The Definitive: Top 5 Heavyweights of All-Time.

[ConorFacts]

Semmy would kill Stipe.

 

[markg171]

Chuck was never #1

Lol come on. From 2005-2007 there was a well-acknowledged reasonable split between #1 of Chuck, Wand, and Shogun. Then in 2007 Chuck lost to Rampage, Wand lost to Hendo, Shogun lost to Forrest, and Rampage beat Hendo. The whole debate was done for good with Forrest beating Rampage in 2008. After that there's never been a debate about the UFC's LHW champ being #1 except during DC's reign when Jon wasn't competing.

Not to mention, again as was mentioned, Chuck was at least #1 in his own organization. Cro Cop's peak was winning the 2006 Grand Prix coming off losses to Fedor and Hunt, a tourney of which Fedor didn't even participate in. Fedor was still #1. Cro Cop at best was #2 after winning the Grand Prix before Nog avenged his Grand Prix loss to Barnett only 3 months later that very year. Reasonably with such a victory Nog was again #2.

 

[Mamou]

Lol come on. From 2005-2007 there was a well-acknowledged reasonable split between #1 of Chuck, Wand, and Shogun. Then in 2007 Chuck lost to Rampage, Wand lost to Hendo, Shogun lost to Forrest, and Rampage beat Hendo. The whole debate was done for good with Forrest beating Rampage in 2008. After that there's never been a debate about the UFC's LHW champ being #1 except during DC's reign when Jon wasn't competing.

Not to mention, again as was mentioned, Chuck was at least #1 in his own organization. Cro Cop's peak was winning the 2006 Grand Prix coming off losses to Fedor and Hunt, a tourney of which Fedor didn't even participate in. Fedor was still #1. Cro Cop at best was #2 after winning the Grand Prix before Nog avenged his Grand Prix loss to Barnett only 3 months later that very year. Reasonably with such a victory Nog was again #2.

All I got out of this is that Scott Coker isn't wrong when he says Bader is the #1 HW in the world because he's at least the #1 HW in his own organization.

Terrible arguement on your part. Chuck, like Cro Cop, was never #1. Cro Cop had Fedor ahead of him and Chuck had Wand and Shogun ahead of him. Rampage wasn't even considered the #1 LHW after beating Chuck because Shogun was already #1.

 

[theleerygoose]

But if you go by top 5 opponents Stipe is number 1.

 

[Sturm]

How many top ten dudes did Igor beat? Or was ranking not a thing back then

 

[DayV]

Not to mention, again as was mentioned, Chuck was at least #1 in his own organization. Cro Cop's peak was winning the 2006 Grand Prix coming off losses to Fedor and Hunt, a tourney of which Fedor didn't even participate in. Fedor was still #1. Cro Cop at best was #2 after winning the Grand Prix before Nog avenged his Grand Prix loss to Barnett only 3 months later that very year. Reasonably with such a victory Nog was again #2.

Pride had 2 world titles, Divisional and World Grand Prix, Cro Cop won one of them and the fight between divisional champion and GP champion was supposed to happen. And it has to be taken into consideration when talking about CC's career that he did not get that opportunity due to higher force out of influence when premier organization Pride went under. Also he was supposed to fight Fedor in 2003, not Nogueira. Cro Cop's was no. #2 in 2003 and Nogueira was no. #3 in 2003.
from Nogueira's record:
WIN - Mirko Filipovic - Nov / 9 / 2003 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2003
6 P4P - 2003 - Oct 31 - Sherdog-Fan Vote
2 hw - 2003 - Oct 31 - Sherdog-Fan Vote
3 hw - 2003 - Oct 31 - MMA Media Top 10
2 hw - 2003 - OCT - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
2 hw - 2003 - Oct 12 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/minotauro-has-3-times-more-top-10-wins-than-frank-mir.2708993/

And then came Fedor's claimed injury, Fedor's conflict with Pride leadership & chairmen when he fought in different organisation Inoki . Mirko was also no. # 2 in 2005 on rankings that updated (MMA Weekly) after his Magomedov fight before Fedor fight. So Cro Cop was #2 on several different times and had top GOAT's Fedor and Nog in the same prime with him, had good performances against them and never got opportunity to rematch. That added to his large number of quality wins can be higher than someone who was no. 1 at certain time, but has 15 fights in enitre career and twice less quality wins, who never fought in different rules and settings (boxing ring / cage) and never fought multiple opponents on the same night = lot less tested in various difficult conditions.

