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Striking in MMA will look more and more like this

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Abishai**, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Abishai**

    Abishai** Black Belt

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    As many of us would agree, striking/boxing in MMA is pretty embarrassing. As I was watching the Bonnar vs Soz fight and the Leben vs Akiyama fight...I thought to myself, a boxer with adequate takedown defense would destroy these fighters. Don't get me wrong...both fights were exciting and I was cheering on Stephan Bonnar as he was swinging and was yelling when Akiyama and Leben were trading... but their striking leaves much to be desired.

    That being said...one fighter last Saturday demonstrated good striking/boxing (by mma standards). Sotiropoulos used very rudimentary boxing skills (jab, straight) to frustrate and hurt Kurt Pelligrino.


    It reminded me how Kenny Florian completely embarrassed Gomi by using a simple jab that set the tempo for the entire fight.

    I'm just surprised it's taking so long for many MMA fighters to utilize basic boxing fundamentals in their training regimen.
     
  2. Triangle Choke

    Triangle Choke Brown Belt

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    Yea I thought the same thing with George Sotiropolous. He was rolling with punches, maintaining distance, and putting his punches together. One can only hope that Berto or Cintron decide to make a career change and go into MMA.
     
  3. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

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    Let me digress a little...

    Many believe that good boxing, generating the speed and power, shifting weight, perfecting accuracy and timing, is the most difficult aspect of MMA to perfect.
    “The easiest to learn and the most difficult to perfect” is the theme I hear from fighters & trainers involved with MMA.
    Frank Shamrock and Erik Paulson are both quoted saying that on YouTube clips as are others.

    Add to this the giant “brain drain” created by an annual net income in boxing being still some x4 as high pulling away anyone who can fight a lick with his hands as the chief weapon and there you have it.

    Boxing; i.e. the use of punches for fighting in a manner derived from trial & error perfection in actual contests as opposed to those developed through traditional martial arts theoretics, was the last skill compartment to get on board in MMA on a ‘world class” level (still a W.I.P.) because, obviously, the best practitioners of the other associated skill brackets had no better place to showcase their wares for pay or for large audiences.

    Naturally, anyone who devotes himself solely to boxing is likely to become adept at it to a greater extent than one who splits his efforts among ranges.

    These are the explanations.

    Defenders of MMA would like to believe that “MMA boxing is a different thing”, but that is just silly, and speaks to a gap in knowledge of what boxing actually is.
    They’ve even invented a term to describe off balance, light hitting, inaccurate, leaving yourself open boxing, called “dirty boxing” as a means of claiming Boxing (seen as a competing sport in this context) has no direct impact on their new, still evolving sport of MMA.

    But in fact, Boxing is not a call & response art like traditional MA’s predominantly are. It’s is a narrow skill set applied dynamically and intuitively, and therefore by nature is designed to bend to varying applications, like fighting a 5’9” southpaw hooker in July and a 6’5” right handed speedster in August, who is in effect, practicing a ‘different martial art’ against you than last month’s opponent did.
    Adapting to sprawl, leg checks, elbows, backhands, etc. is a very natural thing for an adapt boxer to do.

    “Dirty boxing” is not an augmented form of Boxing adapted for a changed environment. Plain old Boxing adapts on it’s own through practice. “Dirty Boxing” is simply boxing being done by someone who’s not coordinated enough to do it very well, and is therefore relegated to a historically and monetarily 2nd tier prizefighting promotion that leans on grappling for half its result.
     
  4. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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  5. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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  6. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    you get that in boxing too though, especially at the heavier weights. Awkward means "Looks terrible but seems to work".
     
  7. pretzelguard

    pretzelguard Purple Belt

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    is that you floyd?
    remember in mma you dont just have to be cautious of the hands. there are elbows, kicks, knees then takedowns so the game is different. its like saying that in boxing they have a really shit clinch game. boxing is one aspect of mma and there are LOADS of facets to it so whilst a good boxer might have success sometimes its unlikely that a good boxer with good tdd will be able to stop a shot every time. then if it hits the ground whats he got? nothing, because hes probably spent all his time training his hands.
     
  8. Code N

    Code N Orange Belt

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    Basically what you said is that MMA fighters aren't good boxers so that's why they look weird throwing punches.

    I don't quite understand the video. He's hitting the mitts. Then 23 seconds into the video it looks like he edited something out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  9. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    What I basically said was that MMA is a young sport and the guys that are on the top of the food chain right now didn't need top shelf boxing when they started. As kid McCoy posted boxing is
     
  10. Fisticuffa

    Fisticuffa Purple Belt

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    Sotiropoulos vs Kurt was the saving grace of a slopfest of a card.

    It was nice to see some proper basic Boxing used for a change instead of guys swinging for the fences.

    Whom does Sotiropoulos train with, you know?
     
  11. KOQ24

    KOQ24 Gold Belt

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    I was really impressed with the Boxing that George picked up.

    Although UFC 116 was pretty entertaining most fights had sloppy striking.
    The fact that Carwin dropped the Champ with a rudimentary,telegraphed uppercut says everything about the Level of Boxing displayed
    Bonnar showed some good Muay Thai.
     
  12. Code N

    Code N Orange Belt

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    I want to make something clear; I did not attack MMA, or Mixed martial artist. I was just trying to interpret your gun analogy.

    Which basically said their not good boxers because they are jack of all trades master at none.

    And I do not agree with you when you said a jab is a jab, and a hook is a hook. You make it seem like all jabs are equally good, and effective; it makes it seem like all jabs are the same, and it makes it seem like it requires no skill to throw a good jab in a fight. I do agree that people can make the jab their own by changing somethings up, but ultimately when a jab, or hook is bad it's not because they make it their own to accommodate their sport, it's just bad. (I'm not necessarily talking about MMA, I'm also talking about boxing.)
     
  13. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    I can see where you are coming from now. Mma fighters will never develop their hands to the same level of boxers because they have to spend their time on other things as well. Also the manner in which they use those skills will be different because the environment is different.
    Maybe I should have said a good jab is a good jab. The mechanics of a jab don't change although the usage may.
     
  14. nip102

    nip102 Purple Belt

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  15. Basileus

    Basileus Blue Belt

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  16. Code N

    Code N Orange Belt

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    Then why call it MMA if they just need BJJ, or Wrestling training?

    I think you should withhold judgment until you see a good boxer with a good BJJ, or a good wrestling background.

    Instead of judging bad boxers with wrestling backgrounds.

    EDIT: A great mixed martial artist would be well rounded in every aspect including striking.
    EDIT: Also weight distribution has very little to do with bad striking (EDIT: Yes, I'm aware that weight distribution in general is important)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  17. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    Mo Smith was one of the first striking purists to hold the UFC title. Cro Cop was also the Pride Grand Prix open weight champ.

    Agree with you on the lead leg thing.
     
  18. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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    Mo was a striker, through and through no doubt, but at what point does one lose the 'purist' moniker? Mo trained with a great number of grapplers, and was victorious over Coleman because he adapted his game with fundamental grappling. If a striker learns how to grapple, and uses that knowledge to strike, is he a pure striker?

    As soon as a great boxer WITH good wrestling and BJJ enters MMA, he will no longer be a 'boxer' but a mixed fighter. A 'pure' boxer would only be able to use techniques from his chosen discipline.
     
  19. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

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    That
     
  20. TheRainSong

    TheRainSong Purple Belt

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    Sotiropoulos showed good boxing for MMA.....atleast better than 90% of the street brawlers you normally see. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting he's a future IBF titleholder but I have to admit, seeing him utilize boxing was breadth of fresh air.
     

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