Opinion Student Loan Debate: SCOTUS strikes down Biden sweeping debt forgiveness order

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

I can’t wait till the democrats help rid the students of a portion of this needless debt. That money should be put into the housing markets anyway, not wasted paying back interest on an education loan.

 

[mkess101]

Differ it. And if you want to change the way loans or schooling works in the future, then do it.

Those who have debt, you have debt. Deal with it.

The future is what nobody seems to want to address. Almost every kid still is guided toward a 4 year college while in high school. They apply for a bunch, even if they don't have great grades or do well on SAT/ACT. The nearly religious belief that you "need a college degree" is there, so colleges charge way more than it's worth. And banks will still lend.

Forgiving or differing debt now is one thing, but figuring out what to do going forward might be more important.

 

[Legicato]

LOL. I bet you're real rich, and totally not obese, getting Starbucks and all. You bring a rifle to the counter?

That's you ain't it.

If I was obese like you'd in be shitting my pants about covid in every thread. Like you.

 

[Bargey]

I get that the high]ly uneducated would feel left out if student loans are forgiven and they don’t get anything, but this debt, and the laws around it re: bankruptcy are a drag on the economy. It’s a very practical policy. Some sort of loan forgiveness, coupled with tuition free/reduced education needs to pass.

edit, personally I still have some student loan balance, not sure how much it’s almist gone, so I’m not even asking for myself.

What about the highly educated that sweated two jobs and forgoing the usual college fun to pay down their fees or had parents sweat it out? Do they get refunded?

 

[asdffdsa]

So if you forgive some or all or whatever of the current student loan debt...what are you going to do going forward? That seems like an important question.

Agree. Whatever the answer to that is should be done before any forgiveness of student loan debt. Otherwise this is pointless.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I agree with you, but unfortunately, any social safety net could be viewed as a slap in the face to someone who worked their ass off to get out of a situation.

True but this is wrong on more than 1 level. Is it permanently free(50k grant or whatever) from here on out? Another big thing is numerous people were denied entry or just straight up didn't go to college because of finances. Not everyone can qualify financially for large loans to go to the "best" universities or to be a full time student living by or at the college. So how are the less fortunate and those who busted their ass to pay off loans rewarded in this situation? 1.6 trillion dollars (and growing) of debt that they now owe some share of.

Fuck that.

If the government wants to do something buy all the loans and make them inflation only interest with whatever flexible of a plan that they want to come up with to pay them off.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

What about the highly educated that sweated two jobs and forgoing the usual college fun to pay down their fees or had parents sweat it out? Do they get refunded?

Waaaa! What about me! Waaaa!

 

[MastiffMike]

.

 

[Lead]

The poll was messed up. The deferred payments option was meant to say end of 2021 since it's already in place to defer to end of 2020. Change vote if necessary.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I'll just quote what I wrote in a different thread:

"As a parent of 2 kids currently in college (both at very expensive private colleges) I'm not a fan.

1. Most "debt forgiveness" plans only apply to kids that went to public colleges, thus hurting those that choose other options.
2. What about the people that were fiscally responsible and didn't rack up a ton of student loan debt?
3. Why should taxpayers bail out people that made bad decisions (again)?
4. Why should people that willingly choose to go to college and knowingly took on a large financial obligation be relieved of having to do what they said they'd do (paying back the money they took)?
5. Why should the people that made better/wiser financial decisions be penalized (not only don't receive money but they have to pay money/taxes to cover the bailout for the idiots)?

IMO the only way student loan debt forgiveness makes any sense is if the following is done:

Every person (within a certain age range) gets the same $ amount, regardless of ANY other factors/criteria.

• Went to a college and racked up a ton of debt = get $30k. Went to a community college = get $30k. Worked 2 jobs while in college to help pay as you go = get $30k. Went to a trade school and then into the workforce = get $30k. Didn't go to college and instead went right into the workforce = get $30k. Etc.
• Each and every person gets the exact same amount, regardless of current debt. Those that were fiscally responsible should not be penalized compared to those that weren't. My 2 kids will end up graduating with (slightly) different debt amounts, even though their colleges both cost about the same ($71k per year versus $73k). So one will end up with about $12k of debt and the other will have about $24k, one shouldn't benefit more/less than the other based on their debt.

Another aspect not often mentioned is the bankruptcy laws regarding student loan debt. While I agree that someone shouldn't be allowed to just rack up debt and then upon graduation file bankruptcy and avoid having to every pay that debt, the current system IS part of the problem. I think that bankruptcy forgiveness of student loan debt should be allowed to some extent, but only as a percentage, and only after some amount of time. If you file bankruptcy say 5 years after graduation then say something like 50% of the student loan debt is wiped away (assuming some criteria is in place so that payments weren't just deferred for years in avoidance of meeting the previously agreed to financial obligations of the loans). If you file bankruptcy immediately after graduating then there much less forgiveness since you've made essentially no attempt to fulfill your agreed to obligations. On the flip side, if 15 years after graduating college you file bankruptcy and you still have student loan debt, then it all goes away (again, assuming some efforts have been made through the previous years to make good faith effort to play the debt).

