Striking in MMA will look more and more like this

[Tony Manifold]

Source ^ MMA Underground Forums bottom of the page

MFC snares top young prospect
Posted: By MFC Staff - June, 2010


Product of ZUMA camp considered first-class phenom

If there ever was a top-ranked, first-overall pick to be selected in a mixed martial arts amateur draft, the Maximum Fighting Championship feels it has made the right choice by snaring a can

 

[anubismcdeath]

i'd love to try this on the pads, does it translate into sparring? what other advantages do you think it has?

my boxing coach isn't a fan at all he thinks it's only for conditioning

Roger Mayweather Working the Mitts is a good 5 part video on youtube

It will help a bit in sparring, but it's no secret moves, its more like programing to counter a counter, and when we do it we wait and let the guy holding the mitts decide how many punches before he does his counters so as to not make it choreographed. It helps with defence and the uppercut on the same side is the natural counter to the body hook though so if drilled enough then you will throw it on instinct, and the cross is a great counter after going under the left hook. We do this as well as drills where you add the pull, slip, roll, etc.... and ad counters as the kids get better. There is nothing miraculous about it though but I think it helps for sure. Watch those roger Mayweather mitt vids, the real magic is the defence stuff he does.

 

[Tony Manifold]

It will help a bit in sparring, but it's no secret moves, its more like programing to counter a counter, and when we do it we wait and let the guy holding the mitts decide how many punches before he does his counters so as to not make it choreographed. It helps with defence and the uppercut on the same side is the natural counter to the body hook though so if drilled enough then you will throw it on instinct, and the cross is a great counter after going under the left hook. We do this as well as drills where you add the pull, slip, roll, etc.... and ad counters as the kids get better. There is nothing miraculous about it though but I think it helps for sure. Watch those roger Mayweather mitt vids, the real magic is the defence stuff he does.

Outside of the ring, Roger is dumb as rat shit and twice as crazy but inside working those mitts, he is a genius.

 

[The Fan Man]

I really agree with Tony Manifold's overall thesis. Today, most of (good) MMA is exploiting a guys weakness and limitation. Strikers have to learn TDD and how to get back to their feet, wrestlers learn stand-up footwork and submission defense, and grapplers have to learn more effective ways to bring a fight to the ground and defend against strikes. Fighters come into MMA with one aspect that could be considered good and have to bring the other two disciplines to competent if they don't want to be a quick work.

That's not going to be the wave of the future. Guys are learning the basics of their nondominant styles earlier and learn to transition between those disciplines without giving up an advantage.

That being said, I also very much understand Kid McCoy's point about the top guys not leaving their natural sport to cross train until they've outlived their prime. The top boxers will train exclusively to be top boxers. The money, the prestige, the history, and the money dictate that.

It's the same reason you see great high school wrestlers go on to play football in college instead of wrestle. There has been an incredible wrestler in the state of Nebraska named Ron Coleman. In the largest class, he won 215 his first two years and then went undefeated at HWT in his last two. However, instead of continuing on the mat, he's going to Southeast Missouri State to play football.

As far as the mitt work goes, here's Part 1 of an instructional video Roger made about how to work the mitts.

 

[Tony Manifold]

As far as the mitt work goes, here's Part 1 of an instructional video Roger made about how to work the mitts.

That is another thing to factor in, my coach is good and probably has a better boxing lineage (thru his boxing coach to Lou Duva) then a lot of MMA trainers but he is no Roger Mayweather. Interestingly enough, the other MMA gym in town is run by a former Pro boxer. He was on the canadian National team as an Amateur and trained at Wildcard in LA during his short career. As I have said before, for the size of town we have here, we are blessed with the level of talent we have (not just in sports but in most things).

Still with that said, most mma fighters have, at best, a club fighter level trainer as their boxing coach. Eventually, they will have to seek out really skilled trainers if they want to improve.

 

[The Fan Man]

That is another thing to factor in, my coach is good and probably has a better boxing lineage (thru his boxing coach to Lou Duva) then a lot of MMA trainers but he is no Roger Mayweather. Interestingly enough, the other MMA gym in town is run by a former Pro boxer. He was on the canadian National team as an Amateur and trained at Wildcard in LA during his short career. As I have said before, for the size of town we have here, we are blessed with the level of talent we have (not just in sports but in most things).

