The mental health crisis in America

[mozfonky]

I'm in the UK. Over here you'll have a discussion first to ascertain which type of therapy is best for you (CBT, talking therapy, exposure therapy, EMDR, group therapy etc) then you get prescribed a certain number of sessions. At the end of the sessions they'll check progress, sometimes extend, sometimes end the therapy if it's no longer needed, sometimes move to a different type of therapy, sometimes move to a more intense course of therapy).

I think the bottom line is the therapist doesn't have an incentive to keep someone in therapy who doesn't need therapy and doesn't have an incentive to drag it out for as long as possible.

I work in welfare and my primary focus is disability support and I've seen first hand people go from not leaving the house to functional, employed members of society.

anywhere someone can gain a superior position in any way, there is the possibility of abuse. I don't know how bad Europes catholic churches were for molestation but ours were horrible, and I understand that the churches over there aren't primarily there to make money.

And sure, it's ok for people to get better but your definition has never been one that sat right with me. I never thought working was the panacea as an adult that everyone wanted it to be. Especially, if i was just getting exploited. Again, as I think I mentioned, definitions handed to us, made before we were born and expected of us are a big reason a lot of people are fucked up. I wathched my ma get chewed up in the work world and swore it wouldn't happen to me, and I've had few "real" jobs, if any, that I didn't think were a stupid waste of my time and energy. Now, I know my exp is limited, i'm sure people who can afford a lot of shit and bought a lot of shit from that job thought it was worth it for them but I never had many jobs where that was even something I could get and even when i did have a job at a steel mill, a place where pretty much anyone could make decent money, the people were so miserable and depressed all day that being able to buy a house or a motorhome with the money would never fix all the spiritual damage that was done for years and years and years.

 

[mozfonky]

They definitely don't have the highest suicide rates of all professions. It is true that people who've had mental health issues themselves in the past might be attracted to wanting to help others going through mental health problems though.

Maybe not today, I think I checked and other professions were, my uncle told me this 40 years ago and he usually got his sources from well researched mags or books. My uncle was amazing, he was telling me about dna and how it would revolutionize crime analysis soon, this was in 89.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

anywhere someone can gain a superior position in any way, there is the possibility of abuse. I don't know how bad Europes catholic churches were for molestation but ours were horrible, and I understand that the churches over there aren't primarily there to make money.

And sure, it's ok for people to get better but your definition has never been one that sat right with me. I never thought working was the panacea as an adult that everyone wanted it to be. Especially, if i was just getting exploited. Again, as I think I mentioned, definitions handed to us, made before we were born and expected of us are a big reason a lot of people are fucked up. I wathched my ma get chewed up in the work world and swore it wouldn't happen to me, and I've had few "real" jobs, if any, that I didn't think were a stupid waste of my time and energy. Now, I know my exp is limited, i'm sure people who can afford a lot of shit and bought a lot of shit from that job thought it was worth it for them but I never had many jobs where that was even something I could get and even when i did have a job at a steel mill, a place where pretty much anyone could make decent money, the people were so miserable and depressed all day that being able to buy a house or a motorhome with the money would never fix all the spiritual damage that was done for years and years and years.

Well forget working. Start with someone not leaving the house and having to do video appointments and end with them being out in society being able to do normal things, make friends, hang out, be active etc.

That person's life is objectively better right?

 

[mozfonky]

Look, Ronald Reagan was a shit president. But I can’t exactly say that his decision to close the “loony bins” was a bad decision. People were abused there. Many didn’t even belong.

This is a problem that universal healthcare could contribute to solving. That, and stopping the ultra-wealthy from siphoning all the money from the lower classes into their savings accounts. People are struggling. So of course their mental health is precarious.

There was some research done not too long ago that showed the massive increase in homelessness we’ve seen over the past 10 - 15 years is directly related to the 2008 housing crisis. And I’m sure the opioid epidemic didn’t help.

they were abused there but you cannot tell me that some situations wouldn't be worse. I've seen some women wandering the streets, or sleeping on the sidewalk or just so far from being sane that they'd have to really be purely evil to make a life inside somewhere worse and yes, I know it's happened. But orderlies raping women wouldn't be any better or worse than facing the elements, getting raped by anyone who saw how helpless you were or even being killed with no one giving a fuck. I hurt when I see women who I know would be a target for rape, I know it, and there they are not even in any kind of right mind. Truly what we live in is maybe a lower level of hell because that shit makes me sick.

Now, as far as the housing crisis and the druggies, I don't know. If you're that ignorant as to become a drug addict because of that stuff maybe you weren't to on the ball to begin with. So, you become homeless and that makes you take drugs? never made sense to me at all. I think the drugs are a symptom of how empty our values and lives are, that's my opinion. I also think that this country has holllowed out it's citizens, placed them in demeaning, depleting jobs and robbing them of even the ability to be good parents, that's where I think a lot of these dumbasses come from. They aren't people that "lost their house" no sir, not with the way they act, they were jackasses growing up, you don't become that much of a dumbass overnight, that's parental neglect and a large part of that has occured for generations, while the parents were getting used up at these shitty jobs. And people do see their parents getting put through it all for nothing pretty much and they just say fuck it.

