The class war. Which side are you on?

SBJJ said:
I think most people that think they are poor or lower middle class have smartphones premium cable X-box and all That shit

U will NEVER be rich if u are spending and not saving. And that is not the fault of some rich dudes that don't even know who u are
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That is great advise on a micro level.

It is irrelevant to a macro discussion.

Also, technology is not wealth.
 
VivaRevolution said:
I am middle class. I make what I make, because of my union.

Give my employer another 10-20 years, and they will bust my union, and my job will become just like every other shitty job in this country.
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Unions accept charitable donations from their employees and affiliates. In fact, they are incredible important since RTW laws have made it such that most members are now opting out of full dues to pay for lobbying, etc.

Regardless, if you're making 100k and not giving a significant portion to causes benefiting the poor and upward mobility, your advocacy is (in my opinion, of course) hollow and shallow.
 
Trotsky said:
Unions accept charitable donations from their employees and affiliates. In fact, they are incredible important since RTW laws have made it such that most members are now opting out of full dues to pay for lobbying, etc.

Regardless, if you're making 100k and not giving a significant portion to causes benefiting the poor and upward mobility, your advocacy is (in my opinion, of course) hollow and shallow.
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I donate to my local, max out my political contributions. Do you really doubt I have given a pretty penny to 'our revolution'. I mean I maxed out to bernie, so of course I support a competitor to the DNC in Our Revolution.

Given 200$ to Dylan Ratigan already.

Not exactly a great sacrifice on my part, so I do agree it would be absurd if I didn't put my money where my mouth is.
 
PHATV said:
GTFO. Not rewarding work is a recipe for disaster in a country. Removing incentive removes the great accomplishments of mankind and striving for innovation and success through hard work. Capitalism is the single best method for those of lower class to improve their lot in life over a single generation, moving from poor to wealthy through hard work. I need all my fingers and toes to count the people I know closely and personally who have done just that, some of them from abject poverty. Nearly half of them, in fact. POVERTY. Now I'm 49 so I've been around a while, just telling you this is the single greatest country that has ever existed for improving the lot of the ordinary man through self-determination. Period.
And for the record, I'm not one of them. lol
I'm lower-middle class, despite my best efforts. At least at this point, I'm not done yet.
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You are a reflection of your country. You have a major homelessness problem there. So again, besides looking after yourself, what have you done for your country?
 
VivaRevolution said:
We are a capitalist country. We will always have wealthy people, and poor. I refer to an elite, and not just an economic elite, because without the help of the political, and intellectual elite, the harm the moneyed elite could do, would be limited.
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The fact that we have cooperate philanthropy as a tax cop out leads me to believe America is a nation without care. Eat the rich, if they move we start a movement. We are all Americans, not just the wealthy.
 
SBJJ said:
I think most people that think they are poor or lower middle class have smartphones premium cable X-box and all That shit

U will NEVER be rich if u are spending and not saving. And that is not the fault of some rich dudes that don't even know who u are
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This is demonstrably untrue.

While it may be said that some poor folks allocate too much of their income to nonessential goods, saving is not and has never in American history been the hallmark of the upper class or of upward mobility: spending is. "You gotta spend money to make money" and all. Allocating money into savings, as opposed to say stocks, is a guarantee you'll never be rich.

Also, the rich are the ones driving the neoliberal and austere political machine that has been putting a pillow over the face of the average American for the benefit of the rich. It was the rich who pushed for regressive tax cuts, who fought to kill unions, who fought to privatize the public sector.

Yes, while you may not be able to impute some moral to all "rich dudes that don't even know who you are," you can absolutely blame declining wages, declining mobility, and economic inequality on the rich, categorically.
 
Trotsky said:
Being into Twilight seals your completed transformation into @Devout Pessimist
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OoOoo.gif
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
In the US? No, I don't agree with that at all. The "masses" have never had it so good.
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Really?

So I have lost my 4th amendment rights, and Congress no longer believes in voting for war.

Corporations and foreign government have equal if not more say in what our politicians do, then the voters do.

