That time GSP ducked fighting Whittaker

[krelianx]

I have a BA in Philosophy, of which "logic" is a major component.

Your musings are the exact opposite of logic — and are the very "mental masturbation" I was talking about. Here is how logic works:

1. To become the Champion, a fighter has to beat the Champion in a Championship Title Fight;
   
2. The fight between Michael Bisping and Georges St. Pierre was a Championship Title Fight;
   
3. Georges St. Pierre won that fight

• THEREFORE: Georges St. Pierre became Champion

That's how logic works. No nuances, it's cut and dry.

Again, there's nothing to debate.

You're being obtuse. He's not using logic in the technical sense in which it designates a field of study in the academic discipline of philosophy, or mathematical logic. Nor is he using logic in the sense of breaking down arguments into neatly organized sets of premises and conclusions, or formal symbolization, or analysis of the validity-soundness of arguments.

He's using logic in the vernacular, informal sense in which it designates roughly something like "the pattern of reasoning/justification that one gives for believing that p, including the reasons for p and consequences of p". These patterns of reasoning and justification can operate informally in all ways, by analogy, deduction, induction, etc.

I know it is tempting to lecture everybody on what "logic really is" since the term is used ambiguously and loosely. But it comes across as silly and pretentious.

 

[laleggenda27]

1. Yes, GSP cherry-picked the weakest MW champion in more than a decade.
2. Yes, most people knew he wouldn't fight the legit top MWs. There's a reason Dana put a mandatory-defense clause in his contract.
3. Why are we re-litigating this 6 years later? GSP is one of the GOATs. He had an amazing career. His double-champ status is a little dubious, but who cares?

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

You're being obtuse. He's not using logic in the technical sense in which it designates a field of study in the academic discipline of philosophy, or mathematical logic. Nor is he using logic in the sense of breaking down arguments into neatly organized sets of premises and conclusions, or formal symbolization, or analysis of the validity-soundness of arguments.

He's using logic in the vernacular, informal sense in which it designates roughly something like "the pattern of reasoning/justification that one gives for believing that p, including the reasons for p and consequences of p". These patterns of reasoning and justification can operate informally in all ways, by analogy, deduction, induction, etc.

I know it is tempting to lecture everybody on what "logic really is" since the term is used ambiguously and loosely. But it comes across as silly and pretentious.

There is no such thing as "vernacular logic" ...

You're either being logical, or you're not.

Your argument is either sound, or it's not.

The qualifications for "becoming Champion" are cut-and-dry.
That GSP became Champion, by beating the existing champion, is cut-and-dry.
There is nothing to debate. Nothing.

Mentally masturbating about "other fighters" who might possibly beat "other champions" in similar fashion — is just that: mental masturbation.

Facts = what has happened.
Speculation = what "may have" happened ... or "might happen" ... and isn't anything close to being "logical."

Please sit down and shaddap.

 

[krelianx]

There is no such thing as "vernacular logic" ...

You're either being logical, or you're not.

Your argument is either sound, or it's not.

The qualifications for "becoming Champion" are cut-and-dry.
That GSP was Champion is cut-and-dry.

Mentally masturbating about "other fighters" who might possibly beat "other champions" — is just that: mental masturbation.

Facts = what has happened.
Speculation = what "may have" happened ... and isn't anything close to being "logical."

Please sit down and shaddap.

There is such a thing as the vernacular use of the word "logic", which is not the same as the technical sense of the word, as I explained. This is not to say that there are two kinds of logic.

Also, what "facts" are is hardly uncontroversial. Some take them to be ontological valences modelled in analogy with propositional states. Others, like nominalist monists (Sellars), think they are discursive artifacts, and that nature has no propositional form.