As for who get student loan forgiveness, that's a tricky question. IMO it needs to be a pretty wide swath of people (i.e. ages). Not just recent graduates but also those that graduated 8 years ago, and those currently of college age (18-22). In addition, if something's going to be done it needs to also encompass those students currently in high school when they get to college (so some sort of long term finance reform and not just a one time bailout). I'd propose a tiered benefit, based on the recipient's current age. Something along the lines of:
35+ = gets $0
30-35 = gets $10k
25-30 = gets $20k
20-25 = gets $30k
15-20 = gets $20k (a lesser amount that's offset by financial reforms)
<15 = gets $0 commitment now, assuming financial reforms eliminates the debt problem in the coming years. However, if reforms don't happen it'd be possible that another round of "relief" could be done.

TL/DR: Every single person (of a certain age), regardless of whether or not they made shit decisions, deserves the same financial windfall. And a change to bankruptcy laws as a last ditch safety net are necessary."

How are our kids getting $280k degrees and only coming out $12k in debt?

 

[mkess101]

eh as much as I like to disagree with the same thing you are disagreeing with. I'll throw one piece of anedcotal evidence at ya. I know a chick who graduated from my school with something like a 1.7 or 1.6 gpa? Her grades were all B's, C's and D's , and she even asked a professor one time if a D was a passing grade for this course because she had received credits for D's in other classes. Now that same chick, works at Tesla, has a BS in business, and makes 85k a year. I'm not sure she has any tangible aspects that set her apart from the most average applicant, yet she's been there for like 2 years in Santana row doing god knows what.

What I'm saying is, you can make pretty good money in the SF bay area by applying the least amount of effort in the right majors. My major is not one of those, but I've seen it time and time again with business students being that a BS is more than enough.

Okay...but like you said that's anecdotal. And $85k/year in the Bay area isn't amazing, that has among the highest cost of living in the country.

What's more common is kids being told they "Must have a college degree!" No matter the cost. Everyone pushes them towards it. Guidance counselors, parents, everyone. And often they end up in retail or with an entry level job, living with their parents, barely able to make payments (or unable to) on their student loan debt. There's $1.6 trillion in evidence that says this is true.

That's not to say that college is a bad thing. For a lot of kids, it makes sense. If it's right for my daughter (plenty of years away from figuring that out), I hope she goes and makes the most of it. But the nearly religious belief that it's necessary for every kid no matter the cost is one of the reasons we have this problem. And the colleges know people feel this way, so have no hesitation in continuously raising prices.

 

[12ga.]

Forgive it all of course. If they can gin up trillions to corporations in 2008, the QEs and CARES they can forgive 1-2 Trillion.

Not only that these kids will spend money on getting economy going again.

I'm for all sorts of Keynesian spending though. Reparations, child bonuses, UBI etc.

It works.

 

[mkess101]

Waaaa! What out me! Waaaa!

I'm curious to get your view on what happens going forward since you are seemingly in favor of this forgiveness. (For the record I'm not advocating for or against, I think there's positive and negatives about both views).

Current debt is one thing, but the same underlying issues that causes this massive amount of debt are still there. How do we address those? Because forgiveness of current debt is only part of the issue and doesn't mean nearly as much if the root of the problem still exists.

 

[Scheme]

If you cancel student debts now, new students will just incur debt in the future. What do you do then? Cancel theirs? At that point it is just a defacto free college program.

So the real argument is are you for free college or not? I am not, as I think the university system already has too many people that aren't making a good investment in their futures. There is a big opportunity cost of giving up 4 years of your life, and for the vast majory (75% or so) of people, their employment and degree are unrelated post-graduation. Why would people support 75% of people wasting 4 years of their life then?

I think the solution to exorbitant university costs is online learning, not 19 year old binge drinking daycares.

 

[12ga.]

I'll just quote what I wrote in a different thread:

"As a parent of 2 kids currently in college (both at very expensive private colleges) I'm not a fan.

1. Most "debt forgiveness" plans only apply to kids that went to public colleges, thus hurting those that choose other options.
2. What about the people that were fiscally responsible and didn't rack up a ton of student loan debt?
3. Why should taxpayers bail out people that made bad decisions (again)?
4. Why should people that willingly choose to go to college and knowingly took on a large financial obligation be relieved of having to do what they said they'd do (paying back the money they took)?
5. Why should the people that made better/wiser financial decisions be penalized (not only don't receive money but they have to pay money/taxes to cover the bailout for the idiots)?

