The #2 middleweight all time

U Fight Cheap said:
haha "lol" my join date is older than you, I'm also "just stating a fact", despite the fact that I don't post much. AS walked off season with more than 230 pounds, how is that smaller than Machida and how his height and reach is smaller than Machida? I can't see how he is smaller "MW" than Machida, the man was a true LHW back in his days, yet he still has hidden himself in the MW division crushing midgets smaller than him and although nowadays there is off course much larger LHWs than him like Jon Jones.
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Where are the facts though, noob?
Silva is a former WW champ who made WW already in his 30s the very same year he won the MW belt.
Silva weighted in at 197lbs for a LHW bout vs Cormier
To say he was a "hidden MW" in front of those facts is retarded as only a textbook shetard can be.

Anderson Silva is a naturally slimmer, narrower man than Machida. This is painfully obvious for anybody who isnt a shertard who thinks we live in 2 dimensions instead of 3 and compare people based on height/ reach. Neil Magny has also inches of height and reach over Machida and even Silva himself yet,,,whatever. Get another hobby.
 
Sweater of AV said:
#1. GOAT. Keep your weight classes.

4937f2x2svx01.gif
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About time someone brough up Saku. Greatest MW that never one the title for sure, and better than most who has...honorable mention...Yuki Kondo, but he fought too long against larger opponents giving him a record that does not demonstrate his skill
 
Aegon Spengler said:
Anderson Silvia’s run had a kind of magic to it that will never be touched. 185lbs champ that popped up to 205 to finish people on occasion, making it look easy.

Who is the clear #2 behind Anderson?

It has to be between Hendo and Izzy…

Hendo never won a belt in the UFC, but did win tournaments, was duel champ in Pride, and KO’d Fedor.

Izzy we already know everything about

Who you got?
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As a MW? Izzy - he's a long standing champ with lots of defenses and he just KO'd his arch nemisis who "has his number".
 
U Fight Cheap said:
haha "lol" my join date is older than you, I'm also "just stating a fact", despite the fact that I don't post much. AS walked off season with more than 230 pounds, how is that smaller than Machida and how his height and reach is smaller than Machida? I can't see how he is smaller "MW" than Machida, the man was a true LHW back in his days, yet he still has hidden himself in the MW division crushing midgets smaller than him and although nowadays there is off course much larger LHWs than him like Jon Jones.
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So Silva was "hiding out" at MW because he was really a LHW?

Wow. I don't even know what to say but @pankrat said it better than I could anyway.
 
mudrubble said:
As a MW? Izzy - he's a long standing champ with lots of defenses and he just KO'd his arch nemisis who "has his number".
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One of the things that makes Anderson’s MW run so incredible was his ability to pop up and down weight classes, and still win with ease.

If someone strings together a series of wins like Andersons run, but doesn’t move up and down weight classes, that person will be regarded as the the lesser of the two men.

JayPettryMMA said:
Anyone who counts Henderson as the #2 all-time middleweight is including his achievements outside of the 185-pound division. You can't do that, that doesn't make sense. He knocked out Fedor as a heavyweight, knocked out Wandy for the Pride title as a light heavyweight, beat Vitor at 205, won the SF title at 205, had his all-time great classics against Shogun also at 205.

As a middleweight, his achievements include: UFC 17 tourney winner (Although he weighed 193, pre-unified Rules), 2005 Pride WW GP winner plus the title he never defended, the Bisping KO, and knockouts of Boetsch and Lombard of note.

Compare that to Izzy, my gosh, it's not even close.
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It’s all speculative…

I say Izzy too and I see your logic but I also think moving around weight classes and winning is understood as a part of a fighters personal legacy in the context of their natural weight, even if it’s not a part of the legacy of that weight class.

Who would you favour in their prime, one Vs one? Hendo or Izzy?
 
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Aegon Spengler said:
...I also think moving around weight classes and winning is understood as a part of a fighters personal legacy in the context of their natural weight, even if it’s not a part of the legacy of that weight class.
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But the thread specified "#2 MW of all time".

Like I said many posts ago, I wouldn't argue with someone who ranked Izzy above Hendo at 185 and Hendo above Izzy at P4P GOAT.

All 3 of us (me, you, JayP) are saying the same thing in different ways: Izzy > Hendo in a 185 only ranking.
 
Aegon Spengler said:
Anderson Silvia’s run had a kind of magic to it that will never be touched. 185lbs champ that popped up to 205 to finish people on occasion, making it look easy.

Who is the clear #2 behind Anderson?

It has to be between Hendo and Izzy…

Hendo never won a belt in the UFC, but did win tournaments, was duel champ in Pride, and KO’d Fedor.

Izzy we already know everything about

Who you got?
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Hendo is not in the running for 2nd at MW he was much better at LHW/HW than he ever was at MW. Most of his best wins are at LHW/HW.

