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Summery in March (SCO v 31)

Move forward and do...what, exactly?

Impeach?

Even after Mueller couldn't even definitively state that there was obstruction instead of just basically passing the buck to his ex-boss Barr to make the final decision? [<diva2]

Yeah I screw that up one up royally and I think method or metro man whoever it is corrected me
 
Ya you know that 'stuff' that Giuliani and Dershowitz and so many others close to Trump said worried them far more than the Russia stuff did.

Is any of this stuff going to happen while he's president though or are they going to be stopped from doing anything until he leaves office?
 
Mueller swiftly closes up shop
90

It’s a move that could create tensions between DOJ and Democrats as lawmakers seek more information.

By DARREN SAMUELSOHN



The docket sheet hanging outside a federal courtroom on Wednesday morning still listed Robert Mueller’s prosecutors. But they were nowhere to be found at the hearing.

Welcome to the post-Mueller world.

In a matter of days the special counsel has downshifted from investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election to the managerial tasks involved in packing up papers, disbanding staff and handing off cases. Almost everything left to argue in court — like Wednesday’s hearing involving a mysterious foreign company fighting a Mueller subpoena — has been given to career prosecutors in permanent offices.

It’s all happened in a quick burst in the days since Attorney General William Barr on Friday
declared an end to Mueller’s work. He then issued a four-page summary declaring no conspiracy had been found between Trump’s 2016 campaign and Russia, but that Mueller hadn’t come to a conclusion on whether the president obstructed justice.

The memo left lawmakers clamoring for more information about exactly what Mueller did — and didn’t — find during his two-year-long probe. But Mueller and his team won’t be sticking around to answer those questions. While Mueller was in his D.C. office on Wednesday, he’ll be a private citizen again in a matter of days, as will several of his top prosecutors who, like the special counsel, left their well-paying jobs at white shoe law firms nearly two years ago to come work on the Russia investigation.

In their stead, the deputy attorney general’s office “in consultation” with Barr’s team — Mueller’s bosses during his tenure — will handle any remaining responsibilities, including briefing Justice Department colleagues and members of Congress, according to Peter Carr, a special counsel spokesman.

It’s a rapid shift that could create tensions between the department and lawmakers as they seek more information. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer declared on Sunday that Barr, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, was “not in a position to make objective determinations about the report.” And the House Judiciary Committee Chairman, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), emerged frustrated from a Wednesday phone meeting with Barr, proclaiming that he was “very disturbed” that the attorney general would not commit to turning over Mueller’s entire report to Congress. Nadler added that Barr intended to testify before his committee “reasonably soon” and that the panel might want Mueller to appear as the main witness in a public hearing after that.

The House Intelligence Committee chairman, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), even suggested that his committee would try to go around Barr on some issues. His staff had already “initiated discussions with the intelligence community,” Schiff noted, to try to learn about elements not mentioned in Barr’s memo, like the FBI’s counterintelligence probe into whether Trump or anyone on his team was compromised by Russia.

Still, it’s too soon to say whether Mueller’s hand-off of all duties — including congressional briefings — should be cause for concern, said Randall Samborn, a former senior Justice Department aide and spokesman for the George W. Bush-era special counsel investigation into who leaked the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame.

“I think we have to wait to see if DOJ officials going forward are able to preserve its long tradition of placing the apolitical integrity of law enforcement above politics,” Samborn said.

“Ultimately,” he added, “there is always concern about the erosion of respect for and confidence in the rule of law, but that seems imperiled on many fronts, including … whether senior DOJ officials are able to adequately take the reins from a departed special counsel.”

Mueller’s files will be kept in accordance with the Justice Department’s record retention rules, Carr said, though he declined to elaborate further about what those requirements entail.

The shuttering of Mueller’s team comes as the key lawmakers get their first briefings from Barr about the special counsel’s efforts. Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told reporters after a Tuesday night meeting with Barr that the attorney general planned to release “everything that doesn’t compromise national security or violate the law.” Nadler had a different interpretation after his chat with the attorney general.

