The kickfighting establishment is rotten to the core

[Shadess]

So does that mean that you don't actually have any evidence to suggest that bringing in Thais is more of financial headache than it's a worth? The vast majority of the guys who fight on Glory cards are being flown

Well no obviously I don't have receipts from Glory but also obviously it's more expensive to bring in people further away. Dunno how many top Thai's would be willing to fight for $300 like him either. Glory isn't the greatest at scouting beyond gyms next door tbh.

talent scouting is part of the job being a major combat sports entity.

If so then same should go for the stadiums which doesn't seem to be the case, either.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

If so then same should go for the stadiums which doesn't seem to be the case, either.

They'll bring in really good foreigner if they've distinguished themselves outside of Thailand, this almost never happens. But the difference is that %99.999999999... of the best muay thai fighters in the world are Thai, or fight in Thailand, so it's no loss to the Muay Thai talent pool.

 

[Kanka]

I'm asking why YOU (the kickboxing collective) wouldn't care if 8 fighters from Thailand did kickboxing with no international participants. I only care about this because it's only obvious Thais are not treated well or represented in kick fighting except for Thailand. I don't need to see Thais kickbox for me to know they're real or deserving or praise, that's for you guys (kickboxing world).

Do you disagree that it would only get attention if some of those fighters were replaced by fighters not from Thailand?

By the way, all arguments are worthless if you accept that Thailand has more kick fighting talent than the rest of the world. I tend to think most of you believe this, so youre arguing just argue.

To be considered the best you would have to beat the established best. I'd rather see Manasak against Kaew, Petpabomrung or Jomthong than against Sensatarn, Chujaroen, Chamuektong in kickboxing. Doesn't make sense to create a paralel kickboxing league with only fighters with no kickboxing experience.

Even if there is more talent we have yet to see how someone lanky like Petmorakot would do against heavy handed guys in kickboxing like RvR. Clashes of styles make it more interesting. The uncertainty makes it more exciting.

I don't see it as guys on the forum thinking thais having to prove themselves internationally to get praise (maybe jay does idk) but rather want to see them do well and represent thailand and the whole sport of muay thai. Would be a shame if the most decorated muay thai fighter got knocked down by a nobody. Oh well...

 

[Snubnoze707]

By the way, all arguments are worthless if you accept that Thailand has more kick fighting talent than the rest of the world. I tend to think most of you believe this, so, at this point, you're arguing just argue.

I agree, 70kg and bellow. Which accounts for a whole two divisions in Glory for example. One of which has a Thai as a champ and the other has a Thai fighting for the title.

What are you complaining about again?

 

[Shadess]

But still, he could have made a strong statement when he gave the most boring possible answer.

He should have said something for sure.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I agree, 70kg and bellow. Which accounts for a whole two divisions in Glory for example. One of which has a Thai as a champ and the other has a Thai fighting for the title.

What are you complaining about again?

Thais only manage to achieve those results because they are way better than guys from the rest of the world, that doesn't mean that they are given even remotely the same opportunities in kickboxing as guys from other countries. The one Thai policies still exist in K1 and Glory, Thais just way overachieve. The ratio of guys from the Netherlands and Japan and Australia getting opportunities in kickboxing, just in the 70kg and below divisons, compared to Thais is very large.

 

[Yodsanan]

Thais only manage to achieve those results because they are way better than guys from the rest of the world, that doesn't mean that they are given even remotely the same opportunities in kickboxing as guys from other countries. The one Thai policies still exist in K1 and Glory, Thais just way overachieve. The ratio of guys from the Netherlands and Japan and Australia getting opportunities in kickboxing, just in the 70kg and below divisons, compared to Thais is very large.

that might sound mind boggling to you, but fighters from these countries actually do kickboxing and not a different sport.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Well no obviously I don't have receipts from Glory but also obviously it's more expensive to bring in people further away. Dunno how many top Thai's would be willing to fight for $300 like him either. Glory isn't the greatest at scouting beyond gyms next door tbh.

I don't know what you mean by further away? Kickboxing promotions exist all over the world and in the case of Glory will hold events all over the globe, K1 holds all their events in Japan, which is pretty close to Thailand. And yet the number of Thais fighting in their events never really changes based on where the event is held. They seem perfectly willing to fly in guys from all over, except Thailand. Is Thailand further away from every country in the world than every other country?

 

[Yodsanan]

I don't know what you mean by further away? Kickboxing promotions exist all over the world and in the case of Glory will hold events all over the globe, K1 holds all their events in Japan, which is pretty close to Thailand. And yet the number of Thais fighting in their events never really changes based on where the event is held. They seem perfectly willing to fly in guys from all over, except Thailand. Is Thailand further away from every country in the world than every other country?

K1 Japan doesn't have the luxury of putting many thais into their tournaments. There demographic is 99,9% Japanese, with a couple nerds on forums watching there stream via VPN.

They building up the sport again in Japan and you certainly don't do that by putting 2 or more thais into tournaments.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

that might sound mind boggling to you, but fighters from these countries actually do kickboxing and not a different sport.

But they make worse kickboxers than Thais, so it makes no sense to favour them. Imagine if the attitude towards collegiate wrestlers in MMA was the same. "We don't want your Jon Jones', Dillashaws', Cormiers', etc. We want guys who do MMA, not wrestling."