"Speculation" designates an action, not a set of non-actualized possible worlds or states of affairs. What may have happened or has happened is not "logical" or "illogical" anymore than a fact regarding an actual state of affairs is 'logical' or illogical. There are facts about possibilities as well, (e.g. "I could have eaten a hamburger for lunch" is a fact, if the sentence is true) so the distinction is not where you draw it. Speculation is reasoning regarding the possible, and may be logically valid or sound.

For someone who claims to have studied philosophy you sure don't seem particularly bright.

 

[Trabaho]

Nah, he retired. He was done, had nothing left to prove and retired the lineal WW and MW champion for eternity.

GOAT-shit only.

If Bisping makes you a linear MW champ then I'm a lizard. Bisping litary came of a beat down from 46 year old Hendo, which he won by point fighting rounds. He got smashed the first round.

Like GSP said the stock was his so he went for Bisping to become paper champ not linear champ. Both him and Ping weren't top 5 at MW at that time. Ping glitches the matrix.

 

[Mga223]

I mean it was obvious he waited for the right fight.

I mean gsp fans argued with me he would fight Whittaker but it was obvious he wasn't going to.

No shame in it, Whittaker would have killed MW gsp so why should gsp risk it knowing it wasn't a very winnable fight.

 

[Mammothman]

"contractually obligated" to defend the MW champ, everybody knew he cherry picked a one eye washed up journeyman Ping and duck all the killers at MW

 

[tonystpierre]

Everyone knew GSP was coming back to fight Bisping because it was an easy opportunity to get the MW belt and we all knew that he had no plans to defend it.

GSP denied it repeatedly saying he would defend the MW belt if he wins it and saying it was in his contract that he had to defend the belt - blah blah blah.

Then he beats Bisping and shortly after says he has ulcerative colitis so he can’t defend the belt. Whittaker was up next.

Y’all consider that an “official” duck by GSP? I do.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/8/...iddleweight-title-if-he-beats-michael-bisping

He was actually training for a comeback to fight Rockhold before Bisping was champ

 

[ThunderStruck]

wrong.

i guarantee you that lots of fighters from other weightclasses could defeat other champions from different weightclasses. it's simply math. if given the opportunity, that can certainly take place.

look what jon jones just did. he beat gane to become the heavyweight champion. did he fight any contenders? no. could he lose to certain current heavyweight contenders? well, we don't know. why? because he hasn't fought any of them. you have to fight competition before you should be allowed to fight for the belt. why have contenders, if they don't have the chance to fight for the belt?

do you understand my logic, now?

Well then let these other fighters earn their opportunity to fight the champ of another weight class by dominating their current weight classes for like 8 years like GSP did.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Nah, he retired. He was done, had nothing left to prove and retired the lineal WW and MW champion for eternity.

GOAT-shit only.

He ducked. He told Dana and fam he'd defend, he snuck in a opportunistic title shot vs an old one eyed Bisping and then ran rather than fighting Whittaker, Jacare, Romero...fucking obviously.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

There is such a thing as the vernacular use of the word "logic", which is not the same as the technical sense of the word, as I explained. This is not to say that there are two kinds of logic.

Also, what "facts" are is hardly uncontroversial. Some take them to be ontological valences modelled in analogy with propositional states. Others, like nominalist monists (Sellars), think they are discursive artifacts, and that nature has no propositional form.

"Speculation" designates an action, not a set of non-actualized possible worlds or states of affairs. What may have happened or has happened is not "logical" or "illogical" anymore than a fact regarding actual state of affairs is 'logical'. There are facts about possibilities as well, so the distinction is not where you draw it. What may have happened or been the case is simply a set of modal valences. Speculation is reasoning regarding such modals may or may not be logically valid or sound.

For someone who claims to have studied philosophy you sure don't seem particularly bright.

Thanks for the insults, snot-nose.

You keep trying to reinvent the wheel. You keep trying to "sound smart," when you're not.

You're the type who will "mentally masturbate" something quite simple into confusion.

As Nietzsche once said, "Those who know, strive for clarity; those who wish to appear as if they know strive for obscurity."