“He wouldn’t commit to” giving Congress Mueller’s entire report, Nadler told reporters in the Capitol.

Meanwhile, some remaining Mueller-related activity will continue unabated.

Although the special counsel’s prosecutors weren’t in the courtroom on Wednesday — where a judge heard arguments over a media-led push to unseal the name of the foreign state-owned firm fighting Mueller — one of the Justice Department prosecutors taking over the case confirmed that the grand jury Mueller used to investigate the 2016 election was “continuing robustly.” The revelation indicated that significant developments could still occur in the Mueller-affiliated cases not yet fully settled, legal experts said.

And Rudy Giuliani isn’t severing himself from representing Trump just yet. The former New York mayor, who has been working for Trump on a pro bono basis since last April, told POLITICO he planned to be the president’s personal lawyer “for a while.”

But he’ll be dealing with a whole new slate of lawyers for any lingering Mueller-related work.

On Monday, a day after Barr released his summary report of the special counsel’s work, seven special counsel prosecutors handed off their case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, his deputy Rick Gates and their longtime associate in the Ukraine, Konstantin Kilimnik.

At least four assistant U.S. attorneys from the D.C. office will deal with any residual issues involving the case, which has resulted in Manafort serving a 7.5-year prison sentence for a series of financial fraud, obstruction and conspiracy charges. Gates is cooperating with authorities in exchange for a recommendation of a more lenient penalty, while Kilimnik has been charged with witness tampering but remains out of reach of U.S. prosecution while living in Moscow.

Federal prosecutors in D.C. are also expected to take over Mueller’s cases against both Roger Stone and Concord Management and Consulting, the Russian-based company led by a close associate of President Vladimir Putin that has hired American lawyers to fight back on charges it helped orchestrate the massive online campaign to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

The change in command is fresh enough that the special counsel’s lawyers remain listed on the docket in both cases.

“That does seem very swift,” said John Q. Barrett, a former associate counsel who worked under independent counsel Lawrence Walsh during the Reagan-era investigation into secret U.S. arms sales to Iran.

Still, he noted that the workload involved in closing up Mueller’s shop shouldn’t be all that challenging when considering that the special counsel has always been an internal office inside the Justice Department. “So it’s more like the question of how fast an assistant U.S. attorney team closes an investigation and moves on to new work or new [non-prosecutorial] jobs,” Barrett said.

Mueller’s lawyers aren’t totally done elsewhere, either. Michael Dreeben, the deputy solicitor general and one of the most experienced lawyers on the special counsel’s team, filed a motion Wednesday opposing The Washington Post’s request for a two-week extension to address a lawsuit seeking the release of filings and transcripts in the Manafort case.

But in other venues, former Mueller members are starting to surface. David Archey, who through early March served as the lead senior FBI agent on detail to the special counsel, helped roll out the announcement Wednesday that James Fields, the neo-Nazi sympathizer who struck and killed a woman during a white nationalist rally in Virginia in 2017, had pleaded guilty to 29 federal hate crimes.

Back in the D.C. courthouse on Wednesday, Theodore Boutrous, the lead attorney for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, the open-government group fighting to unseal the name of the mystery company that for months has defied a Mueller subpoena, mused about what the prompt shuttering of the special counsel’s office might mean for those hoping to learn more about the intensely scrutinized probe.

“It makes our argument stronger for maximum disclosure,” he said.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/28/robert-mueller-justice-department-1241100



And Rudy Giuliani isn’t severing himself from representing Trump just yet. The former New York mayor, who has been working for Trump on a pro bono basis since last April, told POLITICO he planned to be the president’s personal lawyer “for a while.”

>>> Poor Trump. Having this nitwit continue to represent him. <Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>
 
And yet

Mueller grand jury 'continuing robustly,' prosecutor says


The revelation — while laced with uncertainty — indicates that the ongoing cases Mueller handed off could still feature significant developments.