 

[DayV]

How many top ten dudes did Igor beat? Or was ranking not a thing back then

IGOR VOVCHANCHYN's ranked wins:

WIN - Yuki Kondo -- Apr/23/2005 - Pride FC - Total Elimination 2005
4 MW - 2005 - Mar 30 - ADCC MMA
9 LHW - 2005 - Mar 8 - mFtng (5.0)
10 LHW - 2005 - FEB - F&B Poll

WIN - Dan Bobish -- Feb/1/2004 - Pride 27 - Inferno
3 SHW - 2004 - Jan 4 - Collective/mRanks/Ufight

WIN - Gilbert Yvel -- May/27/2001 - Pride 14 - Clash of the Titans
10' HW - 2001 - Mar 26^ - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Mark Kerr -- Dec/23/2000 - Pride 12 - Cold Fury
4 HW - 2000 - SEP 5wk - Writers
AUG27:Kerr>Borisov
3' HW - 2000 - Jun 21 - Sherdog-NHB
3 HW - 2000 - Jun 16? - Int Vale Tudo
4 HW - 2000 - Jun 12 - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Enson Inoue -- Aug/27/2000 - Pride 10 - Return of the Warriors
6 HW - 2000 - Jun 21 - Sherdog-NHB
8 HW - 2000 - MAY^ - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
7 HW - 2000 - Apr 2wk - Knuckles-Fans
8 HW - 2000 - Mar 4? - House of Pain-Fans
5 HW - 2000 - Mar 3? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground
6 HW - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)

WIN - Kazushi Sakuraba -- May/1/2000 - Pride FC - Pride Grand Prix 2000: Finals
3 M/LH - 2000 - APR 5wk - Writers
1 M/LH - 2000 - Apr 25 - Sherdog-NHB
2 M/LH - 2000 - Apr 2wk - Knuckles-Fans
3 M/LH - 2000 - Mar 4? - House of Pain-Fans
3 M/LH - 2000 - Mar 3? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground
7 M/LH - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)
2 M/LH - 2000 - Feb 27 - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Gary Goodridge -- May/1/2000 - Pride FC - Pride Grand Prix 2000: Finals
16 HW - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)

WIN - Francisco Bueno -- Nov/21/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 8
7 HW - 1999 - Nov 17? - Int Vale Tudo
9 HW - 1999 - OCT/NOV(2000-JAN) - BlackBeltMag/Quadros

NC - Mark Kerr -- Sep/12/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 7
1 HW - 1999 - SEP - Writers
1 HW - 1999 - AUG?(NOV) - BlackBeltMag-Quadros
5 HW - 1999 - May 4? - Int Vale Tudo
1 HW - 1999 - Apr 20? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground

WIN - Carlos Barreto -- Jul/4/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 6
2 HW - 1999 - May 4? - Int Vale Tudo
6 HW - 1999 - Mar 6 - RingReport-Quadros
9 HW - 1999 - Feb 24 - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
4 HW - 1999 - FEB(2?) - Tatame

WIN - Akira Shoji -- Apr/29/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 5
10 M/LH - 1999 - Mar 6 - RingReport-Quadros
7 M/LH - 1999 - FEB(2?) - Tatame

WIN - Gary Goodridge -- Oct/11/1998 - Pride FC - Pride 4
*ranked after loss*
6 HW - 1998 - Nov 13? - Int Vale Tudo
15 HW - 1998 - Dec 2 - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
9 HW - 1998 - Dec 6? - NHBFightpage-Dempsey

 

[Pakman]

You can imagine a day when cro cop would have beaten JDS ?

uhm, 2004-05 Mirko was a much better striker than JDS.

JDS obv can hit hard and KO anyone, but, Mirko was a much better striker at his peak than JDS has ever been. It's not even remotely close.

But, another shit post from the guy who thinks STIPE FUCKING MIOCIC is the best HW of all time or that Francis Ngannou would beat all of the Pride HW division looool.

Imagine being this stupid.

