The kickfighting establishment is rotten to the core

[Shadess]

Well, kinda pointless, since most kickboxers don't compete in muay thai because the money is bad.




Because people know it's a regional promotion, while still being high level and appealing to the casual fan. Even Keaw and Kongnapa are only in it because they got a long history of fights in japan.

I KEEP TELLING YOU STOP WITH THIS LOGIC THING IT'S ANNOYING AND DOESN'T BELONG ON SHERDOG.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Who knew Kickfighting had social justice warriors...

I liked yall better as hipsters.

 

[Shadess]

Where are all the woman to man transitioned Europeans given straight Raja title shots huh?!? Bet you can't find me 5. Sorry for saying straight in that context, but I'm straight, white and male (the evil trinity) so I can't help myself. Buncha foreigner hating sexists all them Thais.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Who knew Kickfighting had social justice warriors...

I liked yall better as hipsters.

You would think a place about sports, let alone fighting sports, let alone a niche fighting sport would be devoid of them.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

All you people are unbelievable. You are determined to uphold the dogma that there's some big question as to whether Thais can consistently transition to kickboxing. There isn't, they've done more than enough to prove that they can. Moreover, you seem to be terrified of actually giving a definitive answer to this question. If you actually gave more than one Thai at a time the opportunity to do kickboxing than we could find out once and for all whether they would be consistently successful. But because you're determined to uphold the status quo and keep Thais out of kickboxing, it will be impossible to ever refute you. This is no different from some ID theorist who posits a "scientific" theory which can never be tested.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

You think Thais have it bad? Try being a Korean. We have the most beautiful style TKD yet nobody gives us fair representation in kickboxing. Its supposed to show all styles, but only kickboxers and muay thai get a chance.

I see no reason to think that TKD stylists are going to take over the kickboxing world, if given the chance. I couldn't give less of a shit about whether "all styles" get adequate representation in kickboxing. But if kickboxing actually wants to be seen as a real sport, then they should bring in the best available talent. By not giving Thais the same opportunities as guys from other countries they are hamstringing themselves.

 

[Shadess]

All you people are unbelievable. You are determined to uphold the dogma that there's some big question as to whether Thais can consistently transition to kickboxing. There isn't, they've done more than enough to prove that they can. Moreover, you seem to be terrified of actually giving a definitive answer to this question. If you actually gave more than one Thai at a time the opportunity to do kickboxing than we could find out once and for all whether they would be consistently successful. But because you're determined to uphold the status quo and keep Thais out of kickboxing, it will be impossible to ever refute you. This is no different from some ID theorist who posits a "scientific" theory which can never be tested.

Think there's like 4 on the next Wu Lin Feng. Probably was 10 on the February one. There's Thai's on every Kunlun card and GoH/RoH card.

 

[Yodsanan]

All you people are unbelievable. You are determined to uphold the dogma that there's some big question as to whether Thais can consistently transition to kickboxing. There isn't, they've done more than enough to prove that they can. Moreover, you seem to be terrified of actually giving a definitive answer to this question. If you actually gave more than one Thai at a time the opportunity to do kickboxing than we could find out once and for all whether they would be consistently successful. But because you're determined to uphold the status quo and keep Thais out of kickboxing, it will be impossible to ever refute you. This is no different from some ID theorist who posits a "scientific" theory which can never be tested.

nobody in this thread is actually denying that. do you actually read what we write.


and I could say the same about high level kickboxers in muay thai. How many Lumpinee and Raja scouts are after Nasukawa after he knocked out Wanchalong? How many thais are afraid Nasukawa shakes up the muay thai status quo and dominates the stadiums?

Funnily enough the muay thai stadiums seem to hold a strict one japanese rule. I think I'm onto something.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

~Generic Muay Thai fighters lose in kickboxing all the time. See: China.

To sort of merge the 2 paragraphs into an opposite argument: Find me good kickboxers who have been given the opportunities.

And again you seem to think this is something just done to Thai's. It's not like it's easy for everyone else to get to fight on the various kickboxing promotions.

I certainly never said that any old Thai can be plunked into kickboxing and succeed. Thailand has a million fighters of all different levels. If they were never a notable muay thai fighter than I wouldn't expect them to accomplish much in kickboxing. But when good muay thai fighters get kickboxing opportunities they generally do really well.

Marco Pique, Emriko Kehl, Yoshihiro Sato, Tetsuya Yamato, Dylan Salvador, Dzhabar Askerov, Masato and many, many, more.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Think there's like 4 on the next Wu Lin Feng. Probably was 10 on the February one. There's Thai's on every Kunlun card and GoH/RoH card.

You didn't really read my opening post very carefully. I said that although Thais were generally mistreated by kickboxing promotions, both historically and right now, Chinese promotions were the "happy exception" .

 

[Shadess]

There you go for an example for the distance matters thing then.

 

[SuperLuigi]

nobody in this thread is actually denying that. do you actually read what we write.

