The Hook Debate: Palm in or Palm down? (17 threads mashed together, have fun)

[Discipulus]

I think there is a place for palm-down body shots. Kidney punches and hooks thrown from the clinch, when it's not easy to get a lot of weight on them, seem to benefit from being thrown this way. Roberto Garcia throws a great palm-down wide right to the body, and Sugar Ray Robinson was famous for the same punch. He called it his "candy cane punch."

 

[ssullivan80]

I think there is a place for palm-down body shots. Kidney punches and hooks thrown from the clinch, when it's not easy to get a lot of weight on them, seem to benefit from being thrown this way. Roberto Garcia throws a great palm-down wide right to the body, and Sugar Ray Robinson was famous for the same punch. He called it his "candy cane punch."

Agreed! I find palm down hook's to the body very useful for getting around behind the guard of an opponent whose squared up and tucking his elbows tight into his body (I.E: Brandon Rios). Takes my head slightly off center and further back, so i can see the UC counter coming easier and either pull back, pivot out or come around it with a counter hook...... Where it's gotten me in trouble though is that it's harder to keep from over reaching (to far over front foot) with a palm down hook to the body (I.E: all the UC's Katsidis ate vs Marquez) , at least IMO that's the case. GGG uses palm down hooks to the body exceptionally well when he's got an opponent on the ropes and covering up.

 

[Paradigm]

Do we need another one of these threads? :/

my sentiments, exactly. maybe your stance (or memory) has softened over time...

hard to tell but it looks like Orlando Bloom prefers palm down.

 

[Paradigm]

Y'know, I saw a thread like this a year ago or so... and the answers seemed pretty much evenly divided. And everyone was dead certain they were right.

its not like its only one answer to this question..

true, but its not like this question is unique to 2015 either.

 

[Paradigm]

Ha I swear this topic comes up all the time... many threads on it, and I have yet to hear someone say go for the 45degree angle approach. Why does your palm have to be facing the floor OR your body, when it can half do each? This is generally what my hooks look like, but I'm known for doing things "half-a$$ed"...

pick a side, buddy...nobody like a fence straddler.

 

[Paradigm]

this is interesting stuff...probably should be stickied at the top of this forum.

 

[Paradigm]

This is discussed like every two weeks.

more or less...

 

[Paradigm]

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/how-do-you-position-your-fist-hook-1433265/
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/how-do-you-throw-your-hook-1451171/

 

[Paradigm]

The timeless question.

Why isn't their a sticky about this topic?

 

[Paradigm]

triple post, my bad.:redface:

kinda reminds me of the palm down/facing threads.

 

[Paradigm]

So is everyone for the most part agreeing it is acceptable to keep your shoulders up? Nobodys posted yet to tell me I am wrong, and Im just curious of what the general concensus is about the shoulder thing. If im wrong, Im wrong....thats fine...was just curious if I was ass wrong about the shoulder thing as the instructor was telling me or if one school of thought was being completely dismissed as wrong by someone who was shown differently.

im wondering if shoulders up/down should be a thread (or threads) in itself.

 

[Paradigm]

I prefer how I was taught, which was to follow what happens naturally/anatomically (ideally in order to maximize power transfer).

Try this:

Hang your hand at your side, then bring your hand up so your arm is bent at 90 degrees, keeping your elbow fixed at your side...and make a fist.

Look at your fist - your fist should be thumb up, pinky down in relation to the floor.

Now begin slowly raising your elbow out and up until your upper arm is level with your shoulder, and observe what happens to your fist. As your elbow goes up, your fist steadily turns until when your elbow is even with your shoulder, your palm is now facing straight down.

Thats more or less telling you what is the correct form to throw your hooks anatomically and with max power.

Basically, the angle of your fist changes depending on whether you are throwing to the body or the head in order to maximize power.

If you are throwing more as a deceptive hook (i.e. where you need distance and not power) then you can get more range by turning the fist /palm in/ to the head...but its a sloppier hook with less power since you will extending it beyond its ideal range (you are extending the elbow past 90 degrees, and relying more on your bicep for stabilization/power transfer instead of bone/ligament).

Thus, I only throw a hook like that to setup something else, i.e. a low kick to the leg.

nice...makes sense to me, anatomically but im no kinesiology expert.

 

[Paradigm]

no idea but i got to see Chuck's last fight live...which happened to be against Rich:

 

[Paradigm]

i thought it was all preference. In any case, bare knuckles to a skull isnt a good idea.

true...isnt there a saying about striking with a hard surface to a soft target and a soft one to a hard target?

 

[Paradigm]

incorrect... exact opposite. Also, you don't use your bicep at all when throwing a hook, you use the twisting motion of your torso to gain power and speed the hand just goes for a ride. Which is also why you pivot your feet.

how do you keep your arm in that hook position if youre not using the bicep at all?

 

[Paradigm]

i do exactly the opposite to that picture.
my left hook is my money punch,i could not get power punching like that but im speaking for myself only.

Payak before his conversion to being a former Thai monk?

 

[Paradigm]

Is this the old horizontal vs vertical fist question again...
It's been done to death.

Horizontal for long, vertical for close.

 

[Paradigm]

Also, fall fashion.

is this still relevant for the current season? looks and styles change quite frequently in the boxing world.

 

[Paradigm]

WTF? People wipe their asses standing up? How would you even do that? My asscheeks would clench on the stuff I wanted to wipe.

i never even considered it as a possibility until my sophomore year in college. walked into the bathroom and saw my Russian buddy's head sticking up above the stall door. when we questioned him about it, he explained it so matter of factly that i questioned if id been doing it wrong myself the whole time.

since then, ive embraced using both styles, depending on the situation. horses for courses, as they say...

 

[Sinister]

So uhhh, how do you throw a hook now?