Opinion Student Loan Debate: SCOTUS strikes down Biden sweeping debt forgiveness order

[Crim]

I paid off north of 35k in loans. Do I get a refund?

Most the idiots burdened with debt picked some lazy ass major so they can binge drink Thursday-Sunday on frat row. Fuck em.

 

[Ornife]

Well its idiots that spent 100k on a arts degree to barista in starbucks now, while at 20s ten years ago no education I pulled near 50k a year in construction. Only left casue I deemed the work to much for said pay, make less now but do very little for it.

And defaulting on your loan is leeching, all the debt loans I ever accumulated I payed off eventually.

I started off as a laborer on-site and was able to start my pipefitter apprenticeship during the 2016 oil crash so I certainly understand the value and need of work ethic and making sensible choices. I genuinely think your post makes a great deal of sense and is, in many ways, is very true.

That said, we should consider that many young people were effectively indoctrinated throughout secondary school to believe that post-secondary, regardless of content, is a path to success. I have huge sympathy for people who grew up constantly being told that a bachelor's degree was the way to success and never had the opportunity to have an opposing view.

 

[Protectandserve]

I support this, pay my mortgage down 50k if you are relieving debt.

What an absolute slap in the face to people that worked their asses off paying loans off.

My school was paid for by a deployment to Afghanistan.

 

[Ornife]

Those people were legal adults by the time they took their loans, they had families they could have sleeked advice from or god forbid they actually research stuff and educated them selves.
They could have worked as they went to school, as my wife did yet they choose not to.

Fundamentally their decisions are in no way shape or form On me or anyone lese to pay for or fix.

I agree. They were adults and they should have been responsible. It also bothers me that I have to pay for another seeming typically functioning individual's error.

That said, I just believe that most people are a product of their environment and, for the most part, children are rarely actually taught to think for themselves. At the same time, I imagine that radical socialist movements will continue to rise and amplify if generations of young people continue to feel unable to meaningfully engage in the system.

It all sucks if you followed your own path or paid for your own education, but this is all super grim regardless of how you decide to proceed.

 

[High Altitude]

Wife and I paid ours, you can too.

You sign, you pay. The terms of the loan are all in black and white.

Don't want to be in debt, don't sign and do something else.

 

[Pride23]

This would be a boost for the economy and whom ever has student loan debt but it doesn't solve the actual underlying issues which will just continue.

 

[Seano]

I honestly don't understand the reasoning behind people thinking they shouldn't have to pay off their debt.

 

[G-19]

My school was paid for by a deployment to Afghanistan.

Whenever people talk about socialized medicine and free college I always say the same thing lol.

 

[matheuss92]

refinance those loans and sell it to a company willing to buy. American way of life motherfucker

 

[Ornife]

100%. If we're really the richest and most ingenious nation on Earth, then we should live up to that self-label by creating reforms that actually lead to greater educational outcomes for a maximized number of people in the USA.

Again, from my personal experience, I see two issues I find particularly frustrating.

First, some older teachers in critical positions often seem to become complacent and generally uninterested in meaningfully engaging with students. Part of this seems to be the result of a grinding, underfunded system that devalues educators. Another part seems to be bad faith teachers taking advantage of the system and being protected and sheltered by the union to the detriment of students.

Second, the underfunded reality of the system means that many new educators are unable to receive sufficient support and mentorship to succeed. Again, to the detriment of students.

It's really depressing, man.

 

[mkess101]

This article is from a DECADE ago...and yet people still have a religious belief that college is for everyone and is a "value" regardless of cost.There is NO investment that's a value "regardless of cost", but that idiotic belief has allowed universities to continually raise costs over the years with no fear of it's customers going away.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/12/16/e...ontributors-jerry-bowyer.html?sh=4c94730f7e4d

 

[hillelslovak87]

And I don't care for lazy fucks who want others to pay for their mistakes.

Grow up man up and better your own life, if illiterate immigrants from backward hellholes can come and success wtf is your excuse.

Cool, so you've got an insult against the idea of lazy people, a view which is not supported in reality, but anger.

Coooooooooool.

Btw, I'm in a bachelor's program right now, so your little "You only care about others because your life is shit!!" gambit failed. But hey, you're one step closer to seeing the value of diversity, boyo!!!

 

[Legicato]

Cool, so you've got an insult against the idea of lazy people, a view which is not supported in reality, but anger.

Coooooooooool.

Btw, I'm in a bachelor's program right now, so your little "You only care about others because your life is shit!!" gambit failed. But hey, you're one step closer to seeing the value of diversity, boyo!!!

And you'll be serving me Starbucks soon enough as you cry for loan forgiveness.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Let's invest in Americans, and stop with this self hating, we're idiots shit.

From poor blacks in the inner city to poor Appalachian whites, this nation has serious issues with educational investment, and leaving generations behind, absent a proper education.

I don't care for your pathetic apathy........

Almost everyone in America can get a good free education. The students and parents are the ones not investing their time to make k-12 worthwhile. Honestly if you're not getting at least all A and Bs in high-school you're either very low IQ or didn't give a fuck.

