The Dems Don't Get It: How liberalism without a spine gave way to a party without a brain or soul

[bushman505]

You are the one who started the but but after realizing that indeed Republican Administrations have had many more criminal convictions than Democratic administrations. Why is that?
Why are Republican administrations so in love with selling weapons and giving access to America's enemies like Trump and Reagan?
Why are Republican administrations like Nixon and Reagan willing to cut deals with Americas enemies that leads to thousands of American deaths?
Why do Republican administrations like Trump's get their hands get caught in the cookie jar so much?
Most of all despite everything mentioned do Republicans still believe they have the right to question others patriotism?

Just stop, didn’t read any of that shit.

 

[58miles]

Just stop, didn’t read any of that shit.

That's okay it was just a bunch of facts that made you and your arguments look silly, like for example Republican administrations constantly get caught making backdoor deals with America's enemies.

 

[bushman505]

That's okay it was just a bunch of facts that made you and your arguments look silly, like for example Republican administrations constantly get caught making backdoor deals with America's enemies.

More liberal lies. Shoosh.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

If there was any actual mention of physical violence - or physical confrontation at all - I might be able to give you some slack.

I already noted the reason the metaphor excuse is bullshit is because you have openly supported violent acts in your previous posts and openly support dictators who used violent means to push their politics ergo its entirely reasonable you were being ridiculous yet again. Strange i know how past behavior often shows a strong indication of what ones future and current behavior is. Pleeeease by all means lower your well educated brain to the level of us mere mma forum posters and grasp this.

And while you're at it you can also explain how the Maga hat boy is a shitty person and how being indifferent to violence against a teenager is a sensible position? It's amusing how you avoided this entirely. Yet agann You have a habit of just tuning out various criticisms of your beliefs and vanishing from the conversation. I wonder why that is?

And no this is no attempting at diverting. I am highlighting how your argument is flawed from its core due to your own constant bias and crude form of thought.

I vaguely remember you desperately lobbing personal attacks once, or maybe twice, before, but you'll have to refresh my memory. But, yes, I do recall thinking you were a moron conservative. You are doing little to persuade me otherwise right now.

I've been critical of Communism and in particular some of the leaders you attempted to praise as the " good ones" due to their totalitarian and violent nature as well as your outright ignorance on their propaganda they have spread in various areas to show that they have left their countries in a better state.

Further I am obviously critical of your blatant partisan bias and espousing violence as a tool in politics.

So given these two things how exactly does that make me a conservative under any sense of the word?
I want an actual direct answer from you on this not another case of Trotsky done fucked up and will pretend like it didn't happen. As of right now you're not different that the hard righties who throw "socialist!" around haphazardly at anyone who disagrees with them.

Would you care to deconstruct your criticism so we can have a conversation that has a bit more detail and perhaps a touch more punctuation?

Why? So you can go on one simple rant like you always do that amounts to little more that
" Ah thats rubbish you haven't read as much as I have on the matter!" Look what you already did with attempting to brush off the Ford/ Kavanaugh fiasco. That alone is a cause for Democrats to self reflect on their party. And you did it again with "Oh it's laughable to say Hillary is as bad as the republicans."

I remember you even creating these talking points that amounted to little more than Hillary wouldn't have done this and this and this like Trump and one included her not fucking with the unions. Even though she has an outright history of doing just that Lol! And unions endorsing her in this run caused rifts among them. So its no small wonder you think shes not as bad when you are outright ignorant on her past behavior and are too proud to admit you are.

This is no different than when other posters here noted it was nonsensical of you to praise Che and call him a good person when hes advocating nuclear war and playing judge,jury,and executioner with his political rivals. Or when actual god damn Cubans from god damn Cuba tell you the health care for the common man is shit there.

You just shut down, hurl the same tired insults, vanish from the discussion etc,etc. And again this highlights what is wrong with the Democratic party and politics in general. There is a complete lack of being able to admit when one is wrong and then changing it.

As for being intimidated dear Trots no just no. Theres nothing scary about a lawyer on a karate forum who somehow can't compose himself well enough to keep from being dubbed and put in time out. Hilarious would be a more fitting word than intimidating.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The divisions seem to be what keeps the left from being ascendant, and keeps me from getting onboard.

I would like to see more Great Society style emphasis on tangible help for the lower classes without the madness and obsession with social engineering and zeitgeist for destroying traditional culture.

As someone who is socially fairly conservative, but economically more inclined towards the left, I am left with a choice between values and principles, or a party that "may" do the right thing economically, while actively trying to undermine my values and principles.

This is a book I intend to read on the struggle between those who would like to embrace more of the left, yet find the doors are often closed and the drivers behind the progressive movement, even to a progressive Christian, are not excited to have a progressive Christian along for the ride: https://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Hope-Lessons-Learned-America/dp/071808232X

I haven't read it yet, but read a few reviews and excerpts that might illustrate this dilemma.

I'm in the same boat. I generally hold traditional values on social issues, but I'm pretty altruistic and open to more left leaning or *gasp* socialistic economic policies. I just can't get onboard with democrats because of all the virtue signalling and identity politics that i'm bombarded with on social media every day. This is a problem that I could probably fix for myself by blocking more shit on facebook and youtube, but I guess I enjoy my rage boners.

