The Future GOAT

[DyinHawaiian]

What's laughable about that? It's true! You cant call yourself the greatest of all time by beating up smaller and older people than you! That's what a bully does.

So Weidman will never be GOAT is what you're saying. A 40 year old, a guy Jones beat 3 years ago, a 36 year old and a 37 year old welterweight

Jones just outwrestled one of the best wrestlers on the planet and dominated one the top strikers at heavyweight. I'm a fan of Weidman, but he has nothing for Jones. He's like a middleweight Rampage.

 

[gspieler]

Depends.

Matt Hughes was looked at as the greatest WW of all time when GSP beat him -lost to him as well of course, but that actually lends credit to Hughes being damn good and what was so convincing about GSP taking him apart the second time.

Penn was and by some still is viewed as the greatest LW of all time, and by many one of MMA most 'talented' fighters p4p ever who proved fighting at WW wasn't a problem for him by beating the already mentioned Hughes at that weight class and GSP beat him the 1st time they fought (was close tho) and completely humiliated him the 2nd time they fought- and Penn still went on to dominate at LW for a few fights after GSP made him quit in the 2nd fight.

Cro-Cop and Nog? Great all time fighters, but I don't think either of them was regarded as the best ever in the sport or at their weight class when Fedor beat them. That said, its fair to mention them.


I'm not saying GSP is the GOAT btw, I think naming one guy as the GOAT is too subjective, at least for me. Was just naming a specific thing on GSP's resume that I think stands out above other things.

Both Nog and Hughes are generally considered the 2nd-best all-time in their respective weight classes. Both GSP and Fedor beat them in their primes. Nog was actually the p4p king at the time Fedor dethroned him; I don't think the same thing can be said about Hughes. But the comparison is certainly close enough.

As for Cro Cop, he is easily a top ten hw all-time, and at the time Fedor fought him, was on a tear and ranked 2-3, behind Fedor. While BJ has had his share of moments at ww, his best work was clearly done at lw, and he was always inconsistent at ww(mostly due to being undersized).

 

[Breaducce]

Depends.

Matt Hughes was looked at as the greatest WW of all time when GSP beat him -lost to him as well of course, but that actually lends credit to Hughes being damn good and what was so convincing about GSP taking him apart the second time.

Penn was and by some still is viewed as the greatest LW of all time, and by many one of MMA most 'talented' fighters p4p ever who proved fighting at WW wasn't a problem for him by beating the already mentioned Hughes at that weight class and GSP beat him the 1st time they fought (was close tho) and completely humiliated him the 2nd time they fought- and Penn still went on to dominate at LW for a few fights after GSP made him quit in the 2nd fight.

Cro-Cop and Nog? Great all time fighters, but I don't think either of them was regarded as the best ever in the sport or at their weight class when Fedor beat them. That said, its fair to mention them.


I'm not saying GSP is the GOAT btw, I think naming one guy as the GOAT is too subjective, at least for me. Was just naming a specific thing on GSP's resume that I think stands out above other things.

Those two stand out quite a bit ( Hughes and Penn) but I question the weight of Koscheck on his resume, and I think Jon's resume has a more even spread of just complete murderers. Glover, Machida, DC, Gus, Shogun, Rashad, Vitor, Rampage is just a gauntlet of problems as far as challengers go. And, although GSP's gift was fighting to his opponents weakness's I think Jon's ability to best them at their strengths should weighted as well.

 

[KingGooba]

Depends.

Matt Hughes was looked at as the greatest WW of all time when GSP beat him -lost to him as well of course, but that actually lends credit to Hughes being damn good and what was so convincing about GSP taking him apart the second time.

Penn was and by some still is viewed as the greatest LW of all time, and by many one of MMA most 'talented' fighters p4p ever who proved fighting at WW wasn't a problem for him by beating the already mentioned Hughes at that weight class and GSP beat him the 1st time they fought (was close tho) and completely humiliated him the 2nd time they fought- and Penn still went on to dominate at LW for a few fights after GSP made him quit in the 2nd fight.

Cro-Cop and Nog? Great all time fighters, but I don't think either of them was regarded as the best ever in the sport or at their weight class when Fedor beat them. That said, its fair to mention them.


I'm not saying GSP is the GOAT btw, I think naming one guy as the GOAT is too subjective, at least for me. Was just naming a specific thing on GSP's resume that I think stands out above other things.