Still with that said, most mma fighters have, at best, a club fighter level trainer as their boxing coach. Eventually, they will have to seek out really skilled trainers if they want to improve.

That's the rub, having a trainer that can really teach the skills and the sport.

I remember seeing a video of Tito going to the Wildcard Gym working with an assistant trainer on the fundamental mechanics of a punch. I don't think there will be too many MMA champions that get to their 30s without that skill in the next decade.

That being said, I'm afraid that MMA gyms becoming the next McDojos. As with all sports, I'm sure the top talent will find their way to proper coaching, but that next level might be compromised by trainers without experience, lineage, and applicable knowledge.

 

[deadguy70]

I'd favor Cung Le in a stand up fight over any top Boxer at his weight of 170-180.

Sanshou & TD mixed together.....

you mean Cung Le, the guy who got KOd by world-level, top ranked boxer Scott Smith?

geeez....

 

[Tony Manifold]

you mean Cung Le, the guy who got KOd by world-level, top ranked boxer Scott Smith?

geeez....

Say what you want about Scott smith's skill level, he has sledge hammers for fists (since 2004 all his wins have come by KO/TKO). Le completely dominated him prior to the KO and destroyed him in the rematch.

 

[Code N]

This thread no longer interest me. Everything being said now are just reiterations of what people said earlier. It almost seems like an attempt to get in the last word, it's very similar to when children argue.

 

[deadguy70]

Say what you want about Scott smith's skill level, he has sledge hammers for fists (since 2004 all his wins have come by KO/TKO). Le completely dominated him prior to the KO and destroyed him in the rematch.

Smith is a tough guy, I know, but the argument about Le being above the top 170 boxers stand-up wise is just idiotic. Even in kickboxing Le never fought the top K-1 Max guys, so where does this shit come from about him beating boxing champions?

I do like MMA and boxing, but when someone comes up with absolute-truth kind of arguments dismissing the other sport just makes me mad.

 

[consortium11]

Smith is a tough guy, I know, but the argument about Le being above the top 170 boxers stand-up wise is just idiotic. Even in kickboxing Le never fought the top K-1 Max guys, so where does this shit come from about him beating boxing champions?

I do like MMA and boxing, but when someone comes up with absolute-truth kind of arguments dismissing the other sport just makes me mad.

To be fair, he's in a different weight class to Max fighters.

To balance it out there's the fact that he never fought any of the top San Shou guys either...

 

[Trifick]

I'm glad that most of you are having an intelligent debate.

I post in the boxing forum from time to time, and I respect boxing. But to be honest, boxing really isn't an important asset to MMA. You have to understand MMA fighters stand differently than boxers so they can utilize their kicks, and instead of walking straight forward, mma fighters circle. It's a whole different sport.

Yes, boxing is still an important skill to have, but honestly, kickboxing is more important pertaining to the stand up. Karate, Kung fu, just about any martial art is better for MMA.Kicks are very crucial in MMA.

Now, of course grappling is the most important source of MMA. No doubt about it. Whether it is wrestling or BJJ; That's the actual debate.

You talk about TDD defense like it's easy. You do realize that wrestling is one of the hardest; most technical sports out there don't you?

Not even 2 years could prepare you to grapple with a professional grappler. And that include TDD.

Let me tell you something, I don't care how big you are, or how great you are on the feet. If you don't have grappling skills, nothing is going to stop a professional grappler from taking you down. NOTHING. If it's it's a wrestler, BJJ artist, or Judo guy, your ass is on the ground if they want you there. I have more to say, but I'm busy right now. I'll keep in touch.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Smith is a tough guy, I know, but the argument about Le being above the top 170 boxers stand-up wise is just idiotic. Even in kickboxing Le never fought the top K-1 Max guys, so where does this shit come from about him beating boxing champions?

I do like MMA and boxing, but when someone comes up with absolute-truth kind of arguments dismissing the other sport just makes me mad.

I think it comes from the fact that he throws, and lands effectively, kicks that were not supposed to work in MMA. His boxing is pretty weak from any where but a distance. But one of the reason he can do that shit is he comes from a wrestling background + the fact that Sansou involves a lot of throwing.

