Tamper Tantrum (Mueller Thread v. 17)

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Joe said:
This is something else! These are direct attacks on Clinton personal office
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I know that.

@M3t4tr0n alleged that the Russia didn't start hacking at all until after Trump's statement, which is directly contradicted by the indictment.

@Darkballs alleged that "actual hacks of the DNC servers" didn't start until Trump's statement, which is directly contradicted by the indictment.

@MayhemMonkey posted a tweet from a guy who says Russia didn't start "hacking Clinton" until after Trump's statement, which is weasly on two counts (1) the indictment alleges that Russia had been hacking the DNC and Clinton campaign for months at that point. (2) The indictment provides no evidence that hackers gained access to any e-mails with the @clintonemail.com domain. Usually if A hacks B, A gains access to B's systems. We've seen no evidence of that in this case.
 
Darkballs said:
What trump did do, was praise previous hacks
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That never happened. Find me audio/video of Trump praising the hacks. He has repeatedly denounced them in public.

Darkballs said:
What trump did do, was...called for additional hacks, which then happened.
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In July 2016, Trump called for Russia to find the 33,000 State Department e-mails that Clinton claims she deleted in 2014. If they were deleted, how could Russia hack them?

That day, according to the new indictment, hackers appear to have attempted to spearphish the clintonemail.com domain. The indictment does not allege that the phishing attempt was successful.

Darkballs said:
You want to pretend that trump requesting foreign interference, had nothing to do with the foreign interference that occurred that same day.
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Neither of us know for sure. I'd say it's a decent bet that the Russian hacking unit initiated the phising attempt in response to Trump's statement.

Darkballs said:
I mean, what exactly is your position here?
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My main point is that anti-Trump partisans are willfully combining two distinct and unrelated sets of e-mails to serve their political ends.

Darkballs said:
when trump called on Russia to "release the emails," that he figured they had received them through legitimate means?
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There is no evidence that the Russians ever had or currently have those clintonemail.com e-mails. Trump was loving the gravy train of DNC e-mails that had been coming out and wanted more anti-Clinton material. Have you ever listened to a full Trump rally? Try it sometime. The guy just blurts out whatever he's feeling in the moment.

Darkballs said:
You don't think a candidate for President of the United States should show any concern for foreign entities attempting to interfere in our election process?
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Huh? I never wrote that.

If the 33,000 e-mails were Clinton's personal e-mails (as Clinton claimed), there's nothing unconstitutional here, but it violates a good norm: don't involve foreigners in our politics.
 
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LangfordBarrow said:
.

It's a joke he still has viewers after he got caught not disclosing his ties to Cohen.
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His viewers just want "the good old days" back and are willing to sacrifice basic ethics and integrity for the goal.

Here's my proposal, give them a part of the country where they can revert the fuck out of things...but, they all get to have tuberculosis (they can call it consumption, I don't give a fuck), just to make the good old days genuine.
 
waiguoren said:
I didn't write anything that contradicts that post.

I criticized @M3t4tr0n and @Darkballs for ignoring the best evidence we have and claiming that the DNC was not hacked until Trump made his statement on July 27, 2016.
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Your point is completely irrelevant to the point they are making and that you are subsequently ignoring.
 
PolishHeadlock said:
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What's Wilson's evidence for that?

The majority of Republicans believe (according to polling) that Trump did not collude with Putin to affect the election. That hasn't changed.

EDIT: @HomerThompson posts a quality poll below demonstrating Republicans' views on "interference".
 
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andnowweknow said:
Your point is completely irrelevant to the point they are making and that you are subsequently ignoring.
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I did not ignore the point. I said it's possible that the GRU initiated the new round of phishing on July 27, 2016 in response to Trump's ridiculous statement. I even said it's a decent bet.

But multiple posters (@M3t4tr0n ,@Darkballs ) were spreading misinformation about the hacking and should be corrected for doing so.
 
waiguoren said:
That never happened. Find me audio/video of Trump praising the hacks. He has repeatedly denounced them in public.



In July 2016, Trump called for Russia to find the 33,000 State Department e-mails that Clinton claims she deleted in 2014. If they were deleted, how could Russia hack them?

That day, according to the new indictment, hackers appear to have attempted to spearphish the clintonemail.com domain. The indictment does not allege that the phishing attempt was successful.



Neither of us know for sure. I'd say it's a decent bet that the Russian hacking unit initiated the phising attempt in response to Trump's statement.



My main point is that anti-Trump partisans are willfully combining two distinct and unrelated sets of e-mails to serve their political ends.



There is no evidence that the Russians ever had or currently have those clintonemail.com e-mails. Trump was loving the gravy train of incriminating DNC e-mails that had been coming out and wanted more anti-Clinton material. Have you ever listened to a full Trump rally? Try it sometime. The guy just blurts out whatever he's feeling in the moment.



Huh? I never wrote that.

If the 33,000 e-mails were Clinton's personal e-mails (as Clinton claimed), there's nothing unconstitutional here, but it violates a good norm: don't involve foreigners in our politics.
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Embarrassing
 
waiguoren said:
What's Wilson's evidence for that?

The majority of Republicans believe (according to polling) that Trump did not collude with Putin to affect the election. That hasn't changed.
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Saved for when the official defense becomes "Collusion isn't illegal"
 
waiguoren said:
I did not ignore the point. I said it's possible that the GRU initiated the new round of phishing on July 27, 2016 in response to Trump's ridiculous statement. I even said it's a decent bet.

But multiple posters (@M3t4tr0n ,@Darkballs ) were spreading misinformation about the hacking and should be corrected for doing so.
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Your "correcting" is totally besides the point.
 
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