IMO the only way student loan debt forgiveness makes any sense is if the following is done:

Every person (within a certain age range) gets the same $ amount, regardless of ANY other factors/criteria.

• Went to a college and racked up a ton of debt = get $30k. Went to a community college = get $30k. Worked 2 jobs while in college to help pay as you go = get $30k. Went to a trade school and then into the workforce = get $30k. Didn't go to college and instead went right into the workforce = get $30k. Etc.
• Each and every person gets the exact same amount, regardless of current debt. Those that were fiscally responsible should not be penalized compared to those that weren't. My 2 kids will end up graduating with (slightly) different debt amounts, even though their colleges both cost about the same ($71k per year versus $73k). So one will end up with about $12k of debt and the other will have about $24k, one shouldn't benefit more/less than the other based on their debt.

Another aspect not often mentioned is the bankruptcy laws regarding student loan debt. While I agree that someone shouldn't be allowed to just rack up debt and then upon graduation file bankruptcy and avoid having to every pay that debt, the current system IS part of the problem. I think that bankruptcy forgiveness of student loan debt should be allowed to some extent, but only as a percentage, and only after some amount of time. If you file bankruptcy say 5 years after graduation then say something like 50% of the student loan debt is wiped away (assuming some criteria is in place so that payments weren't just deferred for years in avoidance of meeting the previously agreed to financial obligations of the loans). If you file bankruptcy immediately after graduating then there much less forgiveness since you've made essentially no attempt to fulfill your agreed to obligations. On the flip side, if 15 years after graduating college you file bankruptcy and you still have student loan debt, then it all goes away (again, assuming some efforts have been made through the previous years to make good faith effort to play the debt).

As for who get student loan forgiveness, that's a tricky question. IMO it needs to be a pretty wide swath of people (i.e. ages). Not just recent graduates but also those that graduated 8 years ago, and those currently of college age (18-22). In addition, if something's going to be done it needs to also encompass those students currently in high school when they get to college (so some sort of long term finance reform and not just a one time bailout). I'd propose a tiered benefit, based on the recipient's current age. Something along the lines of:
35+ = gets $0
30-35 = gets $10k
25-30 = gets $20k
20-25 = gets $30k
15-20 = gets $20k (a lesser amount that's offset by financial reforms)
<15 = gets $0 commitment now, assuming financial reforms eliminates the debt problem in the coming years. However, if reforms don't happen it'd be possible that another round of "relief" could be done.

TL/DR: Every single person (of a certain age), regardless of whether or not they made shit decisions, deserves the same financial windfall. And a change to bankruptcy laws as a last ditch safety net are necessary."

What about people like me when it was $100 a quarter and I could do it with summer work alone and no debt? How is it fair these kids are chained to debt for life with hundreds of thousands?

Not only that - even if I had debt, I could discharge it through bankruptcy unlike these kids today. And many did - hence the law change. I believe it was in 1993 or 1996.. Eitherway, I graduated in 1992 with BS in accounting. Woulda been safe.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I'm curious to get your view on what happens going forward since you are seemingly in favor of this forgiveness. (For the record I'm not advocating for or against, I think there's positive and negatives about both views).

Current debt is one thing, but the same underlying issues that causes this massive amount of debt are still there. How do we address those? Because forgiveness of current debt is only part of the issue and doesn't mean nearly as much if the root of the problem still exists.

There absolutely, 100% needs to b something done about the cost of a college degree. You can’t just throw money at this and walk away. I think public college should go back to the way it was and be free/ almost free. That’s one example

 

[mkess101]

Just remember you quoted me first. You still don’t get that.

Oh I do, because...it's a forum, genius. I thought you might be capable of actually discussing the thread topic. That was my mistake, I was very wrong. You are not. If you can't froth at the mouth and bitch and whine about your ideological counterparts, you have nothing to add.

 

[mkess101]

There absolutely, 100% needs to b something done about the cost of a college degree. You can’t just throw money at this and walk away. I think public college should go back to the way it was and be free/ almost free. That’s one example

Yeah, and I think that's what people need to realize. You need to overhaul a lot of things to make it viable again. I don't know for sure the best way to do it, but you're exactly right in that you can't just "pump and dump" cash at current debt and then walk away as if the problem has been solved.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Other: cancel interest on student loans, at least the federal ones. Just pay back what was borrowed, not make a profit off student borrowers

Also, allow people in student loan debt to file for bankruptcy like anyone in any other kind of debt their over their heads in

Do something about how freaking much the universities are charging in the first place. No way it should be that expensive to teach students.

 

[llperez22]

whats the difference from student loan debt and credit debt? I know first hadn that credit debt isnt always about living beyond you rmeans, its could be about financial hardship. Where do we draw the line?