The first time Fedor neat Nog, Nog was thought to be unbeatable and pretty much the best heavyweight ever. Also, when Fedor beat CroCop, CroCop was without a doubt considered the best stand up fighter of all the heavyweights and looked great up to the fight with Fedor..

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

So Weidman will never be GOAT is what you're saying. A 40 year old, a guy Jones beat 3 years ago, a 36 year old and a 37 year old welterweight

Jones just outwrestled one of the best wrestlers on the planet and dominated one the top strikers at heavyweight. I'm a fan of Weidman, but he has nothing for Jones. He's like a middleweight Rampage.

I don't mean to interupt but.. you really can't see what he's doing here?


Really?

 

[Sammy Bananas]

Franklin I'll give you, but Hendo was never viewed as the best ever -and certainly wasn't when he fought Andy. Hendo, imo, has never been reveared in any of his weighclasses the way Penn and Hughes are/were.


But again, its subjective and of course there are names for the top guys ever that can be brought up resume wise, I get that.

You have a point, but I just think Henderson was very major win at that time based on holding the two Pride belts simultaneously. Still a feat that has not been accomplished by anyone else.

 

[FlexingTiger]

I don't even consider him Goat of the lhw division. A couple of those guys he's beaten would beat him in their primes!

 

[DyinHawaiian]

I don't mean to interupt but.. you really can't see what he's doing here?


Really?

Yeah, I'll just give up. I forgot this guy was a total retard.

 

[Sammy Bananas]

I'm a fan of Weidman, but he has nothing for Jones. He's like a middleweight Rampage.

Let's not get ridiculous. Yes he has nothing for Jones, but he is one of the most complete mixed martial artists competing today.

He is also one dui away from being "too big for his weight class".

 

[FlexingTiger]

So Weidman will never be GOAT is what you're saying. A 40 year old, a guy Jones beat 3 years ago, a 36 year old and a 37 year old welterweight

Jones just outwrestled one of the best wrestlers on the planet and dominated one the top strikers at heavyweight. I'm a fan of Weidman, but he has nothing for Jones. He's like a middleweight Rampage.

Jones didnt outwrestle anybody. He took a TIMID smaller older DC down a couple times in a fight. Weidman is bigger and younger than DC and he's a better striker with knockout power! That would be a harder fight than any fight he's ever had and that's a guy who's smaller than him. Jones needs to fight people that are younger and closer in size to him that want to win as much as him!

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Both Nog and Hughes are generally considered the 2nd-best all-time in their respective weight classes. Both GSP and Fedor beat them in their primes. Nog was actually the p4p king at the time Fedor dethroned him; I don't think the same thing can be said about Hughes. But the comparison is certainly close enough.

As for Cro Cop, he is easily a top ten hw all-time, and at the time Fedor fought him, was on a tear and ranked 2-3, behind Fedor. While BJ has had his share of moments at ww, his best work was clearly done at lw, and he was always inconsistent at ww(mostly due to being undersized).

The first time Fedor neat Nog, Nog was thought to be unbeatable and pretty much the best heavyweight ever. Also, when Fedor beat CroCop, CroCop was without a doubt considered the best stand up fighter of all the heavyweights and looked great up to the fight with Fedor..

The common thread is the way they were viewed and are currently viwed looking back (we are granted this hindsite in the conversation to be able to look back, which is nice) and what they had accomplished up until the moments when the respective fighters we're talking about came along and toppled them.

Fedor, if I am not mistaken, was considered above both those guys when they fought -Nog I'm fuzzy on at that point so, I'll leave that to you guys.


Hughes and Penn no question were already considered the best and were on runs supporting that claim when GSP came along and scored victories over them -Fedor was above both Cro-Cop and Nog in the minds of many at the points they met up (again, I might be missing a ranking here with Nog, so I'll allow for that)

I know its a small discrepancy in a way, so this all comes full circle and back to it being subjective and I'll leave it at this: to me (just my opinion of course) GSP's victories over Penn and Hughes in accordance to when they occurred, are more impressive to me than Fedors victories over Nog and Cro-Cop. I know this won't be popular, but thats fine, thats why we all have our own opinions that allow us to have these types of discussions.

 

[DyinHawaiian]

Let's not get ridiculous. Yes he has nothing for Jones, but he is one of the most complete mixed martial artists competing today.

He is also one dui away from being "too big for his weight class".