I'm coming around to this position but I still tend to vote Dem because I think their economic policies are just better and will have a more concrete impact on people's lives. Maybe its my contrarian instinct that has led me here since being socially conservative is a surefire way to distinguish oneself from most modern American leftists but whatever the case its certainly a bone of contention between myself and some of my leftist peers. I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to social issues though, I really think the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to a lot of the excesses and degeneracy of the left.

The issue with the Democratic party is that at its core its a center-right party with leftists voting for them merely because there isnt any other option.

That's a key point. What's more, the fact that the Dems wink at certain progressive social policies to maintain their image as a left wing party while more or less maintaining relatively right wing economic policies leads to the impression by Republicans that they are a far left party which polarizes the electorate even more. The GOP voters then become more willing to excuse the excesses and failings of their own party to fight the take over by LGBT communists which pulls things more to the right.

 

[Cajun]

Trump has 2.5 more years in office. We will see whether his actions were good or bad for the country and perhaps a mixed bag. Meh...

 

[VivaRevolution]

For (at least) ten years now, the Republican Party has had no legitimate political goals. Far removed from the days when some meager attempts at good faith policy making (see: George W. Bush's policies on retirement plans) occasionally interrupted windfalls for the wealthy and powerful, the party has now fully embraced its villainy and relished in the fact that its supporters don't really care. From being an opposition party concerned only with obstructing a country in recovery from their latest robbery, they are now a party in power that is blatantly, shamelessly, and (perhaps to their own shock alone) expeditiously working to enrich themselves, enable corruption, rip off normal American people, and dismantle any semblance of a functional democratic government that represents everyday citizens.

Yet, despite the Republicans' complete lack of good faith policy, their impeccable status as a global pariah and symbol for corruption, and their historically unpopular leadership, the Democrats have failed to even brush past a coherent oppositional message. Too concerned with retaining the appearance of civility and bipartisanship that the Republicans left cold in a ditch years ago, the Democrats have repeatedly floundered when faced with an opponent without such concerns or preoccupations with rightfulness.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/07/democrats-trump-health-care-chantal-mouffe

​

The Republicans learned long ago that, even if you are not fighting for anything that is worth having to your supporters, so long as you are fighting you will win support. This could not have been more apparent than during the 2016 election when, despite the Republican Party and its to-be leader Donald Trump having zero substantive policy or remote interest in it, they were able to bludgeon their wisely pragmatic and endlessly poised liberal foes.

Now, two years later, the Republican Party has shed any lingering pretexts about being a "conservative" party. They will break budgets, they will openly suppress votes, they will openly cannibalize the government toward the interests of their corporate benefactors, they will freely abandon any notion of truth or honesty, they will swindle consumers and workers, and piss on children and the most vulnerable among us.

This is the Republican Party, and they are the enemy. They represent wealth. They represent power. They represent wealth and power in reaction to the democratic will of the people. They are fascists. And you don't reason with fascists or applaud and pamper them when they have fleeting moments of integrity (or feign such moments as is customary for disingenuous cunts like Jeff Flake). You call them fascists, you shine a spotlight on them, and you kick them in the teeth.

It's us versus them. And we aren't friends.

The problem with the left, is that we still need to clean house.

Bernie/Warren should be the face of the Democratic party in the MSM, and that should have been the case since Trump's election.

We saw the excitement for Bernie during the primaries, and the Democratic party refuses to let their most popular politician be the face of the party, because he is a threat to the Democratic parties institutional corruption and power.

The reason Dems aren't dominating a completely corrupt and disfunctional Republican party, is because they too are corrupt and disfunctional.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

This could not have been more apparent than during the 2016 election when, despite the Republican Party and its to-be leader Donald Trump having zero substantive policy...

I liked your rant. Had to pull up here though. Tackling immigration concerns with a wall and easing economic anxiety by renegotiating trade deals isn't policy? Maybe I'm outside the definition here.

 

[DIDM]

If you aren’t a bleeding heart liberal in college you are an animal, if you still are after college, you are an idiot

 

[FinalFight]

The republicans have embraced fascism. You can't play nice with fascists.

 

[VivaRevolution]

@Trotsky

My hope is that the Dems will play good cop/bad cop, in the Dem primaries. Run a left version of Trump like Avenatti, let him take the original surge because people think they like tough shit flingers. Then let him fling so much shit, everyone is tired of it, and realizes they want an adult to be president, and elect Bernie

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I really don't know how to communicate to someone so stupid that they can't wrap their head around this. If there was any actual mention of physical violence - or physical confrontation at all - I might be able to give you some slack. But...there isn't. And what we have is you seeing "kick them in the teeth" and immediately becoming distraught, or as was discussed as being more likely, realizing you could cue in on it and divert from the fact that you couldn't address the actual points of the post.




I vaguely remember you desperately lobbing personal attacks once, or maybe twice, before, but you'll have to refresh my memory. But, yes, I do recall thinking you were a moron conservative. You are doing little to persuade me otherwise right now.