 

[deadguy70]

To be fair, he's in a different weight class to Max fighters.

To balance it out there's the fact that he never fought any of the top San Shou guys either...

Point taken, although it would be only fair for Le to face Buakaw or Masato instead of Ray Sefo or Semmy Schilt...

Le is very good, all I'm saying is that you can't put him in the same league with the top middleweight boxing champs...

 

[deadguy70]

I think it comes from the fact that he throws, and lands effectively, kicks that were not supposed to work in MMA. His boxing is pretty weak from any where but a distance. But one of the reason he can do that shit is he comes from a wrestling background + the fact that Sansou involves a lot of throwing.

Completely agree, I like the fact that he throws all kinds of kicks without worrying bout getting wrestled down. High kicks, spinning kicks, axe kicks...MMA fans (or shall I say, UFC fans) are not used to that because they never saw CroCop in his prime, never bothered to watch K-1 where guys like Aerts, Hug and Hoost killed opponents with all kinds of kicks...

 

[BIGthingsSON]

I'm glad that most of you are having an intelligent debate.

I post in the boxing forum from time to time, and I respect boxing. But to be honest, boxing really isn't an important asset to MMA. You have to understand MMA fighters stand differently than boxers so they can utilize their kicks, and instead of walking straight forward, mma fighters circle. It's a whole different sport.

Yes, boxing is still an important skill to have, but honestly, kickboxing is more important pertaining to the stand up. Karate, Kung fu, just about any martial art is better for MMA.Kicks are very crucial in MMA.

Now, of course grappling is the most important source of MMA. No doubt about it. Whether it is wrestling or BJJ; That's the actual debate.

You talk about TDD defense like it's easy. You do realize that wrestling is one of the hardest; most technical sports out there don't you?

Not even 2 years could prepare you to grapple with a professional grappler. And that include TDD.

Let me tell you something, I don't care how big you are, or how great you are on the feet. If you don't have grappling skills, nothing is going to stop a professional grappler from taking you down. NOTHING. If it's it's a wrestler, BJJ artist, or Judo guy, your ass is on the ground if they want you there. I have more to say, but I'm busy right now. I'll keep in touch.

You must have never taken up any striking art, let alone boxing.

 

[Metsudragon**]

I'm glad that most of you are having an intelligent debate.

I post in the boxing forum from time to time, and I respect boxing. But to be honest, boxing really isn't an important asset to MMA. You have to understand MMA fighters stand differently than boxers so they can utilize their kicks, and instead of walking straight forward, mma fighters circle. It's a whole different sport.

Yes, boxing is still an important skill to have, but honestly, kickboxing is more important pertaining to the stand up. Karate, Kung fu, just about any martial art is better for MMA.Kicks are very crucial in MMA.

Wait what?

 

[Code N]

You must have never taken up any striking art, let alone boxing.

I was thinking the same thing when I read his post. But his post was so ridiculous it kind of blew me away for a sec. I had to go walk it off.

 

[Trifick]

You must have never taken up any striking art, let alone boxing.

Kung fu for 14 years. I practiced Karate and dabbled in other forms of Martial arts as well. I won't list my sash color though.

I stand by my statement. proffesional Boxing is less important in MMA, than any other aspect of MMA. I should have made that more clear. Of course it's just my opinion. You don't use kicks in boxing, and I've seen a boxer go into kick boxing, and basically had his legs chopped off. He fell like a tree. They don't know how to deal with it.

Grappling is the most important though. Instead of trying to insult me, how about arguing with actual points, or proving me wrong.

 

[Code N]

Kung fu for 14 years. I practiced Karate and dabbled in other forms of Martial arts as well. I won't list my sash color though.

I stand by my statement. proffesional Boxing is less important in MMA, than any other aspect of MMA. I should have made that more clear. Of course it's just my opinion. You don't use kicks in boxing, and I've seen a boxer go into kick boxing, and basically had his legs chopped off. He fell like a tree. They don't know how to deal with it.

Grappling is the most important though. Instead of trying to insult me, how about arguing with actual points, or proving me wrong.

That's not why he said that. You completely ignored the sentences in bold.