 

[Shadess]

This debate in general not just this thread is so weird. Kickboxers don't get brought in for muay thai, they'd need to prove themselves first. Thai's don't have to do the same for kickboxing but for some reason the rest of the world owes them opportunities. Thai's who fight outside of Thailand just go out to vacation and when there's bad performances and/or results those can be ignored on that basis. Losing decisions also most of the time is bad judging and not taking into account different scoring different promotions even in kickboxing have. All of this while excluding reasons like being able to sell tickets locally, various different tv contracts etc. when it comes to kickboxing.

 

[Yodsanan]

But they make worse kickboxer than Thais, so it makes no sense to favour them. Imagine if the attitude towards collegiate wrestlers in MMA was the same. "We don't want you Jon Jones', Dillashaws', Cormiers', etc. We want guys who do MMA, not wrestling."

even those guys worked their way up the mma rankings, when thais have the luxury of getting signed to big promotions immediately.

This debate in general not just this thread is so weird. Kickboxers don't get brought in for muay thai, they'd need to prove themselves first. Thai's don't have to do the same for kickboxing but for some reason the rest of the world owes them opportunities. Thai's who fight outside of Thailand just go out to vacation and when there's bad performances and/or results those can be ignored on that basis. Losing decisions also most of the time is bad judging and not taking into account different scoring different promotions even in kickboxing have. All of this while excluding reasons like being able to sell tickets locally, various different tv contracts etc. when it comes to kickboxing.

perfect.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

K1 Japan doesn't have the luxury of putting many thais into their tournaments. There demographic is 99,9% Japanese, with a couple nerds on forums watching there stream via VPN.

They building up the sport again in Japan and you certainly don't do that by putting 2 or more thais into tournaments.

Ok. So how do you expect a sane thinking person to not see kickboxing as a joke. This ain't how other combat sports are run. They don't put a quota on the number of Brazilians that can compete in IBJJF events because they'll win all the medals.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

even those guys worked they way up the kickboxing rankings, when thais have the luxury of getting signed to big promotions immediatly.



perfect.

Thais can make the transition to kickboxing quicker, history has clearly proved as much. Almost all the most successful Thais were fighting at the highest level in kickboxing from the outset.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

This debate in general not just this thread is so weird. Kickboxers don't get brought in for muay thai, they'd need to prove themselves first. Thai's don't have to do the same for kickboxing but for some reason the rest of the world owes them opportunities. Thai's who fight outside of Thailand just go out to vacation and when there's bad performances and/or results those can be ignored on that basis. Losing decisions also most of the time is bad judging and not taking into account different scoring different promotions even in kickboxing have. All of this while excluding reasons like being able to sell tickets locally, various different tv contracts etc. when it comes to kickboxing.

Because when kickboxers do muay thai, they lose and when muay thai fighters do kickboxing they win. History and common sense make this pretty obvious. Find me examples of kickboxers who have consistently had success in muay thai at anything close to the highest level. You can't do it.

If you don't think,at this point, that the few Thais representatives in kickboxing have proven that good Thais can be brought in to kickboxing to consistently fight at the highest level and succeed, then you are kidding yourself.

 

[Kim Jong Un]

You think Thais have it bad? Try being a Korean. We have the most beautiful style TKD yet nobody gives us fair representation in kickboxing. Its supposed to show all styles, but only kickboxers and muay thai get a chance.

 

[AbeRudder]

Bear in mind that there has never been an issue for foreign muay thai fighers getting kickboxing opportunities.....

 

[Shadess]

Because when kickboxers do muay thai, they lose and when muay thai fighters do kickboxing they win. History and common sense make this pretty obvious. Find me examples of kickboxers who have consistently had success in muay thai at anything close to the highest level. You can't do it.

~Generic Muay Thai fighters lose in kickboxing all the time. See: China.

If you don't think,at this point, that the few Thais representatives in kickboxing have proven that good Thais can be brought in to kickboxing to consistently fight at the highest level and succeed, then you are kidding yourself.

To sort of merge the 2 paragraphs into an opposite argument: Find me good kickboxers who have been given the opportunities.

And again you seem to think this is something just done to Thai's. It's not like it's easy for everyone else to get to fight on the various kickboxing promotions.

 

[Shadess]

You think Thais have it bad? Try being a Korean. We have the most beautiful style TKD yet nobody gives us fair representation in kickboxing. Its supposed to show all styles, but only kickboxers and muay thai get a chance.

Kunlun is here to help you my friend! They're starting/are partners in starting some Taekwondo thing next month. Maybe out of that some might appear on the kickboxing side of things too. Dunno if the current Korea hate is affecting that though.

 

[Yodsanan]

Find me examples of kickboxers who have consistently had success in muay thai at anything close to the highest level. You can't do it.

Well, kinda pointless, since most kickboxers don't compete in muay thai because the money is bad. But here the latest example:

Ok. So how do you expect a sane thinking person to not see kickboxing as a joke. This ain't how other combat sports are run. They don't put a quota on the number of Brazilians that can compete in IBJJF events because they'll win all the medals.

Because people know it's a regional promotion, while still being high level and appealing to the casual fan. Even Keaw and Kongnapa are only in there, because they got a history of fights in japan.