Sufficient power clean strength

[PWR1982]

What is insane about that? 300lbs is pretty average on the power clean IMO. I watch tons of kids do it on a daily basis, and not all of them are great athletes, some honestly arent even all that strong.

The strength level needed to do a 250-300lb bench press, 300-350lb clean, and squat and deadlift in the low 400's is very easy to get to by the vast majority of people... and for most doesnt take that long either. So I dont understand what's "Insane" about it.

I cooked fajitas last night for a kid that cleaned 400lbs and front squatted 600lbs at 16 years of age. We then rented and watched reservour dogs, lol. Thats insane. A 300lb clean before you graduate high school is not.

Well 300 power clean is "average" for athletes that clean a lot I guess and get trained by you. My point is that at 15 years and after 6 months of training, I find it very impressive.

 

[James Fuller]

Key word right there.

Who cares if you're considered strong? The people at my gym think I'm ridiculously strong. Yet, at just about any sort of strength sport competition, I doubt I would be "considered" strong at all. What other people think is meaningless. It depends more on context than strength itself.

If you care about strength, you need to worry about getting stronger, putting that next 5lb on the bar, not achieving some concocted "standard" of strength.

This is so true plus people are forgetting that this is not a powerlifting forum, this is a forum for sc as it relates to mma, grappling and general combat fitness so the "standard" is off. Its not about pure numbers its about increased performance. I hear u bout context I could be the weakest guy here but if I am always the strnger guy in the cage I ain't changing anything! Your relative strength for your size is the number one most important standard as it relates to combat athletesbecause we need to make weight. Sure I could lift like guys looking for respect in the weight room and eat a shit ton, pound the protein shakes and promptly lift myself out of the 145 class but I look for my respect in the fight instead so I will take my 2.5 xbodyweight power clean (walking weight btw not fight weight)

 

[Gary Peters]

Performance standards are stupid and IMO unless you are a competitive lifter, bodyweight is irrelevant.

Very few sports actually pit you against people your own size every time.. if you're a football or hockey player and you're 170 pounds and deadlift 3x your bodyweight it doesn't mean shit when you are playing against someone that is 220 pounds and only deadlifts 2.5x their bodyweight.

Life isnt a videogame where you can just pit "stats" against eachother and the higher of the two win. I'm pretty sure this forum is primarily based on MMA so why did football and hockey come up? I know guys who are 150 lbs that throw around guys who are 240 and cant lift anywhere near what they do.

 

[turbozed]

Life isnt a videogame where you can just pit "stats" against eachother and the higher of the two win. I'm pretty sure this forum is primarily based on MMA so why did football and hockey come up? I know guys who are 150 lbs that throw around guys who are 240 and cant lift anywhere near what they do.

That would be a matter of technique, and not strength.

Strength is a measure of putting force against an object, and the barbell lifts are a good measure of your maximum strength outputs. Being able to direct that strength into some movement useful to sports is a matter of technique. If you haven't noticed by now, this is the strength and conditioning forum and not the throwing technique forum, so perhaps your complaint isn't as valid as you initially supposed.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Ill take a stab at "adequate" power clean strength. A 300lb clean is fairly common in high school athletes that I train, 400lbs happens here and there in high school kids but isnt all that common. Right now there are only 3 high school students at the gym that clean over 400lbs. There are probably 20 or 30 that clean over 300lbs, including a few sophomores.

At 238 lbs., I thought my 245-lb. power clean was the bees knees. Ouch, my pride.

 

[Dafreeclinic]

Life isnt a videogame where you can just pit "stats" against eachother and the higher of the two win. I'm pretty sure this forum is primarily based on MMA so why did football and hockey come up? I know guys who are 150 lbs that throw around guys who are 240 and cant lift anywhere near what they do.

S+C isnt and yeah the 150s throw around the 240s just the 240s throw the 150s farther.

 

[Gary Peters]

That would be a matter of technique, and not strength.

Strength is a measure of putting force against an object, and the barbell lifts are a good measure of your maximum strength outputs. Being able to direct that strength into some movement useful to sports is a matter of technique. If you haven't noticed by now, this is the strength and conditioning forum and not the throwing technique forum, so perhaps your complaint isn't as valid as you initially supposed.

I don't need a lecture on strength from someone deadlifting 375. I know what strength is, you didnt even look to see why I responded the way I did. You just saw it as an opportunity to look smart and rambled.

S+C isnt and yeah the 150s throw around the 240s just the 240s throw the 150s farther.

This is a strength and conditioning section of a forum dedicated to MMA. So it would be easy to imagine this section is to improve strength and conditioning for MMA. You can go join a baseball forum and talk about football but it doesnt change the intention of the forum.

 

[turbozed]

I don't need a lecture on strength from someone deadlifting 375. I know what strength is, you didnt even look to see why I responded the way I did. You just saw it as an opportunity to look smart and rambled.



This is a strength and conditioning section of a forum dedicated to MMA. So it would be easy to imagine this section is to improve strength and conditioning for MMA. You can go join a baseball forum and talk about football but it doesnt change the intention of the forum.

"I'm Gary Peters. When I'm corrected by someone with a better grasp of reason than me, I go and look up how much they deadlift."

You know who I don't want to get lectured by? Idiots. That means you. You can deadlift more than me but when adults are having a discussion maybe you should keep your mouth shut.

