I appreciate the stuff you've brought to the thread. Before this I was pretty certain that Wing Chun was absolute garbage. But from the stuff you and Sinister posted it's obvious that well trained Wing Chun is very dangerous in the situations it's designed for. Wing Chun guys can develop enormous power and speed in their range. My critique is that Wing Chun only really has one effective range and as a system doesn't really have any way to force their opponents into that range. A trained combat sports athlete could probably do some serious damage in the mid-range with the Wing Chun mindset and system because they'd already have their own methods of getting to the range Wing Chun is effective in.
But the question still remains would it be more cost-effective to invest the time to learn the Wing Chun system instead of just investing the time to become more proficient at the systems they already train.
Well thats good. A more open minded and more sensible response about Wing Chun on an mma forum.
As u say it is clearly true
"Its obvious well trained wing chun is very dangerous for the situations its designed for".
Well said.
And what are those situations - barehanded without gloves, if someone or more than one person attacks you. Finish them quickly in close. A real fight is not in and out like sparring. It will be more like WC.
Wing Chun really only has one range that it's effective in. If they're not in your face machine-gunning punches and blocks they're pretty much screwed. Even a hobbyist boxer will have an understanding of outfighting, midfighting, and infighting whereas the wing chun guy will be confined to its one range.
If a boxer puts their forehead in a wing chun guys throat and fires off right uppercuts and left hooks with no space the wing chun guy is screwed. If a boxer out fights and only lands long range hooks or choice one-twos, the wing chun guy is screwed; and the boxer will have such an advantage because the wing chun style of fighting stance completely telegraphs their offensive and defensive options unlike a boxer's stance. Lyte Burly was 100% accurate when he said wing chun tells you what their weapons are before they use them. It's really easy for a boxer to read and counter their weapons.
The only situation where a wing chun guy can win is mid-fighting and only if he can get his offense going before the boxer knocks him the fuck out with something. Yeah you can say that wing chun has side kicks, groin kicks, and knee stomps but they don't spend any appreciable time training them compared to their whirling dervish style of blocks and short strikes. I'd take a boxer outfighting over a wing chun guy's kicking pedigree 9/10 times.
The only real exception to this are the wing chun guys who train a lot of sweeps. I could 100% see a skilled wing chun guy footsweeping a boxer and taking them down. Like in the first video Sinister posted. But even then it's a toss up because wing chun doesn't train any appreciable ground work so they might not even have an advantage over a boxer they managed to foot sweep to the ground. When you add in that most boxers have done some cross training with wrestling/BJJ/Judo or are at least more athletic than average compared to the miniscule amount of physical preparation Wing Chun guys put in, well, you're fucked.
Old school Kung Fu guys who train a shit ton of physical prep, spar in live situations, and have a ton of aggression from their mental game and Qi concepts will probably fare a lot better. But I'd still pick the average boxer over the average Kung Fu guy any day.
Some little known facts about kung fu are the depth of technical understanding, physical preparation, and mental game they have. Old school Kung Fu has concepts like Critical Distance which is their way of hitting you without being hit and their understanding of the different distances/ranges of combat.
They spend a lot of time cultivating aggression with their idea of Qi and their self-defense first focus. Obviously the self defense mcdojos are trash but legit Kung Fu has some pretty brutal and intense short bouts of sparring. They don't go hard often but when they do go hard it's usually close to 100%.
When you combine the insane amount of strength, cardio, and flexibility Kung Fu prescribes you start building pretty effective fighters.
But as always it takes an exceptional Kung Fu or Wing Chun guy to beat a below average Combat Sports athlete.
Your other points are a bit hit and miss but I'll respond to some here.
- Yes I agree WC is mainly focussed on in-fighting and specializes there. I dont see them claiming otherwise, no system is complete by itself.
- In very close range vs boxer? WC is not just linear but circular. Elbow time, downward, diagonal or horizontal. Boxer is getting fucked up without a ref to break it or space to move. Maybe a headbutt would work.
- Yes footsweeps in WC are effective. No need to follow them to the ground. Soccer kick or stomp or rapid strikes when they are down or trying to get up - game over.
- Yes a well know limitation of WC is it trains only against WC. Bring in boxers and train chi sau range it can adapt nicely. WC can already be done like dirty boxing in close with the hand parrying and control.
- It can also be done with more clinch work and collar and elbow, there are ma y ways of fighting with WC like there are many styles of boxing.
- most boxers train Judo or BJJ? Unlikely. But in that event cross training a striking with grappling art is recommended for all. And I personally feel Asian martialarts like Judo and BJJ gel much better with WC than with boxing.
- Yes old school kung fu and alot of old time training is badass and hardcore. Alot of it makes u much more combat conditioned than any modern sport combat training.
Also for the record, I see Phillip Bayer beating Lyte Burly in short and violent order once he gets to close range. If Burly can keep him at range maybe a diffetrnt story, but WC has nasty kicks as well altho true they often dont spend enough time training them. But the problem fighting a guy like that is once u give them an opening at that range...it is over.
Lyte Burly also uses WC with boxing which can be great also. But very good WC is super dangerous in close.
Also, even at an older age, he KO's Chuck Liddell now in less than 10 seconds altho perhaps not much of an achievent since Chuck has no chin lol.
But maybe there is sense in this type of training if u want your martial arts to work when ur older as well eh?