But, that's why we always need immigrants to bring new, dumb, naive people to fuck over the same way.

 

[mozfonky]

Well forget working. Start with someone not leaving the house and having to do video appointments and end with them being out in society being able to do normal things, make friends, hang out, be active etc.

That person's life is objectively better right?

sure, it should be. But I get the not wanting to leave the house, with how people act where I live, I don't want to deal with any of them. I understand why people are so insular, I've heard depression is a way for us to hibernate from dangers, well, that's certainly a valid reason because there are many dangers out there, many.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

sure, it should be. But I get the not wanting to leave the house, with how people act where I live, I don't want to deal with any of them. I understand why people are so insular, I've heard depression is a way for us to hibernate from dangers, well, that's certainly a valid reason because there are many dangers out there, many.

Well that's what anxiety is. It's people's perception of danger being out of whack with actual levels of danger and a therapist can help someone identify and change unhelpful thought patterns to get a more objective perspective on danger and lessen anxiety levels.

 

[fica]

its actualy medication. more medication they give you worst of your problems become or you even develop more problems

 

[William Huggins]

It's easy to fake mental health problems

Then you develop them from the medication........

 

[mozfonky]

Well that's what anxiety is. It's people's perception of danger being out of whack with actual levels of danger and a therapist can help someone identify and change unhelpful thought patterns to get a more objective perspective on danger and lessen anxiety levels.

that's the thing, the dangers are there, but we do have to get out there to survive. That goes for nature too, the dangers are more blatant there. Things are actually out there that will physicall eat you, that's more real a threat than the pistol packing road rager or the asshole boss,

 

[Hellowhosthat]

that's the thing, the dangers are there, but we do have to get out there to survive. That goes for nature too, the dangers are more blatant there. Things are actually out there that will physicall eat you, that's more real a threat than the pistol packing road rager or the asshole boss,

That's true but anxiety is disordered thinking where people think things are more dangerous they are

 

[mozfonky]

That's true but anxiety is disordered thinking where people think things are more dangerous they are

ya, i've been there, this past summer, it was awful. Now it's letting up but of course, the anxieties are fully justified. I'm just feeling well enough to deal with it. I didn't want to do my job (delivery) because it's constant problems, now that I'd driving more..., well, constant problems, flat tires two nights in a row, all the money for oil, gas, insurance,toll fees. I'm just saying, it's exhausting, especially if, as many of us do, have zero resources, useless friends and family. I get why it's getting worse, i get it first hand. I don't get a chance not to get it. idiots in traffic, attitudes to deal with from customers and vendors, fuck 'em all.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

ya, i've been there, this past summer, it was awful. Now it's letting up but of course, the anxieties are fully justified. I'm just feeling well enough to deal with it. I didn't want to do my job (delivery) because it's constant problems, now that I'd driving more..., well, constant problems, flat tires two nights in a row, all the money for oil, gas, insurance,toll fees. I'm just saying, it's exhausting, especially if, as many of us do, have zero resources, useless friends and family. I get why it's getting worse, i get it first hand. I don't get a chance not to get it. idiots in traffic, attitudes to deal with from customers and vendors, fuck 'em all.

I get that life can be exhausting Sherbro, but there are things you can do to improve mental resilience to it.

I just think that in general anti-therapy posts are a bit dangerous because many dudes try and deal with things themselves rather than get help and quite a lot of people end up dead that didn't need to.

 

[mozfonky]

Yeah when I talk about my mental health struggles and mention my day to day life, people usually say something like well yeah your life sounds unpleasant.

There's a lot of people here struggling with mental health, while also living a brutal existence in poverty always racing one step ahead of homelessness.

sometimes, all you can do, and it's tough as hell, is just press on. Like I told my brother when our mom died and he had a nervous breakdown, "no one cares" they'll just let you die. Luckily, he had me to get him through but I really thought he was on his way to living on the street, nope, he got subsidized housing and I ended up on the streets, but it's ok, I know how to deal with it.

 

[mozfonky]

I get that life can be exhausting Sherbro, but there are things you can do to improve mental resilience to it.

I just think that in general anti-therapy posts are a bit dangerous because many dudes try and deal with things themselves rather than get help and quite a lot of people end up dead that didn't need to.

ya, but i know what I'm talking about, I've been through it, it's not a magic bullet, a magic bullet, doesn't exist. Went through a helluva time the last 9 months, I got through it but I'm not really through it, I don't know what the fuck to do but I know that that's not the answer and I don't even want to think about the other answers.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

ya, but i know what I'm talking about, I've been through it, it's not a magic bullet, a magic bullet, doesn't exist. Went through a helluva time the last 9 months, I got through it but I'm not really through it, I don't know what the fuck to do but I know that that's not the answer and I don't even want to think about the other answers.