Izzy is the clear number 2.
 
Aegon Spengler said:
One of the things that makes Anderson’s MW run so incredible was his ability to pop up and down weight classes, and still win with ease.

If someone strings together a series of wins like Andersons run, but doesn’t move up and down weight classes, that person will be regarded as the the lesser of the two men.
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Agreed. But that's because Anderson was so dominant at MW. Had he popped up weight classes and never held that 185 title so dominantly I can't see how he could possibly be considered the GOAT.

Aegon Spengler said:
It’s all speculative and opinion based. I say Izzy too and I see your logic but I also think moving around weight classes and winning is understood as a part of a fighters personal legacy in the context of their natural weight, even if it’s not a part of the legacy of that weight class.

Who would you favour in their prime, one Vs one? Hendo or Izzy?
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You didn't ask me but I'd say Izzy if we're talking Hendo's 185 prime vs Izzy's.
 
Aegon Spengler said:
Who would you favour in their prime, one Vs one? Hendo or Izzy?
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Adesanya all day, and I think it'd be ugly too. Six-inch reach, five inches taller, excellent movement and the ability to roll with strikes. He would be able to time and be well out of the way from Henderson's famed inside leg kick to overhand right combo, and he wouldn't succumb to the Decision Dan wrestling that frustrated fans for years. I think he takes Hendo's knees out with low kicks, backs him up against the cage and puts him away within two.
 
SeattleFightFan said:
But the thread specified "#2 MW of all time".

Like I said many posts ago, I wouldn't argue with someone who ranked Izzy above Hendo at 185 and Hendo above Izzy at P4P GOAT.

All 3 of us (me, you, JayP) are saying the same thing in different ways: Izzy > Hendo in a 185 only ranking.
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Fair enough. I wasn’t specific enough in the OP. I’m enjoying seeing people point out that there is a difference between a fighter from MW and a fighter at MW. Peoples understanding of MMA is pleasantly nuanced sometimes, you gotta get it just right

JayPettryMMA said:
Adesanya all day, and I think it'd be ugly too. Six-inch reach, five inches taller, excellent movement and the ability to roll with strikes. He would be able to time and be well out of the way from Henderson's famed inside leg kick to overhand right combo, and he wouldn't succumb to the Decision Dan wrestling that frustrated fans for years. I think he takes Hendo's knees out with low kicks, backs him up against the cage and puts him away within two.
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Izzy has the higher fight IQ between the two of them. He’s more crafty and disciplined than ole H Bomb

Not sure Dan wouldn’t be able to get him down though
 
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Hendo or Franklin

Likely give the nod to Hendo despite Franklin looking sharper in their Ireland fight. Hendo's wins and resume are impressive
 
For longevity, NEVER point-fighting, challenging and accepting challenges from the best of the best, regardless of size and weight, Dan Henderson.

Far beyond the UFC, his Entire Career is what my comment is based on.
 
JayPettryMMA said:
Adesanya all day, and I think it'd be ugly too. Six-inch reach, five inches taller, excellent movement and the ability to roll with strikes. He would be able to time and be well out of the way from Henderson's famed inside leg kick to overhand right combo, and he wouldn't succumb to the Decision Dan wrestling that frustrated fans for years. I think he takes Hendo's knees out with low kicks, backs him up against the cage and puts him away within two.
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This. I think he tears Hendo apart worse than Anderson did.

That being said, due to the end of career losses

Peak: Anderson > Izzy
Overall resume: Izzy > Anderson

Anderson had a lot of losses that weren't bad due to who they were against. But between that tailspin at the end and the PED's, Izzy really should be regarded above him.
 
You have to compare prime vs prime, or only consider people’s who’s careers are over, because you’re holding post-prime losses against retired fighters while guys like Izzy haven’t hit that decline yet.

Case in point people had Woodley as a top 2 WW at his peak after the Till fight, then he loses 6 in a row and has a raccoon bite his dick off in a movie, now nobody even considers him in a top 5 WW GOAT conversation. Izzy might go on a skid like that when Father Time catches him, so it’s unfair to compare him at his peak vs other guys who got old and lost fights they shouldn’t.
 
Quietus said:
You have to compare prime vs prime, or only consider people’s who’s careers are over, because you’re holding post-prime losses against retired fighters while guys like Izzy haven’t hit that decline yet.

Case in point people had Woodley as a top 2 WW at his peak after the Till fight, then he loses 6 in a row and has a raccoon bite his dick off in a movie, now nobody even considers him in a top 5 WW GOAT conversation. Izzy might go on a skid like that when Father Time catches him, so it’s unfair to compare him at his peak vs other guys who got old and lost fights they shouldn’t.
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Yes but Sherdog is unfair

or are you too young to remember the likepocalypse
 
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