The Frode post good kung fu thread.

[Sinister]

I know it's fun to hate on Lyte Burly around here, but just take a listen to him discussing holes in Wing Chun:

 

[TheMaster]

I know it's fun to hate on Lyte Burly around here, but just take a listen to him discussing holes in Wing Chun:

A good critique with valid points.
But the guys WC is typical hobbyist level and low.
Few people really understand WC sadly

If you want to use WC effectively in close u cant stand there like an idiot, u have to strike like this.



A quick strike combination to the jaw, face, throat or solar plexus to finish.
Fighting a high level WC guy in close when u feel the power they can generate also, is a nightmare.

 

[SandisLL]

Pretty entertaining to read again.

So, other arts doesn't have stuff like these mentioned strikes? Really? <45>

At second, I have no doubts, that his level is good. In striking arts. I don't care about fanatics and their insults.

 

[SandisLL]

strike combination to the jaw, face, throat or solar plexus to finish.

This for example.
Really this is exclusive to art WC?

About levels, I think he is available to discuss in person with him his level.

 

[General_Speckz]

A good critique with valid points.
But the guys WC is typical hobbyist level and low.
Few people really understand WC sadly

If you want to use WC effectively in close u cant stand there like an idiot, u have to strike like this.



A quick strike combination to the jaw, face, throat or solar plexus to finish.
Fighting a high level WC guy in close when u feel the power they can generate also, is a nightmare.

I don't know much about lyte burly but just judging from watching both videos he looks like he's wreck your old guy because he grabs their arms.

Wearing boxing gloves may be a different story.

That you would miss this detail is really weird to me and makes me think you have some type of learning disability.

 

[franklinstower]

I practice Xing Yi. I think it can work well as a stand alone art or as a part of MMA training and is a really good but overlooked TMA.

It is mostly punching range though. Not many kicks except to the groin or knee..

 

[Maxwell44]

Wing Chun really only has one range that it's effective in. If they're not in your face machine-gunning punches and blocks they're pretty much screwed. Even a hobbyist boxer will have an understanding of outfighting, midfighting, and infighting whereas the wing chun guy will be confined to its one range.

If a boxer puts their forehead in a wing chun guys throat and fires off right uppercuts and left hooks with no space the wing chun guy is screwed. If a boxer out fights and only lands long range hooks or choice one-twos, the wing chun guy is screwed; and the boxer will have such an advantage because the wing chun style of fighting stance completely telegraphs their offensive and defensive options unlike a boxer's stance. Lyte Burly was 100% accurate when he said wing chun tells you what their weapons are before they use them. It's really easy for a boxer to read and counter their weapons.

The only situation where a wing chun guy can win is mid-fighting and only if he can get his offense going before the boxer knocks him the fuck out with something. Yeah you can say that wing chun has side kicks, groin kicks, and knee stomps but they don't spend any appreciable time training them compared to their whirling dervish style of blocks and short strikes. I'd take a boxer outfighting over a wing chun guy's kicking pedigree 9/10 times.

The only real exception to this are the wing chun guys who train a lot of sweeps. I could 100% see a skilled wing chun guy footsweeping a boxer and taking them down. Like in the first video Sinister posted. But even then it's a toss up because wing chun doesn't train any appreciable ground work so they might not even have an advantage over a boxer they managed to foot sweep to the ground. When you add in that most boxers have done some cross training with wrestling/BJJ/Judo or are at least more athletic than average compared to the miniscule amount of physical preparation Wing Chun guys put in, well, you're fucked.

Old school Kung Fu guys who train a shit ton of physical prep, spar in live situations, and have a ton of aggression from their mental game and Qi concepts will probably fare a lot better. But I'd still pick the average boxer over the average Kung Fu guy any day.

Some little known facts about kung fu are the depth of technical understanding, physical preparation, and mental game they have. Old school Kung Fu has concepts like Critical Distance which is their way of hitting you without being hit and their understanding of the different distances/ranges of combat.

They spend a lot of time cultivating aggression with their idea of Qi and their self-defense first focus. Obviously the self defense mcdojos are trash but legit Kung Fu has some pretty brutal and intense short bouts of sparring. They don't go hard often but when they do go hard it's usually close to 100%.

When you combine the insane amount of strength, cardio, and flexibility Kung Fu prescribes you start building pretty effective fighters.