I meant ''middleweight Rampage'' in terms of size and what Weidman would look like at LHW, should've specified that.

 

[trident]

Man, it's a hard one, and it's easy to break each fighter down with negatives. Jones has fought a lot of middle weights, Aldo only fights a degree harder than his opponent.

For me, it comes down to how the champ defends the mountain. Jose and GSP, and even Silva to an extent just fight to keep you off the mountain top. Jones, Cain and even Pettis come down the mountain a bit and fight you there. They don't let you up to the top to fight. I respect that more.

Cain and Pettis have been injured a lot. Jones has defended a lot. You had two fighters, Shogun and Machida and they traded the belt, and then you had Jones come in and wreck them something fucking awful.

And since then he has fucked everyone up at their game. I just don't see Aldo passing that performance level despite being just as dominate of a champ. And I don't think anyone beats Aldo either.

But I put my money on Bones. Watch him never fight again and go on some religious journey.

 

[Breaducce]

There's a number of reasons why I don't think Jones is even in the GOAT discussion atm, one of them being his significant size advantage over the majority of his opponents. If he moves up and claims the hw strap, it would at least put him in the discussion to me. As of now, I simply consider him the GOAT lhw.

What would Jones have to do to solidify himself as the GOAT to you than. In my eyes if he continues his LHW tear into his early thirties that would do it. Success at HW, much less a HW strap would be icing on the cake. This is similar to Aldo, moving up to LW and having success and winning the strap.

 

[Tearjerker]

Where were those guys ranked when Hunt fought/beat them? Thats more what this would be about. GSP was literally fighting and beating the very best there was while they were highly ranked because a lot of it was fighting for or defending a belt.

If I'm not mistaken, GSP and Silva have some of the most wins over ranked oppositiopn of all-time. Fedor is/was up there as well but its been a while since I've seen anyone look into that.

You're thinking of Rester's Thread http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/documented-top-ten-wins-mma-fighters-pride-ufc-2166169/

And yes you are right about it going

GSP
Anderson


Fedor






Everyone else

 

[trident]

This messianic-obsessed mentality makes MMA less credible.

You guys announce different "GOATS" every two years or so, it got old already. Just stop.

It's a forum. We have nothing better to do. Let the people have their fun!

 

[FlexingTiger]

Ok lets do Jon Jones vs Ben Rothwell or Meathead for his 15th place GOAT status at best!

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Those two stand out quite a bit ( Hughes and Penn) but I question the weight of Koscheck on his resume, and I think Jon's resume has a more even spread of just complete murderers. Glover, Machida, DC, Gus, Shogun, Rashad, Vitor, Rampage is just a gauntlet of problems as far as challengers go. And, although GSP's gift was fighting to his opponents weakness's I think Jon's ability to best them at their strengths should weighted as well.

Yeah, Jones has a great resume, there is no arguing that -all these guys have great resumes at the end of the day for the record (GSP, Fedor, Silva, Jones, Aldo)

You have a point, but I just think Henderson was very major win at that time based on holding the two Pride belts simultaneously. Still a feat that has not been accomplished by anyone else.

No question. And when I used to discuss MMA a lot more on this board or other boards (I don't care for the sport as much these days as I once did) I would mention this victory in Silva's favor myself in discussions like this.

At the end of the day, given what Hendo had already done, and was still on his way to doing, its a great win on Andy's overall resume for sure.

 

[FlexingTiger]

What would Jones have to do to solidify himself as the GOAT to you than. In my eyes if he continues his LHW tear into his early thirties that would do it. Success at HW, much less a HW strap would be icing on the cake. This is similar to Aldo, moving up to LW and having success and winning the strap.

Beat Meathead or Rothwell for 15th place GOAT status.

 

[gspieler]

What would Jones have to do to solidify himself as the GOAT to you than. In my eyes if he continues his LHW tear into his early thirties that would do it. Success at HW, much less a HW strap would be icing on the cake. This is similar to Aldo, moving up to LW and having success and winning the strap.

Win the hw, defend it several times, and do so in the absence of controversy(juicing, relying on dirty tactics to win, etc). Go back and look at the staredown pics of Jones and most of his opponents. He dwarfs them. And arguably the one elite opponent he didn't dwarf, the fight was close enough to be called either way. And if guys the size fo Fedor, Cain, Cro Cop can dominate at hw, there's no reason Jones can't if he is indeed the GOAT.