 

[Tosa]

This is a strength and conditioning section of a forum dedicated to MMA. So it would be easy to imagine this section is to improve strength and conditioning for MMA. You can go join a baseball forum and talk about football but it doesnt change the intention of the forum.

This doesn't mean that S&C is necessarily, or even usually, discussed in the context of MMA or any particular martial art. Just like there are several other sub-forums that don't necessarily have anything to do with MMA. Additionally, many of the posters here are people who enjoy watching MMA, but don't actively particpate in it or any martial art, or just post here because they like to talk about strength and/or conditioning in general.

 

[Dafreeclinic]

Turbozed you seem to have a debate team/philosophy class background.

Tosa pretty much said it just cause were on a mma forum doesn't mean that's our primary focus. The weapons forum definitely isn't mma specific and neither are we.

 

[turbozed]

Turbozed you seem to have a debate team/philosophy class background.

Tosa pretty much said it just cause were on a mma forum doesn't mean that's our primary focus. The weapons forum definitely isn't mma specific and neither are we.

I'm a lawyer, which perfectly explains why I'm ornery and generally unlikeable during discussions.

But you were close: I was a rhetoric major at Cal. The internet is the only place where I can still be combative and argumentative on principle. I've long learned that it's better to be agreeable and seductive if you actually want to change anyone's mind.

 

[Dafreeclinic]

I'm a lawyer, which perfectly explains why I'm ornery and generally unlikeable during discussions.

But you were close: I was a rhetoric major at Cal. The internet is the only place where I can still be combative and argumentative on principle. I've long learned that it's better to be agreeable and seductive if you actually want to change anyone's mind.

Makes sense, I have to agreee with you almost all my arguments with people end up with them saying Im mean for disagreeing once I provided evidence there point is wrong.

 

[glennpendlay]

I dont know why asking for some sort of "standard" on an exercise is so controversial. Even in an MMA forum, for a guy training for MMA it still helps a little to have a goal, to know where you stand in relation to the world at large. Everyone knows what the "standards" are for a lift like the bench press, cause everyone does it, guys see other people at the gym doing it, people talk about it, etc. Everyone knows that 300lbs is pretty strong, your a stud if you can do 400lbs, and if you go over 500lbs without gear thats really at the elite levels.

Most people dont have that same feel for power clean numbers, because its not as common of an exercise. Hence the question.

 

[MASShole]

A 300lb clean is strong.

 

[glennpendlay]

A 300lb clean is strong.

you are right. and you have a cool avatar.

 

[MASShole]

Why thank you, Master Pendlay.

I've only seen a few people clean over 300. One dude was nearly olympic level for the oly lifts, doin 400+. I think my best ever was 242.

 

[Tosa]

I dont know why asking for some sort of "standard" on an exercise is so controversial. Even in an MMA forum, for a guy training for MMA it still helps a little to have a goal, to know where you stand in relation to the world at large. Everyone knows what the "standards" are for a lift like the bench press, cause everyone does it, guys see other people at the gym doing it, people talk about it, etc. Everyone knows that 300lbs is pretty strong, your a stud if you can do 400lbs, and if you go over 500lbs without gear thats really at the elite levels.

Most people dont have that same feel for power clean numbers, because its not as common of an exercise. Hence the question.

I thinks it's an issue of validity and relevance. For example, is there a reliable source for what's a reasonable strength standard for a 170lbs kick boxer (or whatever the sport may be). Not entirely, there might be some numbers thrown about by coaches, or athletes. And these standards may or may not be entirely applicable to the individual. For someone who's a strength athlete, there's very clear standards for what's lifted at various levels of competition.

So particular standards don't seem especially important to me. They may help in setting goals, or benchmarks, although they don't seem necessary for this. Maybe there most valid use is to compare lifts relative to eachother (assuming the chart is made with valid information), like if it shows that my deadlift is far better than my squat, well I need to spend more time squatting.

But perhaps the real reason I (we?) don't like these threads, is they seem like "Am I strong?" questions in disguise.

 

[glennpendlay]

In high school, my sport was wrestling. If you would have asked me why I lifted weights, I would have said "to get stronger for wrestling".

But, I sure did also want to bench press more than my friends. And I am sure that wanting to out bench press Barry Park and Lance Thompson, two of my "rivals", made me work just a little harder when bench pressing than if I had no other motivation than just some fuzzy vision of being stronger when wrestling season started 3 months in the future.

And working extra hard to make sure that neither of them beat me to 300lbs made me stronger for wrestling. Which was the goal all along.

Along the same lines, when I train high school or college football players, I like them to do a couple of OL competitions sometime during the summer. Makes them pay attention better, and train harder, cause they dont want to get their butts kicked and look stupid. And training harder and smarter and getting stronger makes them better at football. Which, again, was the goal all along.

So, I dont think there is anything wrong with a fighter figuring out what a decent number is for power cleans to help motivate them to get to that level. I would think that a bit of extra motivation to get a lift up to a higher level would help motivate you to train harder to get stronger. Which, I assume, is the goal.

 

[TrainingAdict]

Glenn.


Because of you I am going to work on improving my power clean numbers. I've been putting this lift on the stupid backburner for too long.

 

[enm4r]

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