I think a lot of the time it depends on the therapist and the type of therapy you do. Just like people don't hit it off with everyone they meet, not everyone is going to be able to build a positive rapport with every therapist.

I don't think it means there isn't a therapist or type of therapy out there that could help you. I struggled a lot with mental health issues when I was younger and it took a couple of times round before I found a therapist that I clicked with and was able to help guide me towards the epiphanies I needed to be able to change my thinking patterns.

 

[mozfonky]

I think a lot of the time it depends on the therapist and the type of therapy you do. Just like people don't hit it off with everyone they meet, not everyone is going to be able to build a positive rapport with every therapist.

I don't think it means there isn't a therapist or type of therapy out there that could help you. I struggled a lot with mental health issues when I was younger and it took a couple of times round before I found a therapist that I clicked with and was able to help guide me towards the epiphanies I needed to be able to change my thinking patterns.

Well, I don't believe in it. If you know it helped you I'm glad for you. I really could tell some stories that were pretty horrid, once upon a time from when I was young. It's a bit like being abused by some religious order, sure, it's helped someone out there but it's hurt a lot of people too. It's a waste, I resent almost all the people I met in that line. I see most of them as self-serving.

On the other side, I know from experience that white knuckling it doesn't always work either. There have been times when I can't concentrate well enough to even do things I enjoy, not to mention functioning well enough to work and deal with this bullshit world we all have to deal with. But, sometimes, we just have to get through it somehow and carry on.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Well, I don't believe in it. If you know it helped you I'm glad for you. I really could tell some stories that were pretty horrid, once upon a time from when I was young. It's a bit like being abused by some religious order, sure, it's helped someone out there but it's hurt a lot of people too. It's a waste, I resent almost all the people I met in that line. I see most of them as self-serving.

On the other side, I know from experience that white knuckling it doesn't always work either. There have been times when I can't concentrate well enough to even do things I enjoy, not to mention functioning well enough to work and deal with this bullshit world we all have to deal with. But, sometimes, we just have to get through it somehow and carry on.

Fair enough if you think it doesn't work for you, but every time I see someone say mental health support doesn't work I do feel the need to call BS on that being a general rule as somebody who needs the support could read that and decide not to get it.

 

[mozfonky]

Fair enough if you think it doesn't work for you, but every time I see someone say mental health support doesn't work I do feel the need to call BS on that being a general rule as somebody who needs the support could read that and decide not to get it.

not everything in life has answers or easy answers. My advice would not be pat for anyone (pat meaning simple) things aren't simple. My best advice these days would be to pray. I lost my phone today, I prayed and someone honest turned it in and I had it a minute later. And of course, that's not going to work 100 percent of the time either but I'd recommend that before a therapist or even before church.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

not everything in life has answers or easy answers. My advice would not be pat for anyone (pat meaning simple) things aren't simple. My best advice these days would be to pray. I lost my phone today, I prayed and someone honest turned it in and I had it a minute later. And of course, that's not going to work 100 percent of the time either but I'd recommend that before a therapist or even before church.

Therapy isn't simple. It's a long process that takes months and is slow progress. I think if people are expecting it to be a magic instant cure then that's half the problem.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

One thing I know is that things that are detrimental to us on a human/personal/individual basis are the exact opposite for our society. That's not going to be advertised by all of the agents that promote society or make money off of it all. Therapists really don't study that aspect as far as I know, it's just a little portion of a person's entire life, society+the person needs to be healed and that'll never happen on a societal basis because the whole entity will not look critically at itself.

Can therapy help? i don't know, maybe sometimes, maybe in some ways but you're not helping people by labeling them and getting them under a doctors control and limiting their lives. So, on the whole, no, doesn't help.

Then, we do have the people who are so fractured we don't at least give them 3 hots and a cot or get them away from the rest of us who are struggling to hold it together and not end up where they are. They do need a place if not any real mental help which only god would be able to do in their cases.

Also, I've always been an outsider but the older I get, the more I question. Recently, I've been listening to a female Native American scholar and she has said how the Sioux kinships,relations were structured and how it was just so unnatural to do the wife/husband thing. She was promoting polyamority (if that's what the term is) and saying they used to fuck who they felt like and none of this eternal love BS. She has a point, as she mentioned the love shit is pushed on us, every movie, every song, just blasted with the shit and then we wonder why there are so many miserable couples and nasty divorces. So, once again, I don't think it's so much bad, defective people, it's bad rules and ideals that benefit the government in a million and one ways and make a mess out of our lives.

Honestly I am always skeptical about the Sioux thing and stuff like that. Maybe in primitive societies with loose structures it can work, but transpose that to western society and you get an absolute mess. A tight nuclear family is the basis of human civilisation. Concretely, your Sioux thing turns into a bunch of messed up middle age people on pain killers going to swinger clubs with fucked up kids doing drugs.