By DARREN SAMUELSOHN

03/27/2019

The special counsel grand jury that investigated Russian collusion into the 2016 presidential election is “continuing robustly” despite the end of Robert Mueller’s probe, a federal prosecutor said in court Wednesday.

The revelation — while laced with uncertainty — indicates that the ongoing cases Mueller handed off after concluding his probe could still feature significant developments, legal experts said.


David Goodhand, an assistant U.S. attorney, acknowledged the grand jury’s active status during a hearing in U.S. District Court over a push to unveil the identity of a foreign state-owned firm that has been held in contempt for defying a Mueller subpoena.

The mystery company’s case was denied a hearing before the Supreme Court earlier this week, and in the meantime, the open government group Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press has sought access to all materials in the clandestine litigation, including the company’s identity.

During a brief open hearing Wednesday, the chief judge of the U.S. District Court for D.C., Beryl Howell, pressed Goodhand to say whether the grand jury Mueller had been using in the case remained active.

“It is continuing,” the prosecutor replied. “It’s continuing robustly.”

The fact the grand jury is continuing its work adds a new wrinkle to the Mueller probe, which Attorney General William Barr announced on Friday was finished.

Barr released a four-page summary saying the special counsel had not found a conspiracy between Trump’s campaign and Russia to sway the 2016presidential election. Barr also noted that Mueller had not reached a conclusion on whether the president had obstructed justice. The attorney general then made a separate judgment that the obstruction evidence did not prove a crime.

Additionally, the attorney general said Mueller had no more indictments — either to be released or under seal — in the case.

Mueller’s office in recent days has been handing off a series of its cases to federal prosecutors across the government as it closes up shop. That includes the mystery subpoena fight that’s been ongoing since last year.

During a brief open hearing Wednesday, the chief judge of the U.S. District Court for D.C., Beryl Howell, pressed Goodhand to say whether the grand jury Mueller had been using in the case remained active.

“It is continuing,” the prosecutor replied. “It’s continuing robustly.”

The fact the grand jury is continuing its work adds a new wrinkle to the Mueller probe, which Attorney General William Barr announced on Friday was finished.

Barr released a four-page summary saying the special counsel had not found a conspiracy between Trump’s campaign and Russia to sway the 2016presidential election. Barr also noted that Mueller had not reached a conclusion on whether the president had obstructed justice. The attorney general then made a separate judgment that the obstruction evidence did not prove a crime.

Additionally, the attorney general said Mueller had no more indictments — either to be released or under seal — in the case.

Mueller’s office in recent days has been handing off a series of its cases to federal prosecutors across the government as it closes up shop. That includes the mystery subpoena fight that’s been ongoing since last year.

Others said the grand jury’s continued presence could pose an ongoing headache for President Donald Trump, who since Sunday has misleadingly hyped Barr’s letter about the end of the Mueller probe as a complete exoneration.

"I worked with the prosecutor [Goodhand] in this matter,” said Gene Rossi, a former assistant U.S. attorney in Virginia. “He uses his words very carefully. The use of 'robustly' is not bluster or gratuitous. That word strongly suggests that the handoffs from Robert Mueller's office are alive and kicking and that the Washington U.S. Attorney's Office could be another troubling front for the president and the White House."

As she weighed the request to lift the curtain on the company’s identity Wednesday, Howell made it a point to ascertain whether the grand jury that’s been meeting since mid-2017 still has work to do.

“Transparency … when it comes to the judicial process is very important,” she said. “There should be no secret law.”

The mystery firm’s lawyers have argued the company should not be subject to a subpoena because it’s entirely foreign government-owned and complying with the subpoena would break the foreign country’s laws.

On Monday, the Supreme Court turned down the firm's appeal, leaving a pair of lower court decisions in place. The company is also currently subject to a $50,000-a-day legal fine as long as it refuses to turn over requested information. So far, it has racked up more than $2 million in penalties.

In court Wednesday, Goodhand said the government still opposes the release of the foreign company’s name.

So did Brian Boone, a partner at Alston & Bird who is representing the firm. “My client would prefer to not have his identity be disclosed to the public,” Boone said.

