Teddy Atlas: "Taller guys have a disadvantage close range"

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He literally punched their heads of in those slugg fests.
Foreman had a literal granite chin
Not even going to adress the retardedness of this thread since others have done it already but both you morons should search the words "literal" and "literally" in the dictionary.

Pretty sure Frazier's and Lyle's heads were still attached to their bodies after the fights and Foreman's chin is made of flesh and bone and not some inorganic material.
 
All were competent at it.
This is MMA champion Neck Newell:

This is his record:
https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Nick-Newell-59502

Seems very competent in doing things nobody that an a one armed man should not be able to do to a whole career worth of two armed well trained men.


This is 49 year old Bernard hopkin's corpse easily beating up and embarrassing taunting a young world champion and taking his belt:
2-3.gif
BHop_Too_Smooth.0.gif
tumblr_n4fj94mtfL1qaa8d1o1_250.gif


SHOULD BOTH OF THESE BE CONSIDERED THE NORM?
SHOULD PEOPLE NEARING 50 BE THE AVERAGE FOR PRIME?
SHOULD ONE ARMED PEOPLE BE THE CONSIDERED BETTER BY AVERAGE THAN A TWO ARMED FIGHTER?
NO, IT'S AN EXCEPTION


Okay, let's simplify.

Your arms are a certain length. Longer arms are both longer from shoulder to elbow, and elbow to wrist. Taller guys can't change that. You can only bend at the joints.

Imagine your arms as extensions of yourself similar to melee weapons like a baseball bat. You step up to the plate ready for a pitch. You situate yourself so that in your stance, without leaning, you can touch the tip of the bat to the opposite side of the plate. Pretty standard range-check. Except, now, imagine this isn't an open-air environment. There is a concrete wall perpendicular to you cutting halfway through the plate; running in a straight line from mound to the catcher. It's as if you're in a tight tunnel, with your back up against one wall, but a tunnel that is so narrow you can't swing the bat naturally extending your arms without the bat coming into contact with the opposite wall well before you have generated maximum power, and the bat crosses the plate.

You have to choke up to swing through, or the bat's arc is cutoff by the opposite wall. Except you can't choke up any more than you can unhinge your shoulder from its socket (without dislocating it and injuring yourself).

Now, do you want a full-length bat to swing in that tunnel? Or do you think a shorter, fatter, but equally heavy bat would be a better tool to generate power in that environment?

This is a timeless truth. It's why the ancient Japanese crafted short swords intended for the niche of fighting indoors. Outdoors, the longer katana has superior range, and is therefore preferable. Range always wins given space. That's why we evolved archery, artillery, firearms, and ultimately ICBMs. I hit you. You can't hit me. No exchange is more desirable.

But when a short guy has closed the distance, and gotten inside, you don't have that space. You are fighting in a choke point. This is true with straight punches, too. The shorter man is able to fully express the proper punching technique, and achieve maximum velocity on his punches within a short distance. He isn't expected to hit as hard when the taller man is able to express his full range, since the taller man has more distance to create velocity, but even given equal distance in that box, angular momentum doesn't favor the taller man's longer limbs, nor his wider stance/shoulders.

When I say "angular momentum" I'm referring to our bodies, and the nature of our muscular strength. Think about it. Are you concentrically stronger when your knees are fully bent at a 90-degree angle in a squat, halfway bent at a 45-degree angle, or for the final 10 degrees when you stand up? Lifters exhibit different weak points across a complete lift, but generally speaking, we are all much stronger in that final 10 degrees than we are in the first 10 degrees transitioning out of the hole. The same is true for the bench press, and for our punches.

Make sense?
This was so elegantly written down and wasted on that ignorant troll that punches cheap boxing bags on his bed like a charlie Z fan.
 
This is MMA champion Neck Newell:

This is his record:
https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Nick-Newell-59502

Seems very competent in doing things nobody that an a one armed man should not be able to do to a whole career worth of two armed well trained men.


This is 49 year old Bernard hopkin's corpse easily beating up and embarrassing taunting a young world champion and taking his belt:
2-3.gif
BHop_Too_Smooth.0.gif
tumblr_n4fj94mtfL1qaa8d1o1_250.gif


SHOULD BOTH OF THESE BE CONSIDERED THE NORM?
SHOULD PEOPLE NEARING 50 BE THE AVERAGE FOR PRIME?
SHOULD ONE ARMED PEOPLE BE THE CONSIDERED BETTER BY AVERAGE THAN A TWO ARMED FIGHTER?
NO, IT'S AN EXCEPTION



This was so elegantly written down and wasted on that ignorant troll that punches cheap boxing bags on his bed like a charlie Z fan.


