The Guns & Worker party

[VivaRevolution]

I just want the government to be smaller, tax less, and not spend so much damn money. Why can't we have that in America?

You should take that up with the Republican party. That has been there platform for going on 40 years now, they have had full control of the government multiple times and have never delivered.

It's almost as if they know they don't have to deliver, because what are you going to do? Vote for taxes, bigger goverment, and more spending?

 

[bobgeese]

Never going to get rid of drugs either. Hasn't stopped anyone from criminalizing them, and doing more harm then good.

So you’re saying criminalizing guns will do more harm than good? I agree.


There’s also the little fact that it’s the 2nd amendment. Good luck changing that. That’s why I don’t really care about the issue. It’s an excercise in useless outrage.

 

[VivaRevolution]

So you’re saying criminalizing guns will do more harm than good? I agree.


There’s also the little fact that it’s the 2nd amendment. Good luck changing that. That’s why I don’t really care about the issue. It’s an excercise in useless outrage.

Yeah, the 4th amendment is a thing as well. How's that going?

 

[bobgeese]

Yeah, the 4th amendment is a thing as well. How's that going?

Well considering actions get thrown out by the courts daily based on it, I’d say pretty well.

Though there is always abuse of power.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Well considering actions get thrown out by the courts daily based on it, I’d say pretty well.

Though there is always abuse of power.

Section 214 of patriot act is unconstitutional, and our corrupt and broken government is not functioning, as proven by our supreme court refusing to hear the case.

 

[bobgeese]

Section 214 of patriot act is unconstitutional, and our corrupt and broken government is not functioning, as proven by our supreme court refusing to hear the case.

So now this is about the patriot act?


You love shifting them goalposts bro, but I appreciate your posting nonetheless.

 

[Patrick Carey]

Not really. He said some things, but it is a party line issue for Democrats. Even a Democrat president is expected to toe the line of the DNC.

I agree that he did not say the things the gun grabbers say when they are not in power. but to pretend he just sat there, twiddled his thumbs, and racist whites were just tripping over themselves to buy guns for no reason is being quite disingenuous

His sandy hook comments were vague enough that anyone that was fearful of the democrats (for rightful reasons at that point) could wonder to themselves what he really was intending to do

 

[HockeyBjj]

It is extremely annoying that the social aspects of politics are also split along the fiscal policy aspects

If I support increasing minimum wage, higher taxes, and more social programs for the poor, why I am also locked into supporting illegal immigration, abortion, and affirmative action college admission?

If I want to see government let corporations off the leash, believing that will benefit my employment opportunities and wages, why couldn't I also get some gun control legislation and let a tranny use whatever bathroom they please?

I hear you OP. The arbitrary 2 party lines shouldn't have the solid social and economic alignments

 

[VivaRevolution]

So now this is about the patriot act?


You love shifting them goalposts bro, but I appreciate your posting nonetheless.

Part of my worry over the 2nd amendment is directly related to the patriot act, yes.

An attack on one constitutional right, is an attack on all constitutional rights.

Setting precedent for the government to openly violate the US Constitution is what we have done with the surveillance state.

I have always been shocked that I don't find more allies amongst the pro-2nd crowd on the right to a warrant, for this very reason.

 

[irish_thug]

Don’t really care about guns, I like them, but you’re never going to get rid of them because there’s so many out there. The point is moot.

While union do good things, they also offer the same protection to the worst employees as the best. They’ long overdue for a restructuring.

Tbh, pretty happy with 3/4 of what Republicans are doing now.

As a Union officer I would say that I spend twice as much time working to protect useless people as do bargaining for the collective.

 

[bobgeese]

Part of my worry over the 2nd amendment is directly related to the patriot act, yes.

An attack on one constitutional right, is an attack on all constitutional rights.

Setting precedent for the government to openly violate the US Constitution is what we have done with the surveillance state.

I have always been shocked that I don't find more allies amongst the pro-2nd crowd on the right to a warrant, for this very reason.

Like I said, it’s not an issue for which my jimmies tingle.

 

[luckyshot]

I am honestly scared of what a dem president, house, and Senate would do on guns if they had control.

What did Democrats do about guns the last time they had the Executive, House and Senate (2008-2010)?

Are you goddamn kidding? The democrats outright say they want gun bans, Obama cried on television and says his biggest disappointment in office was not passing enough additional gun laws. Can you give you give some examples of "stacking the deck"?

What do you mean by "gun bans"? Repealing the Second Amendment? Some democrats may feel that way, but it is a fringe argument. It is no more characteristic of the DNC platform than say, "reconditioning" homosexuals would be of the RNC (even though it is a position that Mike Pence has personally touted).

Obama cried on television and says his biggest disappointment in office was not passing enough additional gun laws.

He cried on television after the Sandy Hook shooting. That's an understandable reaction when grade school kids get obliterated by an AR-15 wielding psycho.

If the "additional laws" he meant were universal background checks, I agree, and so do most Americans. Only a true hack tries to make a partisan issue out of something that enjoys 80-90% popular support.

Poll: 97 percent support background checks for all gun buyers
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-support-background-checks-for-all-gun-buyers

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/

Can you give you give some examples of "stacking the deck"?

Sure. Appointing Neil Gorsuch, for one.

