The Jordan Peterson Thread - V2 -

Der Eisbär said:
They clearly do bother many people. They clearly ARE pushing race and gender based hatred, which is harmful.That's why these videos get removed from youtube (in MTVs case) and the others are heavily downvoted with vitriolic comments. Your quote here is categorically not true.
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I mean actually bothering them, not just bothering their feelings.
 
Rational Poster said:
If you would just accept people for their differences the divisions wouldn't be so polarizing and people wouldn't get so radical about it.
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If it was only about that.. It isn't. Most people don't care.

A good example of an indication that it isn't about that is how girls are being radicalized into thinking they are oppressed via the 'gender wage gap due to sexism' narrative which falls apart under basic scrutiny and yet still is pushed.

Gotta make them feel oppressed if you want to co-opt them into becoming tools of the wider ideology.

There is the grand oppressor/oppressed narratives along prescribed lines that is stoked so deliberately within all of these groups. It creates a blame your neighbor narrative.

The left used to be more about class divide which is probably the most relevant. Well, I suppose the moderate left still is more about that, but the far left are changing the game and that is becoming mainstream.
 
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Rational Poster said:
It doesn't divide anyone.

People choose what they want to be and the left accepts their choice.

The right's unwillingness recognize or accept a person's choice is what creates the divisions.
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<Dany07>
 
Rational Poster said:
I'm not sure what you're on about actually.

I was referring to Peterson's own critique on his political leanings and his preference of individualism over collectivism and how individualism is a left leaning preference.
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Individualism isn't left leaning, that's the point. Post the video where Peterson says that.
 
Rational Poster said:
I mean actually bothering them, not just bothering their feelings.
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When those videos are shaping peoples minds and convincing them that they are oppressed and it's the white males doing, and they go around shaming people for being white and voting for legislation based on these ideologies, then obviously it actually does affect them. Keep your head in the sand though instead of standing over here in reality with those of us on the left and right that have identified this madness and collective identity based ideology.
 
IDL said:
If it was only about that.. It isn't. Most people don't care.

A good example of an indication that it isn't about that is how girls are being radicalized into thinking they are oppressed via the 'gender wage gap due to sexism' narrative which falls apart under basic scrutiny and yet still is pushed.

Gotta make them feel oppressed if you want to co-opt them into becoming tools of the wider ideology.

There is the grand oppressor/oppressed narratives along prescribed lines that is stoked so deliberately within all of these groups. It creates a blame your neighbor narrative.

The left used to be more about class divide which is probably the most relevant. Well, I suppose the moderate left still is more about that, but the far left are changing the game and that is becoming mainstream.
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Sorry this is when you lose me,

I'm out in the world and I just don't fall for this conspiracy of ideology BS.

It doesn't exist outside the internet.
 
Rational Poster said:
Sorry this is when you lose me,

I'm out in the world and I just don't fall for this conspiracy of ideology BS.

It doesn't exist outside the internet.
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I wish that were true, but i'm fine agreeing to disagree on it.
 
Renard said:
Individualism isn't left leaning, that's the point. Post the video where Peterson says that.
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Sorry I misremembered the quote, and you're right that he didn't specifically note that individualism is left leaning, but he did specifically note that he considers himself a classic British liberal and I dare you to find a concept more identifiable with classic liberalism than individualism.

You're just plain wrong. Individualism is a pillar of liberalism.
 
Rational Poster said:
Sorry I misremembered the quote, and you're right that he didn't specifically note that individualism is left leaning, but he did specifically note that he considers himself a classic British liberal and I dare you to find a concept more identifiable with classic liberalism than individualism.
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Classical liberalism as in John Locke and those thinkers. Yes, few things are more synonymous with individualism than they. It's a bummer when people jump into collectivist thinking, although you see that more and more these days. It's weird.
 
sub_thug said:
Classical liberalism as in John Locke and those thinkers. Yes, few things are more synonymous with individualism than they. It's a bummer when people jump into collectivist thinking, although you see that more and more these days. It's weird.
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That's only because we're reaching a point in society where a dash of collectivism is more beneficial to the individual.

There are too many people and not enough work. This problem is going to get worse as time goes on and automation forces the permanent retirement of hundreds of millions of workers faster than jobs can be created for them.

Sharing is preferable to the alternative.
 
Rational Poster said:
People on the left want individuals to be treated as individuals no matter how they choose to self identify. That's something even Peterson notes himself as a trait that makes him left leaning.

It's the right who enjoys dividing people into groups and treating people differently based on the right's assigned group identifiers.
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People like this do this, people like that do that. FUCK. Yeah let's just classify the entire populace via fox news and msnbc caricatures.

Stop classifying everyone! It has to start somewhere. Humans (yes, I'm classifying) just seem so desperate to classify everyone so they don't have to think. Stereotypes are a real time saver, you know.
 
Rational Poster said:
That's only because we're reaching a point in society where a dash of collectivism is more beneficial to the individual.

There are too many people and not enough work. This problem is going to get worse as time goes on and automation forces the permanent retirement of hundreds of millions of workers faster than jobs can be created for them.

Sharing is preferable to the alternative.
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We are at full employment right now, and it's never been easier to make a shit-ton of money. Today, if you can write your own software in your basement, you can make billions. Snap, Facebook, Instagram, Uber, Air BnB, etc. all required little overhead. I understand that there is economic stratification happening, but there is also huge opportunity in specific sectors. 40 years ago, if you wanted to make this kind of money, you needed millions in start-up capital. Right now, sharing seems to not be incentivized or advantageous for many people, so I can't really say that collectivism seems to be the best answer for us right now. Right now, individualism seems to be working well, even if it's not working for everyone.

Automation will be an issue for us in the future. There's actually a pretty good thread where @IGIT @sickc0d3r , and I were discussing it. You should come on over! It's Viva Revolution's thread.
 
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