 

[Pakman]

Pride had 2 world titles, Divisional and World Grand Prix, Cro Cop won one of them and the fight between divisional champion and GP champion was supposed to happen. And it has to be taken into consideration when talking about CC's career that he did not get that opportunity due to higher force out of influence when premier organization Pride went under. Also he was supposed to fight Fedor in 2003, not Nogueira. Cro Cop's was no. #2 in 2003 and Nogueira was no. #3 in 2003.
from Nogueira's record:
WIN - Mirko Filipovic - Nov / 9 / 2003 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2003
6 P4P - 2003 - Oct 31 - Sherdog-Fan Vote
2 hw - 2003 - Oct 31 - Sherdog-Fan Vote
3 hw - 2003 - Oct 31 - MMA Media Top 10
2 hw - 2003 - OCT - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
2 hw - 2003 - Oct 12 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/minotauro-has-3-times-more-top-10-wins-than-frank-mir.2708993/

And then came Fedor's claimed inury, Fedor's conflict with Pride leadership & chairmen when he fought in different organisation Inoki . Mirko was also no. # 2 in 2005 on rankings that updated (MMA Weekly) after his Magomedov fight before Fedor fight. So Cro Cop was #2 on several different times and had top GOAT's Fedor and Nog in the same prime with him, had good performances against them and never got opportunity to rematch. That added to his large number of quality wins can be higher than someone who was no. 1 at certain time, but has 15 fights in enitre career and twice less quality wins, who never fought in different rules and settings (boxing ring / cage) and never fought multiple opponents on the same night = lot less tested in various difficult conditions.

just fwiw, the only reason CC was bumped up to #2 was to hype up that fight.

In all reality, Big Nog was the #2 HW from since March 2003 until the time he lost to Mir

 

[DayV]

just fwiw, the only reason CC was bumped up to #2 was to hype up that fight.

In all reality, Big Nog was the #2 HW from since March 2003 until the time he lost to Mir

Opinions of all that media, journalists who followed MMA scene at that time, of all the fans and experts who voted at those times are authentic reality.
Cro Cop was no. 2 on majority of rankings from that time in fall 2003 & 2006, and that is reality how it was seen by people of that time when it happened.

 

[Final Say]

that Francis Ngannou would beat all of the Pride HW division looool.

Imagine being this stupid.

Never said that, although it’s certainly possible. He’s a bad match up for them all.

Stipe is obviously the GOAT too.

And if it wasn’t even remotely close, cro cop wouldn’t have gotten owned by him even at his age. He wasn’t even competitive

 

[Jabbathehook]

I'd go with;

Stipe
Mir
Werdum
Cain
JDS

Fedora being a Russian, in a very corrupt Pride organisation has me doubting...

 

[ermac88]

Is that why he hides at LHW and fights blown up MWs?

Hes beaten more current HW champs then former MWs

He doesn't have enough HW fights to be in the top 5 all time and LHW fights don't matter in regards to his HW all time position.

If thats purely the criteria I guess

But DCs easily bested some of these guys and dominated tournaments some were clobbered in

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I'd go with;

Stipe
Mir
Werdum
Cain
JDS

Fedora being a Russian, in a very corrupt Pride organisation has me doubting...

Shit list, Mir and Cain are not top 5 HWs all time. Big Nog and Fedor have nearly as many top 10 wins as Cain has wins period.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Hes beaten more current HW champs then former MWs

If thats purely the criteria I guess

But DCs easily bested some of these guys and dominated tournaments some were clobbered in

Why would LHW fights count towards where a fighter ranks all time in a different division? That makes no sense. DC has good wins at HW but not nearly as many as Fedor, Big Nog, Werdum, Stipe and JDS. DC hasn't beaten any of those guys except for Stipe who he's 1-1 with.