Howell asked Boone to explain why there’s still a need for secrecy.

“I’d prefer not to in a public a hearing," Boone replied.

The company’s lawyers then left from the courtroom before the hearing ended, skipping the arguments from the Reporters Committee and the federal government.

TLDR The mystery company stated they didn't want to turn over important documents in order to not violate the law in their country or some shit like that, right?
 
Oh no, not the “tax stuff” and “buisiness stuff”!!!

<Ellaria01>

I just hope this isn’t as serious as the “Russian stuff”.

<Baelish01>


Reminder, nobody gives a shit what happens to trump when he leaves office (except butthurt liberals of course). Lock up his whole family if they broke the law. We’ll have all moved on to enjoying living under Presidenttess Haley.

I've gone out on a limb, Bob, and stated neither Trump nor his family see any jail-time. But their collective wallets and bank accounts would take a massive hit, though.
 
Actually you should not speak so soon.

Mueller is, as every one says, very much a by the book guy. In both prior special investigator cases they saw their jobs as to gather facts only and since the policy of the DOJ is not indict a sitting POTUS and thus no bring no criminal charges they instead packaged up all the facts they gathered and gave them to Congress to consider for the political side. Impeachment.

And you know what happened in both those cases where no charges were brought. Impeachment was being pursued in both. 2 for two. Nixon avoided it by resigning. Clinton did not.

So we will see when the report is released but it looks like Mueller reserved judgement, leaving that to the politico's, and Barr then decided to jump in and give his opinion contrary to prior precedent.


You mean his friend of 30 years Barr?


It’s actually fucking astonishing any of you thought that these two wouldn’t be working hand in hand.

Democrats, the party soooooooo butthurt, they place their last ounce of hope in a lifelong republican, it hopes it would take out the bad, bad orange man.


<TheDonald>
 
Actually you should not speak so soon.

Mueller is, as every one says, very much a by the book guy. In both prior special investigator cases they saw their jobs as to gather facts only and since the policy of the DOJ is not indict a sitting POTUS and thus no bring no criminal charges they instead packaged up all the facts they gathered and gave them to Congress to consider for the political side. Impeachment.

And you know what happened in both those cases where no charges were brought. Impeachment was being pursued in both. 2 for two. Nixon avoided it by resigning. Clinton did not.

So we will see when the report is released but it looks like Mueller reserved judgement, leaving that to the politico's, and Barr then decided to jump in and give his opinion contrary to prior precedent.

Well Mike, I don't think it will end up being anything that ends up either helping nor hurting Trump anyway, regardless of what they find.

With a Republican Senate Majority, there's no chance of Trump's removal anyway.

Right now, the Democrats want to see the report to look for ANYTHING they can use as fodder against Trump in the upcoming 2020 elections.

It's now Political warfare and no longer about conspiracies with Russia.
 
I've gone out on a limb, Bob, and stated neither Trump nor his family see any jail-time. But their collective wallets and bank accounts would take a massive hit, though.


I couldn’t care less. If they fail to remove him from office, they lose.

Execute him on the way out the door for all I care...


<{hughesimpress}>
 
I couldn’t care less. If they fail to remove him from office, they lose.

Execute him on the way out the door for all I care...


<{hughesimpress}>

You are one cold-blooded person.


I like it. <{ohyeah}>
 
Is any of this stuff going to happen while he's president though or are they going to be stopped from doing anything until he leaves office?

Depends.

The various Trump investigations are being done by:

- The US Attorney Office D.C
- The SDNY
- The USA Manhattan & Brooklyn
- New York Department of Financial Services
- The New York state tax department
- New Jersey attorney general’s office
- the attorneys general of Maryland and Washington D.C
- House Intelligence Committee
- House Judiciary Committee
- The House Oversight Committee
- House Financial Services Committee
- The House Ways and Means committee
- House Foreign Affairs Committee

cite

Being that some of those fall under the DOJ and the DOJ operates under a policy generally of no indictment of a sitting POTUS, I would expect those offices to investigate but not file charges.

the other groups are all free to pursue things without any such limitation if they find anything that warrants it.
 