Inflation has outpaced wage growth for decades, but that is only part of the story, because our inflation rates are fraudulent, as it isn't truly counting spiraling costs in education, health care, and housing.

I mean this is a matter of math. In 1970 earning minimum wage, you could afford to live in a 1 bedroom apartment, and drive a used car.
 
VivaRevolution said:
That is great advise on a micro level.

It is irrelevant to a macro discussion.

Also, technology is not wealth.
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That technology is not free. U are NOT poor if u have a smartphone and pay 200 a month on cable. You are stupid

Of course the worker is under attack. Most corporations care more about shareholders. Unskilled workers are dragging down wages. Automation is just getting started.

But saving and investing at an early age can save ones ass. And having a 600 dollar car payment, 200 for insurance, 100 for phone. 100 for cable. Maybe 40/50 for wifi is what young adults are spending their incomes on. That's a grand a month they could be investing

I don't feel 1 bit sorry for most the so called poor

Of course in a perfect world corporations would treat employees better. Politicians would stop illegal immigration COMPLETELY and maybe stress saving and investing in the newer generations.

Hell, imagine how much easier implementation of universal healthcare would be if we hadn't invited millions of lower skilled people into this country.

I can at least respect u Viva even if I don't agree with u entirely because u at least are consistent at looking at the worker issue by issue.

Both parties screw the worker just in different ways.
 
SBJJ said:
Both parties screw the worker just in different ways.
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In what way do the Democrats screw the worker that the Republicans don't do to a substantially greater degree?

From a perspective focused on labor rights and wages, the Democrats have tremendously acted in favor of workers and the Republicans have acted against them, dating back about 90 years now at least.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Really?

So I have lost my 4th amendment rights, and Congress no longer believes in voting for war.

Corporations and foreign government have equal if not more say in what out politicians do, then the voters do.

Inflation has outpaced wave growth for decades, but that is only part of the story, because our inflation rates are fraudulent, as it isn't truly counting spiraling costs in education, health care, and housing.

I mean this is a matter of math. In 1970 earning minimum wage, you could afford to live in a 1 bedroom apartment, and drive a used car. Your minimum wage job, probably even offered health insurance.
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Lol, what a weird grab bag of political complaints. Even if they were all true, which I don't believe is the case, it would not amount to a war on the masses.

To really see a war on the masses we have to look at places like Venezuela, which Bernie Sanders said made us look like a banana republic in comparison. That guy has jokes.
 
WaylonMercy5150 said:
You are a reflection of your country. You have a major homelessness problem there. So again, besides looking after yourself, what have you done for your country?
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Homelessness is generally addicts and drunks, the mentally ill. We have assistance for those in need all over. Government, churches, food pantries, etc.
I'm not going to get into what I've done (I'm good to my fellow countrymen day-to-day), but you didn't dispute anything I said about the ability for people born into abject poverty here to completely change their own economic status (and even their family tree for generations) via readily available education and hard work. So in that sense, it's the best place in the world to be poor if you choose to improve your lot in life, but you have to do it. It won't just "happen". And shouldn't.
 
SBJJ said:
That technology is not free. U are NOT poor if u have a smartphone and pay 200 a month on cable. You are stupid

Of course the worker is under attack. Most corporations care more about shareholders. Unskilled workers are dragging down wages. Automation is just getting started.

But saving and investing at an early age can save ones ass. And having a 600 dollar car payment, 200 for insurance, 100 for phone. 100 for cable. Maybe 40/50 for wifi is what young adults are spending their incomes on. That's a grand a month they could be investing

I don't feel 1 bit sorry for most the so called poor

Of course in a perfect world corporations would treat employees better. Politicians would stop illegal immigration COMPLETELY and maybe stress saving and investing in the newer generations.

Hell, imagine how much easier implementation of universal healthcare would be if we hadn't invited millions of lower skilled people into this country.

I can at least respect u Viva even if I don't agree with u entirely because u at least are consistent at looking at the worker issue by issue.

Both parties screw the worker just in different ways.
Click to expand...

They are indeed the illusion of choice.
 
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