LOL, look at you just throwing all of the talking points at the wall and seeing what sticks: identity politics, But Hillary, and now "highly likely to be a false rape accusation" (lol) into the mix.

Would you care to deconstruct your criticism so we can have a conversation that has a bit more detail and perhaps a touch more punctuation? I would be especially interested to hear how the Democrats are or have been the party of identity politics, which would seem strange considering they verifiably have the more popular economic policy, the wider distribution of positions on social issues, and (last but certainly not least) the GOP openly wrapped themselves in the strategy in the 1990s and have pretty transparently tried to push arbitrary identity issues (see all the posters here constantly talking about transgender persons and feminazis while completely ignoring more pressing issues). And, as far as Hillary goes, I'm certainly no surrogate of the Clinton or her faction of the Democratic Party. However, framing Clinton as a "corrupt vile old crone" relative to the Republican alternative is just fucking hilarious, so if you'd like to delve into her issues on being (i) vile and (ii) corrupt relative to her 2016 opponent, I'd be happy to hear your spot.



Ironically, this is the motto for the Republican Party's ongoing support: "it's your fault that I voted for a corrupt party for which I cannot reasonably advocate because you were mean when you told me I was stupid for supporting a corrupt party for which I could not reasonably advocate!"

Personal responsibility, chief. You don't get to shit the bed and then blame other people for telling you not to do it.



If that - a single sentence metaphor - makes me appear as a tough guy, you're quite easily intimidated.

You're a delusional little snot.

 

[bobgeese]

The problem with the left, is that we still need to clean house.

Bernie/Warren should be the face of the Democratic party in the MSM, and that should have been the case since Trump's election.

We saw the excitement for Bernie during the primaries, and the Democratic party refuses to let their most popular politician be the face of the party, because he is a threat to the Democratic parties institutional corruption and power.

The reason Dems aren't dominating a completely corrupt and disfunctional Republican party, is because they too are corrupt and disfunctional.

“We”???



Last I checked you were a white guy, right?


Yeah, you’re no longer welcome in the democrat party.

 

[Seano]

Liberals are trash. Deal with it.

/ thread.

 

[ChillBroBaggins]

We really deserve better as a nation.

The GOP was content to ride their populist MAGA cheerleader train all the way to its inevitable end, renewed corporate parasitism. Unfortunately for their voters that's exactly they'll get. Their blind devotion will be rewarded with an increasingly contentious economic reality.

On the other side, Democrats' failing belongs to themselves. The moderates grew distasteful of identity politics, while not inherently the Dems' fault, they should have instead hammered strictly policy. Pulling in the moderate vote was crucial, and for the Dems' taking, had they not engaged in the GOP's mudslinging.

Meanwhile the traditional leftists rode Bernie's stand for economic reform and became disillusioned by what appeared to be another establishment candidate in Hilary. I don't personally see Hilary as a bad candidate, just not the right one. Either way, the 2016 primaries showed that a significant group of Americans are chomping for real change, and I think the Dems' need to embrace this for the 2020 election cycle.

In short, one platform is ready to bend to their crony capitalist bidding, with their ever zealous base failing to realize they are being swindled. The other platform dropped the ball.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

That's a key point. What's more, the fact that the Dems wink at certain progressive social policies to maintain their image as a left wing party while more or less maintaining relatively right wing economic policies leads to the impression by Republicans that they are a far left party which polarizes the electorate even more. The GOP voters then become more willing to excuse the excesses and failings of their own party to fight the take over by LGBT communists which pulls things more to the right.

Exactly, democrat supporters will say that's not Democratic policy, it's just the voter base. That's true but they can't dissociate. Just like the GOP gets associated with neonazis, the Dems are now associated with:
Demons:

Muslims, the most hated religious group in the US, the group that the average person remembers for 9/11, Charlie Hebdo, ISIS:

Obama's sons:

 

[HereticBD]

This is the Republican Party, and they are the enemy. They represent wealth. They represent power. They represent wealth and power in reaction to the democratic will of the people. They are fascists. And you don't reason with fascists or applaud and pamper them when they have fleeting moments of integrity (or feign such moments as is customary for disingenuous cunts like Jeff Flake). You call them fascists, you shine a spotlight on them, and you kick them in the teeth.

This is embarrassing.

Get a grip, dork.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Isn't that why conservatives say you guys have guns? Shooting politicians or something?

No, too few political assassinations is not one of my complaints. But joking aside, we've seen some serious violence from the left during Trump's tenure and now a lot of voices are clamoring for that to be ramped up even more.

I think we might see a spurt of assassinations like we did in the late 60s if we don''t amend the political tone.

 

[Letssnuggle]

Trade
Supreme Court Nominations
Border wall (illegal immigration)

Wtf are you talking about!?

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's a key point. What's more, the fact that the Dems wink at certain progressive social policies to maintain their image as a left wing party while more or less maintaining relatively right wing economic policies leads to the impression by Republicans that they are a far left party which polarizes the electorate even more.

In what sense do you think the Democratic Party favors right-wing economic policies?