 

[Krixes]

Not for it at all. What about trade schools? What about those who already paid off their debt? What about those who didn't pursue, or have the chance to go to college. It's never a good idea to reward only a certain group of society, it builds resentment. Who pays for this all, taxpayers? This creates entitlement.....

 

[Ornife]

Almost everyone in America can get a good free education. The students and parents are the ones not investing their time to make k-12 worthwhile. Honestly if you're not getting at least all A and Bs in high-school you're either very low IQ or didn't give a fuck.

Not sure if I agree about "good", but standards have certainly dropped and it has never been easier to achieve a high GPA.

Totally agree about the importance of parents actively being involved in the educational success of their children; however, that is still somewhat dependant on the realities of class for many individuals.

 

[mkess101]

So if you forgive some or all or whatever of the current student loan debt...what are you going to do going forward? That seems like an important question. Are we still going to subsidize loans for something where the underlying asset most often isn't worth the price being charged? Is anyone even thinking along these lines? Do people even understand what's at the root of this issue, or just "Hey a bunch of people owe too much money that they can't pay back..."

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Let's invest in Americans, and stop with this self hating, we're idiots shit.

From poor blacks in the inner city to poor Appalachian whites, this nation has serious issues with educational investment, and leaving generations behind, absent a proper education.

I don't care for your pathetic apathy........

The modern day right wing mocks higher education. Hell, they’ve spent the last 40 years calling these people elites who indoctrinate your kids with Marxist ideology.


It’s no surprise this is the fallout from 4 decades of bashing higher education.

 

[Lord Coke]

Allow for student loans to be dischargeable in bankruptcy but otherwise don't discharge them. I am agnostic on deferring them.
I think it would be sick and frankly unfair to discharge student loan debt without bankruptcy. What about everyone that paid them off and everyone that did not go to college because they did not want to go into debt especially the ones that joined the military to get the GI Bill.

No thread yet on this but I think it will become a focus in DC once Biden's term kicks off.

More and more people have been pursuing undergraduate and graduate education in the past few decades, leading to student loan debt to become the largest consumer debt category aside from mortgage debt at 1.6T (over 4x what it was in 2004). Democrats have had student loan forgiveness on their checklist for quite sometime. In the primary, you had an array of plans addressing it, from Bernie Sanders calling for full forgiveness, Warren for those making up to 100k (with phase outs afterwards), and Biden with a 10k forgiveness plan in return for 1 year of public service.

Once COVID hit, student loan payments were deferred, defaulted collections/interest paused ultimately by the SoE then Congress and the President until September 30, 2020. Trump then did a EO which continued the pause until the end of the year.

Last week, Schumer along with Warren called for Biden to do a EO forgiving 50k. Biden initially responded with a reference to his 10k in forgiveness possibly without the 1 year service involved. He has since met with Schumer and Pelosi this Friday to discuss this and other COVID relief points that could possibly be passed next year.

Some breakdowns in the debt:

Some viewpoints from each position:
Proponents For:
-The forgiveness or deferment would provide financial relief during the COVID crisis
-Beyond the crisis, loan carriers would now be able to use the money for spending elsewhere or savings
-The forgiveness would address the racial (black-white) wealth gap possibly by 25 points
-To continue for a policy of universal secondary education, prior loans should be addressed as well
-Some higher education degrees are important to society but their career income prospects are significantly lower than the cost in attaining the degree(s) needed
-The cost of this (lower revenues) would be taken over a long course of time and not have an immediate large cash impact for the federal government

Proponents Against:
-This will not solve the problem of rising secondary/post secondary tuition; it addresses a symptom rather than a main ongoing problem
-The distribution among income/ wealth brackets isn't necessarily progressive as nearly half of the debt is with graduate degrees and 35% of balances are with the top 20% income bracket
-Stimulus for COVID relief can be distributed through better means
-Those who made the decision to not to pursue further education were unable to factor in this forgiveness into their decision and are already likely in fixed career trajectory at this point


You may also notice there's a whole other debate on whether this has to be done via legislation or simply executive order.

Some further reading:
Is This Where We Are, America? (New York Times)
Canceling Student Debt Is Not Progressive (RealClearEducation)
Can Joe Biden forgive student debt without Congress? Here’s what the experts say (CNBC)
Forgive Student Loans, but Only a Little (Wall Street Journal)
Go Ahead, Forgive Student Debt (The Atlantic)
No, Joe Biden Can’t Forgive $50,000 Of Student Loans (Forbes)
Biden shouldn’t listen to Schumer and Warren on student loans (Washington Post)
Why Forgive Student Debt? (The Urban Institute)
No, Your Student Loans Should Not Be Forgiven (The Heritage Foundation)


What are your thoughts on student loan forgiveness? Should some or any of the balances be forgiven beyond the programs we already have in place? If not, should deferred payments continue during this period of COVID?

for

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't love it, but it might be a good way to provide a short-term boost to the economy if other forms of stimulus are blocked.