Joseph Smith, we're talking about the RCC. If you don't like their teachings, don't be Catholic. I personally think they're alright as far as religions go, but that's just me.

It affects all of us, when you open the door for exceptions, it's exactly what leads to things like Joseph Smith, so it's precisely why I brought him up.

Every denomination has some misconceptions or another, whether they emphasize one thing too much, not enough, or plain misinterpret some doctrines. It is why I am not attached to a denomination, I'm a Christian first and foremost, and the scripture itself should reinforce your beliefs, not be molded to fit your preexisting beliefs.

 

[Forkfoot]

It affects all of us, when you open the door for exceptions, it's exactly what leads to things like Joseph Smith, so it's precisely why I brought him up.

Every denomination has some misconceptions or another, whether they emphasize one thing too much, not enough, or plain misinterpret some doctrines. It is why I am not attached to a denomination, I'm a Christian first and foremost, and the scripture itself should reinforce your beliefs, not be molded to fit your preexisting beliefs.

If you're interpreting scripture for yourself then it's guaranteed you're going to use it to reinforce your preexisting beliefs.

 

[dontsnitch]

Seems like it's way too subjective most of the time to really know whether it's honest or not. Except in obvious cases, like televangelists and mega churches.

You can read the scripture yourself in an honest way, with some help, and see that a lot of it, if not most of it, is pretty straight up.

When people are forcing scripture for a reason, it is often obvious. When someone receives a so-called revelation that completely contradicts scripture, and especially when they personally stand to gain from this new interpretation, it's obvious.

 

[dontsnitch]

If you're interpreting scripture for yourself then it's guaranteed you're going to use it to reinforce your preexisting beliefs.

That's why you approach it with a blank slate and open mind, I don't need to hold on to beliefs that people have taught if it contradicts scripture. Mary being sinless is an obvious tenet that I can outright reject, as it is contradicted repeatedly.

I'm constantly shifting my views and understanding depending on what I read and learn. I'd rather hold a position of uncertainty towards things, than not be willing to let go of a suspicious tenet.

 

[The ScorpioN]

You can read the scripture yourself in an honest way, with some help, and see that a lot of it, if not most of it, is pretty straight up.

When people are forcing scripture for a reason, it is often obvious. When someone receives a so-called revelation that completely contradicts scripture, and especially when they personally stand to gain from this new interpretation, it's obvious.

In what ways do you the Catholic church is doing that with the "Hail Mary" prayer? Or any other doctrines. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

lol, what the fuck are you possibly saying calling Jesus liberal?

Jesus was def no Neo con.

 

[Forkfoot]

That's why you approach it with a blank slate and open mind,

If you've got the conceptual agility to attain a truly open mind and the mental freedom and clarity needed to approach anything a truly blank slate, then you've got no need for scripture. You're already ahead of 99.99% of the rest of humanity if you can really do such a thing, and the Tao will naturally express through you. But hardly anyone can actually do that. Most people who read scripture are just adding new data into their conditioning networks for their deeply unconscious and repetitive patterns to play with.

 

[dontsnitch]

In what ways do you the Catholic church is doing that with the "Hail Mary" prayer? Or any other doctrines. I'm genuinely curious.

Not sure what you're asking about the Hail Mary prayer. I know a lot of catholics, and I know that many of them hold Mary to a dubious level of esteem that is for all intents worshipping her, which I vehemently disagree with.

I don't think the entire denomination is bad, I've attended many catholic services, I admire a lot of their faith, just think they have some pretty obviously false teachings which there is no reason for them to keep in the face of biblical proof.

 

[dontsnitch]

If you've got the conceptual agility to attain a truly open mind and the mental freedom and clarity needed to approach anything a truly blank slate, then you've got no need for scripture. You're already ahead of 99.99% of the rest of humanity if you can really do such a thing, and the Tao will naturally express through you. But hardly anyone can actually do that. Most people who read scripture are just adding new data into their conditioning networks for their deeply unconscious and repetitive patterns to play with.