The goal posts are shifting all over the place and its why I got tired of putting in the effort with the old Coca threads. The same quirky trend seems to be present here.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

nobody in this thread is actually denying that. do you actually read what we write.


and I could say the same about high level kickboxers in muay thai. How many Lumpinee and Raja scouts are after Nasukawa after he knocked out Wanchalong? How many thais are afraid Nasukawa shakes up the muay thai status quo and dominates the stadiums?

Funnily enough the muay thai stadiums seem to hold a strict one japanese rule. I think I'm onto something.

Kickboxers don't get brought in for muay thai, they'd need to prove themselves first. Thai's don't have to do the same for kickboxing but for some reason the rest of the world owes them opportunities.

How should I interpret these sentences. It seems like the same "Thais can't do kickboxing garbage to me".

Maybe he would. I don't see how this is relevant. Even if Nasukawa could dominate the stadiums he would certainly be the exception in this regard. There is not much precedent for Japanese fighters competeing at the highest levels of muay thai with success. Every couple of years or decades one will pick up a big win, but very very very few win against even low level opposition. It isn't a trend and there are way more Japanese muay thai fighters getting opportunities to fight thais in muay thai than there are Thais getting kickboxing opportunities. Whereas in kickboxing, when good thais fight, they generally do really well. This is a trend. It's obvious to anyone (including you) who knows anything about muay thai in Japan and Thailand that Japanese fighters are getting opportunities that are commensurate with their ability to achieve. Thais in kickboxing not so much. Muay thai in the stadiums isn't losing out at all because they aren't giving whichever Japanese fighters happen to be relevant on the regional scene at the moment. Kickboxing on the other hand is losing out on guys who would almost certainly become all time greats in the sport, if given the opportunity.

Not really. There are more Japanese fighters who compete in the stadiums than any other nationality, except Thais and maybe Cambodians.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

There you go for an example for the distance matters thing then.

But not in K1 during it's whole history under FEG and not under it's current ownership.

 

[Yodsanan]

I was half trolling with that Nasukawa paragraph. I thought the banderas gif made that clear.

 

[Shadess]

The goal posts are shifting all over the place and its why I got tired of putting in the effort with the old Coca threads. The same quirky trend seems to be present here.

I had like 7 messages quoted to point this shit out but I came to the conclusion it doesn't matter with these guys so why bother. I wasted way too much time on this thread already.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Well, kinda pointless, since most kickboxers don't compete in muay thai because the money is bad. But here the latest example:

Bear in mind that there has never been an issue for foreign muay thai fighers getting kickboxing opportunities.....

As Abe said when it comes to nonthais the idea of being both a kickboxer and muaythai fighter is very common. Many top 10 kickboxers, all nonthai, have been mediocre muay thai fighters who couldn't hack it in muay thai.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I was half trolling with that Nasukawa paragraph. I thought the banderas gif made that clear.

Only half?

 

[Yodsanan]

Only half?

only half.

How should I interpret these sentences. It seems like the same "Thais can't do kickboxing garbage to me".

you should interpret it, as I wrote it. it's pretty straight foward.

Maybe he would. I don't see how this is relevant. Even if Nasukawa could dominate the stadiums he would certainly be the exception in this regard. There is not much precedent for Japanese fighters competeing at the highest levels of muay thai with success. Every couple of years or decades one will pick up a big win, but very very very few win against even low level opposition. It isn't a trend and there are way more Japanese muay thai fighters getting opportunities to fight thais in muay thai than there are Thais getting kickboxing opportunities. Whereas in kickboxing, when good thais fight, they generally do really well. This is a trend. It's obvious to anyone (including you) who knows anything about muay thai in Japan and Thailand that Japanese fighters are getting opportunities that are commensurate with their ability to achieve. Thais in kickboxing not so much. Muay thai in the stadiums isn't losing out at all because they aren't giving whichever Japanese fighters happen to be relevant on the regional scene at the moment. Kickboxing on the other hand is losing out on guys who would almost certainly become all time greats in the sport, if given the opportunity.

Not really. There are more Japanese fighters who compete in the stadiums than any other nationality, except Thais and maybe Cambodians.

all the japanese you are talking about are mostly small regional japanese fighters training in thailand at that time trying and working their way up the rankings. that's not compareable to already big established thais in the muay thai scene getting huge opportunities in kickboxing.

cases like that are unprecedented in muay thai.

 

[AbeRudder]

A lot of these excuses don't cut it imo

Because people know it's a regional promotion, while still being high level and appealing to the casual fan. Even Keaw and Kongnapa are only in there, because they got a history of fights in japan.

They focus on japanese talent but they also fly in foreign talent like Dahlbeck, Bennoui, Javier Hernandez, Hakim Hamech, Massaro etc. A lot of their foreigners they get are mid tier level foreign muay thai fighters. They even have the weight classes perfectly suited for thai fighters but to me it's clear that they don't want another Kaew type fighter dominating the division. I say this as someone that has enjoyed K1's recent events.....