It's very simple, blowhard.

GSP became the UFC Middleweight Champion.

Any digression to the contrary = mental illness.

 

[chinarice]

He ducked. He told Dana and fam he'd defend, he snuck in a opportunistic title shot vs an old one eyed Bisping and then ran rather than fighting Whittaker, Jacare, Romero...fucking obviously.

One eyed bisping vs no knees GSP. Fight was fair. GSP won. Fucking GOAT shit only bud

 

[krelianx]

Thanks for the insults, snot-nose.

You keep trying to reinvent the wheel. You keep trying to "sound smart," when you're not.

You're the type who will "mentally masturbate" something quite simple into confusion.

As Nietzsche once said, "Those who know, strive for clarity; those who wish to appear as if they know strive for obscurity."

It's very simple, blowhard.

GSP became the UFC Middleweight Champion.

Any digression to the contrary = mental illness.

No, my friend. You're the one who is trying to sound smart. And you are not.

 

[Dan O'Burke]

Nah, he retired. He was done, had nothing left to prove and retired the lineal WW and MW champion for eternity.

GOAT-shit only.

Clear cherry pick and duck. He's been calling out Khabib ever since (a guy he outweighs by like 30lbs) but never fought bigger guys.

 

[HuskySamoan]

One eyed bisping vs no knees GSP. Fight was fair. GSP won. Fucking GOAT shit only bud

I agree GSP is arguably the GOAT. But he clearly wouldn't have went after a title shot if it was vs Luke or Weidman and he clearly had no intention of sticking around to fight a Whittaker or Yoel type guy either. To me beating Bisping isn't "champ shit only" he beat a Lame who wasn't supposed to have the title and then ducked and ran rather than fighting a real top MW. Twist it however you want, see it however you want, that's how I and many see it.

 

[ThunderStruck]

If Bisping makes you a linear MW champ then I'm a lizard. Bisping litary came of a beat down from 46 year old Hendo, which he won by point fighting rounds. He got smashed the first round.

Like GSP said the stock was his so he went for Bisping to become paper champ not linear champ. Both him and Ping weren't top 5 at MW at that time. Ping glitches the matrix.

Bisping was the Lineal Champ so that makes GSP the Lineal Champ. There is no ifs to this. No room for interpretation.

Silva --> Weidman --> Rockhold --> Bisping. Deal with it.

 

[chinarice]

Clear cherry pick and duck. He's been calling out Khabib ever since (a guy he outweighs by like 30lbs) but never fought bigger guys.

I'm not sure what you're talking about but regardless, it's a factually incorrect statement

 

[Dan O'Burke]

I mean it was obvious he waited for the right fight.

I mean gsp fans argued with me he would fight Whittaker but it was obvious he wasn't going to.

No shame in it, Whittaker would have killed MW gsp so why should gsp risk it knowing it wasn't a very winnable fight.

Then what was the point of coming back? To prove you can beat a gatekeeper from your own generation who only has one working eye?

 

[chinarice]

I agree GSP is arguably the GOAT. But he clearly wouldn't have went after a title shot if it was vs Luke or Weidman and he clearly had no intention of sticking around to fight a Whittaker or Yoel type guy either. To me beating Bisping isn't "champ shit only" he beat a Lame who wasn't supposed to have the title and then ducked and ran rather than fighting a real top MW. Twist it however you want, see it however you want, that's how I and many see it.

Yeah he's not the first or last to cherrypick.

Jon did it
Henry did it
GSP did it
Izzy tried to do it
Bisping tried to do it with GSP

People acting like this board wasn't split 55/45 for GSP when the fight was announced

 

[Dan O'Burke]

I'm not sure what you're talking about but regardless, it's a factually incorrect statement

It's actually true. He said he would defend then DID NOT. That's ducking my friend. And he cherrypicked one eyed Bisping (he was afraid to fight Woodley...who really wanted to fight him).