So when Holyfield beats up Tyson in close rangen with 197 cm reach vs Tysons 180, it's exceptions too? When does it stop being exceptions???
 
So when Holyfield beats up Tyson in close rangen with 197 cm reach vs Tysons 180, it's exceptions too? When does it stop being exceptions???
You're still doing the exact same mistake. Anecdotes without explanations do not make up a rational counter-argument.
Being taller does give a disadvantage at close range, but that does not refute a potential excellence as an infighter. Any boxing coach will tell you the exact same thing, cause this is a basic.

Look at Gilberto Ramirez, he's huge in height and reach for his previous weight class, yet still made it to defending world champ with infighting as his bread and butter, even though all the commentators kept saying it'd be better if he stayed at reach and outboxed more.

Literally any textbook rule you can find anybody can pull up exceptional examples. Chris Eubank just retired Degale without using the jab. Does that refute the fact it's taught as the most important punch in boxing by every legit coach? Nope. First thing his dad said in a post fight interview is that he was disappointed he didn't use a jab, but still said they were gonna celebrate.

By average the Average tall fighter should use his reach more.
By average the average shorter fighter should use his cut distance more. The reasons for that were explained perfectly and simplified for u by the guy I quoted above. But u said the words were too big or something...
 
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You're still doing the exact same mistake. Anecdotes without explanations do not make up a rational counter-argument.
Being taller does give a disadvantage at close range, but that does not refute a potential excellence as an infighter. Any boxing coach will tell you the exact same thing, cause this is a basic.

Look at Gilberto Ramirez, he's huge in height and reach for his previous weight class, yet still made it to defending world champ with infighting as his bread and butter, even though all the commentators kept saying it'd be better if he stayed at reach and outboxed more.

Literally any textbook rule you can find anybody can pull up exceptional examples. Chris Eubank just retired Degale without using the jab. Does that refute the fact it's taught as the most important punch in boxing by every legit coach? Nope. First thing his dad said in a post fight interview is that he was disappointed he didn't use a jab, but still said they were gonna celebrate.

By average the Average tall fighter should use his reach more.
By average the average shorter fighter should use his cut distance more. The reasons for that were explained perfectly and simplified for u by the guy I quoted above. But u said the words were too big or something...

I don't disagree that it's the shorter guys only way to win, but that's different from saying he is at an advantage. Tyson was a superior puncher in every way to Holyfield, and he still couldn't touch him passed the first seconds of their first fight, as he himself admitted, yet they fought close range
 


This myth again perpetuated..

Tall and Rangie George Foreman was not at a disadvantage against swarmers/close range fighters like Frazier and Ron Lyle. He literally punched their heads of in those slugg fests.. He was NOT at a disadvantage despite his speed deficit. Did just fine, to put it mildly

It is simply not the case, what Atlas is claiming in that clip.

Your average short guy is going to get slaughtered just as much close range as he is long range by the taller guy. If the taller guy is the superior fighter long range, he will MOST likely be the superior fighter close range, and his tallness will be to his advantage in any slugfest.

Imagine one guy throwing clubs at your face, while the other one swings baseball or telephone poles at you. Guess who is favorite in those exchanges, all else equal?

Foreman didn't fight in close. Do ya research. He used to push them back (technically illegal) or prop'em with the uppercut. He destroyed Frazier because he wouldn't let him fight at his best range (head to head), he just pushed him back and hit him with uppercuts. Also foreman was probably one of the strongest men to ever step in the boxing ring. He is not your typical "tall" fighter.
 
Foreman didn't fight in close. Do ya research. He used to push them back (technically illegal) or prop'em with the uppercut. He destroyed Frazier because he wouldn't let him fight at his best range (head to head), he just pushed him back and hit him with uppercuts. Also foreman was probably one of the strongest men to ever step in the boxing ring. He is not your typical "tall" fighter.

Foreman lit him up close range. Hearns destroyed Duran. Holyfield stomped Tyson. Not once did the smaller guy ever win brawls when they were evenly matched.
 
Foreman didn't fight in close. Do ya research. He used to push them back (technically illegal) or prop'em with the uppercut. He destroyed Frazier because he wouldn't let him fight at his best range (head to head), he just pushed him back and hit him with uppercuts. Also foreman was probably one of the strongest men to ever step in the boxing ring. He is not your typical "tall" fighter.

He didn't win by pushing him back, and the mere fact that he threw uppercuts means that they are by definition fighting close range.
 
Foreman lit him up close range. Hearns destroyed Duran. Holyfield stomped Tyson. Not once did the smaller guy ever win brawls when they were evenly matched.
You obviously have no clue. I'm not going to bother if your stupid enough to deny reasonable arguments, when you clearly have no idea. By your shit logic Marciano was a superior boxer to Walcott and Charles. Ironically the fighter that gave Marciano the most problems was one of his only opponents of equal size (Moore).
 