That's not the correct approach. If you don't approach the scriptures with an open mind, being ready to try to understand what it's saying, what Christ taught, and to reject things which you believe that are contrary to these teachings, you might as well not even read the scriptures. Just make up whatever you want.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Not sure what you're asking about the Hail Mary prayer. I know a lot of catholics, and I know that many of them hold Mary to a dubious level of esteem that is for all intents worshipping her, which I vehemently disagree with.

I don't think the entire denomination is bad, I've attended many catholic services, I admire a lot of their faith, just think they have some pretty obviously false teachings which there is no reason for them to keep in the face of biblical proof.

Could you give me some other teachings besides the worship of Mary that you disagree with?

I was born into the Russian Orthodox denomination and most people who are religious tend to pray and worship a lot of saints. Icons of saints, from what I recall, are even more prevalent than Jesus himself. That does seem a bit contrary to the scripture.

 

[Forkfoot]

That's not the correct approach. If you don't approach the scriptures with an open mind, being ready to try to understand what it's saying, what Christ taught, and to reject things which you believe that are contrary to these teachings, you might as well not even read the scriptures. Just make up whatever you want.

And my point is that virtually nobody has the mental freedom necessary to approach scripture with an open mind. Everyone says they do it, but virtually nobody does.

 

[dontsnitch]

Could you give me some other teachings besides the worship of Mary that you disagree with?

I was born into the Russian Orthodox denomination and most people who are religious tend to pray and worship a lot of saints. Icons of saints, from what I recall, are even more prevalent than Jesus himself. That does seem a bit contrary to the scripture.

The only real doctrines I disagree with are the ones surrounding Mary, the praying to the Saints (to a lesser degree), and the Transubstantiation (the sacrament literally becoming the body of Christ).

They also seem to focus on a work-based salvation, but this is not in their catechism, to my knowledge, so I don't know where people get this concept from, but I know a lot of catholics that adhere to it, in the same way Islam adheres to their scales.

 

[dontsnitch]

And my point is that virtually nobody has the mental freedom necessary to approach scripture with an open mind. Everyone says they do it, but virtually nobody does.

Perhaps, but there are degrees. There is nothing I am not willing to contemplate if you show me biblical proof for.

It is how I have changed my view from the Traditional view of hell to contemplate the truth of Conditionalism. I now stand undecided on the matter.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

He seems alright, but this first link makes little sense in light of the second.

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html

"If you trust only men you have lost," he told the young people in a long, rambling talk about war, trust and politics after putting aside his prepared address.

"It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn't it?" he said to applause.

He also criticized those who invest in weapons industries, saying "duplicity is the currency of today ... they say one thing and do another."

http://www.businessinsider.com/vatican-tourists-never-see-2012-5?op=1

The Swiss Guard, the world's smallest standing army, stocks its gear under the streets of Vatican City.

 

[Ruprecht]

Given that the vast majority of Templar Knights were imprisoned, tortured, executed and had the property of their Order stolen on the direct orders of the Pope - no, it's not that funny at all.

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away...
If it wasn't for the Crusades and the Papal bull supporting them, where would they have been?

So yeah, it may be 8 centuries later, but someone that likes to style themselves as "knighttemplar" and then discredits the pope by quoting Stalin of all people, is kinda funny...

Not that surprising though really, given the sort of people that like to entertain "knight templar" fantasies.

 

[KnightTemplar]

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away...
If it wasn't for the Crusades and the Papal bull supporting them, where would they have been?

So yeah, it may be 8 centuries later, but someone that likes to style themselves as "knighttemplar" and then discredits the pope by quoting Stalin of all people, is kinda funny...

Not that surprising though really, given the sort of people that like to entertain "knight templar" fantasies.

Since the entire Catholic Church, like all organised religions, is in the business of selling fantasies, I guess I'm in good company.

The only real difference between Holy Mother Church and Scientology is that the Catholics have had a lot longer to work on their act.:icon_chee

 

[Orgasmo]

Jesus was a total Communist prick that deserves to get tortured in Guantanamo for spreading that hippie shit.

 

[Whitesnake]

The fact that climate change is "liberal" and thus makes the pope liberal, is maybe the dumbest fucking thing i can possibly fathom. American conservatives are the poison of the earth. They cause half of their own problems, and then respond by doubling down on the very failures that caused the issues in the first place.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Oprah is racist.