TLDR The mystery company stated they didn't want to turn over important documents in order to not violate the law in their country or some shit like that, right?
Incorrect. They do not want to turn over doc's or cooperate period. They are trying to hide between saying its their countries law. It has not held up and the courts have required their cooperation. They tried to appeal to the supreme court and were rebuffed. They hoped the end of the Mueller investigation and the expected end of the 'russia stuff' to end this angle and went to court to ask for its dismissal and were shocked (as was everyone in court) when the AUSA was there saying no there was still a robust investigation going on, on this issue and they need everything upheld.
 
You mean his friend of 30 years Barr?


It’s actually fucking astonishing any of you thought that these two wouldn’t be working hand in hand.

Democrats, the party soooooooo butthurt, they place their last ounce of hope in a lifelong republican, it hopes it would take out the bad, bad orange man.


<TheDonald>
Yes Barr the guy who wrote the audition love note to Trump prior saying 'hire me, I got your back' in the best tradition of one upping Matt Whitaker.
 
Well Mike, I don't think it will end up being anything that ends up either helping nor hurting Trump anyway, regardless of what they find.

With a Republican Senate Majority, there's no chance of Trump's removal anyway.

Right now, the Democrats want to see the report to look for ANYTHING they can use as fodder against Trump in the upcoming 2020 elections.

It's now Political warfare and no longer about conspiracies with Russia.
I've never saw Impeachment being completed as a real possibility.

i absolutely think if Trump walked out and shot someone the Republican Senate would say 'what are the polls saying' before considering impeachment. No hyperbole there. The party is morally bankrupt.

It would go towards a criminal prosecution either while he is in or out of office. Likely out.

but I am mostly with you. I think if he faced that jeopardy (or more likely his kids would) he would volunteer to step down to make things go away and they would likely take the deal.
 
I've never saw Impeachment being completed as a real possibility.

i absolutely think if Trump walked out and shot someone the Republican Senate would say 'what are the polls saying' before considering impeachment. No hyperbole there. The party is morally bankrupt.

It would go towards a criminal prosecution either while he is in or out of office. Likely out.

but I am mostly with you. I think if he faced that jeopardy (or more likely his kids would) he would volunteer to step down to make things go away and they would likely take the deal.


Considering what happened with Smollette, do you have any confidence that Trump sees Jail-time or that his family does?

If I were a dem and out for Trump's blood, even I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Worst case scenario is he gets fined up the ass.
 
Considering what happened with Smollette, do you have any confidence that Trump sees Jail-time or that his family does?

If I were a dem and out for Trump's blood, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
No. that is why I said I do not think he will.

i think its likely they go after the Directors of his Corporation and Charity and University for Fraud and other crimes it looks pretty certain that happened. They threaten to go after the kids criminally and rather than risk that Trump steps down.
 
lol. So is that you admitting you are sitting around at the edge of your seat in the hope and expectation that Schiff might step down because... you just are not sure.

LMFAO at the delusion you hold.

Protip. No one but you, in this entire thread is in doubt about that.

"I doubt he steps down"

Not...

"I doubt he doesn't step down."


Learn to read, little Mikey.
 
"I doubt he steps down"

Not...

"I doubt he doesn't step down."


Learn to read, little Mikey.
ya i read it fine. The fact of the matter is you are still in doubt whether he will step down or not. The doubt applies either way. You are unsure and sitting around hopeful.

let me help you. Remove the doubt. He is not stepping down.
 
ya i read it fine.

Nah, I don't think ya did. Given that you questioned my stance over someone LOL-ing me doubting he steps down. The LOL didn't even make sense.

let me help you. Remove the doubt. He is not stepping down.

Like I've been saying, I doubt it. Anything is possible, though. Personally, I truly hope he stays because he's such a fucking buffoon/weirdo, and is an unintentional ally to the Republicans.
 
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