Have a look at his lovely "Frozen Trucker" logic.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/...cargo-judge-neil-gorsuch-ruled-for-the-cargo/

As a Union officer I would say that I spend twice as much time working to protect useless people as do bargaining for the collective.

Time spent is not a one-to-one measure of utility.

I spend a lot more time posting on Sherdog than I do at the doctor's office. That doesn't mean that I "need" my Sherdog account more than my health insurance.

Yeah, unions protect some sub-par employees. However, they also make sure that we ALL don't get paid shit.

By the way, you need to be sensitive about the fact that you are posting from Canada where unions aren't under constant assault from federal and state governments.

It's kind of like when a Canadian makes a conservative healthcare argument to an American... if you aren't ready to give up your universal healthcare, your opinion on the matter is kind of moot to me.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I agree that he did not say the things the gun grabbers say when they are not in power. but to pretend he just sat there, twiddled his thumbs, and racist whites were just tripping over themselves to buy guns for no reason is being quite disingenuous

His sandy hook comments were vague enough that anyone that was fearful of the democrats (for rightful reasons at that point) could wonder to themselves what he really was intending to do

You know how the dems use race to activate minority voters?

Conservative media was doing that with guns under Obama. He did say some things. I won't deny you that. However the reason people were buying guns, was mostly media driven. Obama could have had the Senate put forth 'Gun control" legislation. He had mass shootings he could have exploited. He chose not to. Out of shrewd political calculation, or because he doesn't really care about guns, it doesn't really matter. On the issue of guns, pro 2nd folk should hope (see what I did there) for more democratic presidents like Obama.

Pander if you must, but let's end it there, and refrain from the very unpopular legislation for gun control.

 

[VivaRevolution]

What did Democrats do about guns the last time they had the Executive, House and Senate (2008-2010)?


What do you mean by "gun bans"? Repealing the Second Amendment? Some democrats may feel that way, but it is a fringe argument. It is no more characteristic on the DNC platform than say, "reconditioning" homosexuals would be of the RNC (even though it is a position that Mike Pence has personally touted).


He cried on television after the Sandy Hook shooting. That's an understandable reaction when grade school kids get obliterated by an AR-15 wielding psycho.

If the "additional laws" he meant were universal background checks, I agree, and so do most Americans. Only a true hack tries to make a partisan issue out of something that enjoys 80-90% popular support.

Poll: 97 percent support background checks for all gun buyers
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-support-background-checks-for-all-gun-buyers

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/



Sure. Appointing Neil Gorsuch, for one.

Have a look at his lovely "Frozen Trucker" logic.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/...cargo-judge-neil-gorsuch-ruled-for-the-cargo/

Yes, and I give Obama credit for that.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I just want the government to be smaller, tax less, and not spend so much damn money. Why can't we have that in America?

Everything government attempts is wasteful, inefficient, and/or limits freedom.

Its almost like how responsible individuals live

 

[luckyshot]

Yes, and I give Obama credit for that.

Didn't stop the GOP and NRA from demonizing him on the issue-- to the great profit of gun manufacturers.

 

[VivaRevolution]

As a Union officer I would say that I spend twice as much time working to protect useless people as do bargaining for the collective.

If we let them go after dirt bags, then we couldn't hold management to account for unequal enforcement.

I view it like someone who got away with a crime, because the cops didn't read him his Miranda rights.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Didn't stop the GOP and NRA from demonizing him on the issue-- to the great profit of gun manufacturers.

Agreed.

Apparently though, the Democratic establishment has decided that guns are a issue they want to make central to the Democratic platform.

Don't ask me why. I think it is a losing issue for Democrats.

 

[LMP]

It sucks for people that are center. It feels like this country expects you to fall right down party lines. While I feel the GOP sucks and I don't believe I will vote for a GOP candidate ever again, I'm not real happy with the identity politics of the democrats either. Our government should be a reflection of the will of the people, I don't think we get that, with only two parties having so much power in this country.

 

[panamaican]

But if you notice I didn't say "pro corporation". I said pro ownership and pro entrepreneurship. It seems to me that the ultimate, long term solution to corporate domination...that doesn't result in some for of centralized control and state domination...is to to increase ownership of property, resources, and businesses for the "little guy".

Alot of the policies that are meant to regulate large corporations only end up stifling and regulating small businesses and entrepreneurs as they don't have the accountants, lobbyists, and resources to exploit loopholes, pay extra frees, and comply with increasing regulations. You actually end up stifling competition and helping large corporations monopolize everything by squeezing out the little guy with "pro worker" policies.

You have that incorrect.

The regulations that stifle small businesses and entrepreneurs are supported by large corporations precisely because they give them an advantage of new entrants to their industry. The accountants and the lawyers who work for the large corporations largely kill the bills that would negatively impact large corporations.

You cannot support pro-worker policies by promoting pro-ownership/entrepreneurship, the 2 sides sit on opposite sides of the negotiating table. The balance is out of whack so ownership/entrepreneurship has to take a backseat to pro-worker policies in the near term. Strengthening both at this stage just reinforces the gap.

Unless everyone is a sole proprietor or in partnerships that never grow to hiring staff, you're going to have to reinforce the workers to give them better leverage against the large corporations.