 

[Sturm]

IGOR VOVCHANCHYN's ranked wins:

WIN - Yuki Kondo -- Apr/23/2005 - Pride FC - Total Elimination 2005
4 MW - 2005 - Mar 30 - ADCC MMA
9 LHW - 2005 - Mar 8 - mFtng (5.0)
10 LHW - 2005 - FEB - F&B Poll

WIN - Dan Bobish -- Feb/1/2004 - Pride 27 - Inferno
3 SHW - 2004 - Jan 4 - Collective/mRanks/Ufight

WIN - Gilbert Yvel -- May/27/2001 - Pride 14 - Clash of the Titans
10' HW - 2001 - Mar 26^ - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Mark Kerr -- Dec/23/2000 - Pride 12 - Cold Fury
4 HW - 2000 - SEP 5wk - Writers
AUG27:Kerr>Borisov
3' HW - 2000 - Jun 21 - Sherdog-NHB
3 HW - 2000 - Jun 16? - Int Vale Tudo
4 HW - 2000 - Jun 12 - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Enson Inoue -- Aug/27/2000 - Pride 10 - Return of the Warriors
6 HW - 2000 - Jun 21 - Sherdog-NHB
8 HW - 2000 - MAY^ - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
7 HW - 2000 - Apr 2wk - Knuckles-Fans
8 HW - 2000 - Mar 4? - House of Pain-Fans
5 HW - 2000 - Mar 3? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground
6 HW - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)

WIN - Kazushi Sakuraba -- May/1/2000 - Pride FC - Pride Grand Prix 2000: Finals
3 M/LH - 2000 - APR 5wk - Writers
1 M/LH - 2000 - Apr 25 - Sherdog-NHB
2 M/LH - 2000 - Apr 2wk - Knuckles-Fans
3 M/LH - 2000 - Mar 4? - House of Pain-Fans
3 M/LH - 2000 - Mar 3? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground
7 M/LH - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)
2 M/LH - 2000 - Feb 27 - Quadros-FightSport

WIN - Gary Goodridge -- May/1/2000 - Pride FC - Pride Grand Prix 2000: Finals
16 HW - 2000 - Feb 29 - Tatame (vote??)

WIN - Francisco Bueno -- Nov/21/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 8
7 HW - 1999 - Nov 17? - Int Vale Tudo
9 HW - 1999 - OCT/NOV(2000-JAN) - BlackBeltMag/Quadros

NC - Mark Kerr -- Sep/12/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 7
1 HW - 1999 - SEP - Writers
1 HW - 1999 - AUG?(NOV) - BlackBeltMag-Quadros
5 HW - 1999 - May 4? - Int Vale Tudo
1 HW - 1999 - Apr 20? - Fightingtalk - NHB home of the underground

WIN - Carlos Barreto -- Jul/4/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 6
2 HW - 1999 - May 4? - Int Vale Tudo
6 HW - 1999 - Mar 6 - RingReport-Quadros
9 HW - 1999 - Feb 24 - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
4 HW - 1999 - FEB(2?) - Tatame

WIN - Akira Shoji -- Apr/29/1999 - Pride FC - Pride 5
10 M/LH - 1999 - Mar 6 - RingReport-Quadros
7 M/LH - 1999 - FEB(2?) - Tatame

WIN - Gary Goodridge -- Oct/11/1998 - Pride FC - Pride 4
*ranked after loss*
6 HW - 1998 - Nov 13? - Int Vale Tudo
15 HW - 1998 - Dec 2 - Sav's NHB-Chris Savarese
9 HW - 1998 - Dec 6? - NHBFightpage-Dempsey

That's awesome thank you.

 

[acannxr]

Why would LHW fights count towards where a fighter ranks all time in a different division? That makes no sense. DC has good wins at HW but not nearly as many as Fedor, Big Nog, Werdum, Stipe and JDS. DC hasn't beaten any of those guys except for Stipe who he's 1-1 with.

Agreed.

I explained this in the OP only because I knew that some Sherdoggers would bring him up, and it's pretty evident why Cormier didn't make the list.

 

[Conor_Is_Overrated]

Stipe Miocic #1

In the UFC, maybe.

Other than that, see TS's rankings.

 

[Jabbathehook]

Shit list, Mir and Cain are not top 5 HWs all time. Big Nog and Fedor have nearly as many top 10 wins as Cain has wins period.

Fair enough. I just did it based on who I think was the most complete fighter in their prime

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Fair enough. I just did it based on who I think was the most complete fighter in their prime

If that were the case you should have picked Fedor who has submissions from top, bottom finishes via striking on the feet and with GnP. Fedor was by far the most well rounded HW to have fought in MMA.