But as always it takes an exceptional Kung Fu or Wing Chun guy to beat a below average Combat Sports athlete.

 

[Maxwell44]

A good critique with valid points.
But the guys WC is typical hobbyist level and low.
Few people really understand WC sadly

If you want to use WC effectively in close u cant stand there like an idiot, u have to strike like this.

A quick strike combination to the jaw, face, throat or solar plexus to finish.
Fighting a high level WC guy in close when u feel the power they can generate also, is a nightmare.

Yeah the guy in the video can probably fight well in his one range, but it's not like a boxer doesn't understand range. Unless a boxer wants to be there inside fighting or is stuck in a small room with few escapes, you're probably not going to get that close to them. Every boxer has an understanding of how to jab and circle and every boxer trains keeping their opponent at their ideal range for their style. WC needs everything to go right for them to win where Boxing needs everything to go wrong for them to lose.

 

[SandisLL]

Well, for sport usage aren't iteresting posts about throat striking with open hands etc stuff.
If it is desirable here, i can post bunch of shit form other arts....

Kung fu mens Art. Even art to read...
Yes, for combat China have xxx styles of arts and some of them are more close to bareknuckle K1. Some xxx are even non contact....

About ability to beat a boxer, that is frequent claim in forums, well.
Majority of non contact masters doesn't know what stuff even proper blow from boxer's apprentice on upper arm is.
And especially beautiful stuff is to dream, that after 1 - 3 failures attack will be continued in previous way and Linear to be still comfortable.

Beautiful is also opinion about streets. Far more entertaining.
Sadly isn't legally available to test vs standart NATO h2h or Combat Sambo for self defense ( nor for sport ) without any rules and on the street surface.
Stances and legs might be quickly healed with service boots, and if so deadly, then really prepare ICU and morque.
Quite boring to read about death strikes.
Someone thinks that anatomy courses are unknown stuff for h2h systems designers for example? Or other TMAs.

 

[franklinstower]

Well, for sport usage aren't iteresting posts about throat striking with open hands etc stuff.
If it is desirable here, i can post bunch of shit form other arts....

Kung fu mens Art. Even art to read...
Yes, for combat China have xxx styles of arts and some of them are more close to bareknuckle K1. Some xxx are even non contact....

About ability to beat a boxer, that is frequent claim in forums, well.
Majority of non contact masters doesn't know what stuff even proper blow from boxer's apprentice on upper arm is.
And especially beautiful stuff is to dream, that after 1 - 3 failures attack will be continued in previous way and Linear to be still comfortable.

Beautiful is also opinion about streets. Far more entertaining.
Sadly isn't legally available to test vs standart NATO h2h or Combat Sambo for self defense ( nor for sport ) without any rules and on the street surface.
Stances and legs might be quickly healed with service boots, and if so deadly, then really prepare ICU and morque.
Quite boring to read about death strikes.
Someone thinks that anatomy courses are unknown stuff for h2h systems designers for example? Or other TMAs.

The posts you make are pretty hard to understand man. What is your first language?

 

[SandisLL]

Yup, even chun has some usable stuff I think.
There's also plenty xxx of other kung fu arts and I don't think that all are not usable.

 

[SandisLL]

The posts you make are pretty hard to understand man. What is your first language?

Yup, I know that my english isn't good, but my text is enough clear, short and simple.

BTW, I had beared KS and Fighter Twister texts until I put them in ignore list.

Today I'll do it with your profile and The Master ( damn, I beared too long and this decision rised more than 2 months ).

 

[franklinstower]

Yup, I know that my english isn't good, but my text is enough clear, short and simple.

BTW, I had beared KS and Fighter Twister texts until I put them in ignore list.

Today I'll do it with your profile and The Master ( damn, I beared too long and this decision rised more than 2 months ).

Im not picking on you man. I was just asking.

 

[SandisLL]

What you didn't get?
I think, that I value my time a bit.

You can't use the same stuff and except the same linear attacks 3 - 5 in row.
Also you in another thread mentioned different combat art that you learned.
I think that Lyte told valuable stuff in this video.
-
Yup, for The Master I don't have time anymore, this grew up for 2 months and today for me is enough.