Holyfield was just a better boxer than Tyson.

I don't think he was. Holyfield was by his own admission not that good defensively, and got hit a lot. He would have never been able to take that much punishment in his career without steroids, so considering his style, I consider him a cheater. He does have other aspects that steroids can't gift him, but a huge part of his game is cheating.

That's another thing that rubs me the wrong way with Atlas. He bashes Canelo for his steroid juice, yet didn't say a word about Holyfield, because of his sour grapes with Tyson.
 
I don't disagree that it's the shorter guys only way to win, but that's different from saying he is at an advantage. Tyson was a superior puncher in every way to Holyfield, and he still couldn't touch him passed the first seconds of their first fight, as he himself admitted, yet they fought close range
If you think Tyson couldn't hit Holyfield because Holyfield was slightly taller, you are utterly clueless. Tyson's attacks were very predictable to a good boxer, he just had the speed to get away with it.
 
You obviously have no clue. I'm not going to bother if your stupid enough to deny reasonable arguments, when you clearly have no idea. By your shit logic Marciano was a superior boxer to Walcott and Charles. Ironically the fighter that gave Marciano the most problems was one of his only opponents of equal size (Moore).

I don't care about Rocky Marcianos run in a less than impressive era. He was the exception. The vast majority of elite boxers have far above average reach. And the ones that didn't usually got in trouble against those that did.
 
I don't think he was. Holyfield was by his own admission not that good defensively, and got hit a lot. He would have never been able to take that much punishment in his career without steroids, so considering his style, I consider him a cheater. He does have other aspects that steroids can't gift him, but a huge part of his game is cheating.

That's another thing that rubs me the wrong way with Atlas. He bashes Canelo for his steroid juice, yet didn't say a word about Holyfield, because of his sour grapes with Tyson.
Watch his fight against Dwight braxton. He could definitely box. Yes he was a drug cheat but so was Tyson, how admitted to fighting on cocaine a number of times.
 
If you think Tyson couldn't hit Holyfield because Holyfield was slightly taller, you are utterly clueless. Tyson's attacks were very predictable to a good boxer, he just had the speed to get away with it.

Whether Tyson could hit Holyfield or not is beside the point. Holyfield could hit Tyson. I think a lot of Tyson's boxing was flashy with huge swings, lots of misses, and he sometimes could get stuck if it didn't work. But ... there was really no other way for him to fight with that reach disadvantage. He even said his best punch was the right hand, but he almost never got to unleash it because he was too short. He had to fight the way he did.
 
Watch his fight against Dwight braxton. He could definitely box. Yes he was a drug cheat but so was Tyson, how admitted to fighting on cocaine a number of times.

I can't think of a single performance enhancing element cocaine does to a boxer. Btw, it wouldn't surprise me if Tyson probably took PED's too, post prison.
 
I don't care about Rocky Marcianos run in a less than impressive era. He was the exception. The vast majority of elite boxers have far above average reach. And the ones that didn't usually got in trouble against those that did.
Less than impressive era? You are sounding dumber every time you say something. Also how do you explain Leonard beating hearns using this thesis.
 
I can't think of a single performance enhancing element cocaine does to a boxer. Btw, it wouldn't surprise me if Tyson probably took PED's too, post prison.
You cleary know less about drugs that you do about boxing. Cocaine is both a pain killer and one of the strongest heart stimulants know to man.
 
Less than impressive era? You are sounding dumber every time you say something. Also how do you explain Leonard beating hearns using this thesis.

First of all, I never claimed the shorter guy can't win, second of all, you know full well Hearns outboxed Leonard for most of the duration of their fights.
 


This myth again perpetuated..

Tall and Rangie George Foreman was not at a disadvantage against swarmers/close range fighters like Frazier and Ron Lyle. He literally punched their heads of in those slugg fests.. He was NOT at a disadvantage despite his speed deficit. Did just fine, to put it mildly

It is simply not the case, what Atlas is claiming in that clip.

Your average short guy is going to get slaughtered just as much close range as he is long range by the taller guy. If the taller guy is the superior fighter long range, he will MOST likely be the superior fighter close range, and his tallness will be to his advantage in any slugfest.

Imagine one guy throwing clubs at your face, while the other one swings baseball or telephone poles at you. Guess who is favorite in those exchanges, all else equal?


Once again sherdog coming to the rescue to let us know the pro trainer is wrong. I hope if ESPN, RING MAGAZINE or any pro fighters wants to know the correct ways of fighting just come to sherdog where everyone is always right
 
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