Talented Fighters are Lazy

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Barbadosdaluta, May 12, 2014.

  1. Barbadosdaluta

    Barbadosdaluta Banned Banned

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    Why is it that the most physically talented fighters are usually mentally weak and have the lowest Cardio?

    Do you think that these fighters rely on their above average physical abilities to destroy the lower opposition their whole early MMA career so they never develop a hard work ethic later on in their career? By hard work ethic I mean the technical skills to defend and attack, and the cardio to keep those technical skills alive throughout the fight.

    For instance, notable fighters for me that are very talented are BJ Penn for starters. First American to win the Brazilian BJJ championships, and got a blackbelt after only four years. The dudes dexterity is second to none, his boxing is better than most fighters today, his takedown defense is magnificent, he has an incredible chin as well, but he gasses due to not being motivated and training the way he should be.

    Erick Silva seems like one of those guys as well as we saw very recently in the Matt Brown fight. Erick was winning against Fitch pretty handily until he gassed, has destroyed everyone in front of him who doesn't have cardio or isn't mentally tough enough to survive the onslaught, he lost the first round to the Dong due to a takedown, but was laying a beat down on the Dong, but then Erick gassed and started throwing wild punches from the hip and got countered, and here again recently he gasses and gets destroyed by a mentally tough, relentless pressure fighter with limitless Cardio in Brown.

    Erick is explosive, quick, incredible bjj, and has very powerful kicks, probably the strongest in the Division, he should be a champ but he never will be, I feel again, guys who win early due to their natural physical gifts will never develop their mind game enough to be championship material. They'll never learn have learned the need to push themselves enough to drill that jab just a bit better, to push for that extra takedown, that extra kick, that one inch that matters in sports to become a divisional champ.

    This is why I believe most wrestlers in MMA have success, the conditioning for a NCAA champ or any wrestler for that matter is very impressive with much hard work needed, in turn they bring in the hard work ethic required for MMA competition and apply it to the striking, clinching, submissions, ect and become very good well rounded mentally tough fighters.

    Nick Diaz is an example of hard work. One could argue he is talented at fighting, and he is, but physically he got the short end of the stick. He's a tall lanky awkward fighter who can't really kick, he doesn't punch hard, he isn't explosive so he doesn't shoot for powerful takedowns or throw bombs, but through his hard work, extreme cardio training, and at least in the cage being mentally tough, he made it to the top (yes he reached the top you don't have to be a champion to be considered part of the top)

    MMA has proven that the saying "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard" is extremely TRUE. And then we have guys like Jones, Anderson Silva in his Prime, Cain Velasquez, GSP, Barao, Aldo. Guys who are talented, AND work hard who dominate and are championship material.

    Just a quick observation. What are fighters that you all think are talented but don't have the work ethic to become champs? And explain why you feel they're talented.
     
  2. fighter_31

    fighter_31 Orange Belt

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    I gotta disagree with you on this on a bit. You don't become that talented without hard work, it just doesn't happen. Best example is BJ Penn when he would have to constantly train one technique over and over again. Also he had a good run in his career where he did solve his cardio problem. With Erick Silva it had to do more with an adrenaline dump in my opinion. Went for the kill didn't get and he burned himself out in the process. Great fighters know how to keep the gas pedal at 3/4 of the way, Silva floored it and burned out. It happens. But great topic, hope this gets some discussion.
     
  3. Barbadosdaluta

    Barbadosdaluta Banned Banned

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    Thank you, that is true as well, perhaps there is some truth to both of our statements, an in between assessment of today's cardio problems.
     
  4. TmacRmac**

    TmacRmac** Orange Belt

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    Chael Sonnen is too lazy to work on his skill and BJ Penn is too lazy to work on his cardio.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  5. fighter_31

    fighter_31 Orange Belt

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    Chael I think has done a decent job trying to up his game. Training with Vinny to improve his BJJ game which I think is brilliant. He is a fighter that struggles when he can't impose his will.
    In regards to BJ, he struggles at 170 and above with cardio. At 155 I thought his cardio was fine. He even had a couple of finishes in the championship rounds, not including Sean Sherk which was at the end of round 3
     
  6. GrindingANARCHY

    GrindingANARCHY Banned Banned

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    Knew this thread was about Penn
     
  7. TheRassler

    TheRassler ---- L E G E N D A R Y --------- p4p GOAT poster

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    you're right, gsp is too lazy to finish guys.

    he didn't used to be this lazy at all.
     
  8. MrDisney

    MrDisney Yellow Belt

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    This statement alone shows you're lacking in the realm of sanity.
    Nick Diaz is the only one that can make Sonnen look less douchey!
     
  9. Kneeuinthenutz

    Kneeuinthenutz Steel Belt

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    Nick Diaz is anything but lazy. He works harder than virtually everyone in MMA.
     
  10. countswagula

    countswagula Gold Belt

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    There's generally an inverse proportion between talent and grit. That said, they aren't self excluding.
     
  11. Shogun Rising

    Shogun Rising I am Shiva god of death

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    BJ and Shogun usually come up in these discussions.

    The thing to remember about some guys is that they were at the pinnacle of the sport years ago, and barely anyone stays at the top of any sport for more than a few years. Guys get paid, lose their hunger, accumulate injuries, grow their families, work on other things, and all this might also hinder a guy from evolving with a sport like MMA where two or three years and the landscape is completely different. It's just how it goes.

    BJ being so talented and coming from a wealthy family overcame a lot in terms of combat sport psychology—in a funny sort of backwards way.
     
  12. Gregolian

    Gregolian .45 ACP Platinum Member

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    Erik Silva in my mind has become this weird Brazilian version of Phil Baroni/Roger Huerta.
     
  13. jeremyemilio

    jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    You have two examples... and of them BJ is the only one that really applies.

    Silva doesn't have bad cardio.

    He spent himself trying to finish early, and then this was compounded by the fact that he has some of the worst striking defense in the UFC, which resulted in him getting his face kicked in for 10 minutes or so... which, now that I mention it, wouldn't have happened if he had such poor cardio because an ass whoopin like that takes hella cardio to keep up with for that long.
     
  14. Shogun Rising

    Shogun Rising I am Shiva god of death

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    Other than being hawt Silva doesn't really remind me Roger Huerta too much.

    If Roger had the explosive striking of Silva, he might've been able to do better.
     
  15. Gregolian

    Gregolian .45 ACP Platinum Member

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    The "tough guy/badass" tattoo thing was more what I was looking at and being a bit of a "pretty boy" type.
     
  16. koquerelle

    koquerelle Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Tell that to A. Silva, GSP, Cain, etc...

    Ridiculous statement.
     
  17. FootstompShonie

    FootstompShonie Silver Belt

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    Talented athletes as a whole are lazy, this isn't anything new.

    It's human nature. Most people who are naturally skilled at anything are often lazy/don't practice their craft because it already comes naturally to them.
     
  18. Talent

    Talent <img src="http://i.imgur.com/NwpFvrR.gif"> Platinum Member

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    ""Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

    -Tim Notke"

    -Tim Tebow
     
  19. TmacRmac**

    TmacRmac** Orange Belt

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    Wait, why did you make this thread?
    Talented fighters aren't as gritty etc....etc.......etc.....
     
  20. devilrojo145

    devilrojo145 TheKaiZenKid

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    You must have never wrestled... or trained in general....

    Chael BUSTS HIS ASS and wins workman like decisions.

    Go become the caliber wrestler/fighter that Chael is and tell me how little hard work it takes....

    BJ is notoriously lazy though, but that comes with natural gifts and the power of affluence....
     

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