 

[SandisLL]

I don't know much about lyte burly but just judging from watching both videos he looks like he's wreck your old guy because he grabs their arms.

Wearing boxing gloves may be a different story.

That you would miss this detail is really weird to me and makes me think you have some type of learning disability.

As far as I had read, chun exactly was designed for barehands and most likely for self defense.
So there after first striking attempts couter actions are excepted? Not to do the same things long in row?
And with a boxer, of course, if first 1 - 3 the same strikes easily defeated, who will believe that a boxer will continue the same attack in long row of attempts?

I don't think that chun doesn't work at all, but especially to use just pure chun with boxing gloves on against a boxer doesn't looks good idea.
Mix boxing with chun, maybe yes.

 

[General_Speckz]

As far as I had read, chun exactly was designed for barehands and most likely for self defense.
So there after first striking attempts couter actions are excepted? Not to do the same things long in row?
And with a boxer, of course, if first 1 - 3 the same strikes easily defeated, who will believe that a boxer will continue the same attack in long row of attempts?

I don't think that chun doesn't work at all, but especially to use just pure chun with boxing gloves on against a boxer doesn't looks good idea.
Mix boxing with chun, maybe yes.

Yeah I didn't say Chun doesn't work at all. It's just not as good as the alternatives with someone's time as others have mentioned in other threads. I don't disagree with anything you said, I think.

The footwork of boxing with emphasis of pushing back with the lead foot as a convenient option is really valuable and I like how LB highlighted that in his video as well. Too many inexperienced people don't recognize this and just flail at each other without playing with the range or ducking and slipping. ( Which if you consider WC's footwork can be entirely effective if facing that sort of person.) I guess LB is also a proponent of these boxing techniques.

Yeah it seems like WC is more of an art to complement boxing or even other arts i mentioned than the other way around, which is why it's so easy for me to step on primary WC practitioner's feet. They gotta eat too, though so I'll probably lighten up after getting it off my chest.


Why are you ignoring everybody? You are a bit hard to understand sometimes and seem like you look for conflict. Just my opinion.

 

[SandisLL]

Well, stuff about throats etc sometimes might made me angry when I'm drunk a bit,LOL.

 

[Maxwell44]

A good critique with valid points.
But the guys WC is typical hobbyist level and low.
Few people really understand WC sadly

If you want to use WC effectively in close u cant stand there like an idiot, u have to strike like this.



A quick strike combination to the jaw, face, throat or solar plexus to finish.
Fighting a high level WC guy in close when u feel the power they can generate also, is a nightmare.

I appreciate the stuff you've brought to the thread. Before this I was pretty certain that Wing Chun was absolute garbage. But from the stuff you and Sinister posted it's obvious that well trained Wing Chun is very dangerous in the situations it's designed for. Wing Chun guys can develop enormous power and speed in their range. My critique is that Wing Chun only really has one effective range and as a system doesn't really have any way to force their opponents into that range. A trained combat sports athlete could probably do some serious damage in the mid-range with the Wing Chun mindset and system because they'd already have their own methods of getting to the range Wing Chun is effective in.

But the question still remains would it be more cost-effective to invest the time to learn the Wing Chun system instead of just investing the time to become more proficient at the systems they already train.

 

[Maxwell44]

As far as I had read, chun exactly was designed for barehands and most likely for self defense.
So there after first striking attempts couter actions are excepted? Not to do the same things long in row?
And with a boxer, of course, if first 1 - 3 the same strikes easily defeated, who will believe that a boxer will continue the same attack in long row of attempts?

I don't think that chun doesn't work at all, but especially to use just pure chun with boxing gloves on against a boxer doesn't looks good idea.
Mix boxing with chun, maybe yes.

Yeah I think we came to the same conclusion as far as mixing chun with other arts. But is it really worth learning an art that is almost completely predicated on learning other arts for it to be effective? The only time I could see WC being effective on its own is against a largely untrained fighter; there'd have to be a massive gap in skill between the WC guy and the guy they're fighting for the WC guy to be successful.

 

[General_Speckz]

Well, stuff about throats etc sometimes might made me angry when I'm drunk a bit,LOL.

Good lord man are you drinking alone on the Internet? No wonder, I worked with a lot of Taiwanese people out in California and their normally good English would turn really bad after a night of drinking. Don't drink alone at least, no good can come from it.