Striking in MMA will look more and more like this

Abishai**

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As many of us would agree, striking/boxing in MMA is pretty embarrassing. As I was watching the Bonnar vs Soz fight and the Leben vs Akiyama fight...I thought to myself, a boxer with adequate takedown defense would destroy these fighters. Don't get me wrong...both fights were exciting and I was cheering on Stephan Bonnar as he was swinging and was yelling when Akiyama and Leben were trading... but their striking leaves much to be desired.

That being said...one fighter last Saturday demonstrated good striking/boxing (by mma standards). Sotiropoulos used very rudimentary boxing skills (jab, straight) to frustrate and hurt Kurt Pelligrino.


It reminded me how Kenny Florian completely embarrassed Gomi by using a simple jab that set the tempo for the entire fight.

I'm just surprised it's taking so long for many MMA fighters to utilize basic boxing fundamentals in their training regimen.
 
Yea I thought the same thing with George Sotiropolous. He was rolling with punches, maintaining distance, and putting his punches together. One can only hope that Berto or Cintron decide to make a career change and go into MMA.
 
As many of us would agree, striking/boxing in MMA is pretty embarrassing. As I was watching the Bonnar vs Soz fight and the Leben vs Akiyama fight...I thought to myself, a boxer with adequate takedown defense would destroy these fighters. Don't get me wrong...both fights were exciting and I was cheering on Stephan Bonnar as he was swinging and was yelling when Akiyama and Leben were trading... but their striking leaves much to be desired.

That being said...one fighter last Saturday demonstrated good striking/boxing (by mma standards). Sotiropoulos used very rudimentary boxing skills (jab, straight) to frustrate and hurt Kurt Pelligrino.


It reminded me how Kenny Florian completely embarrassed Gomi by using a simple jab that set the tempo for the entire fight.

I'm just surprised it's taking so long for many MMA fighters to utilize basic boxing fundamentals in their training regimen.





Let me digress a little...

Many believe that good boxing, generating the speed and power, shifting weight, perfecting accuracy and timing, is the most difficult aspect of MMA to perfect.
“The easiest to learn and the most difficult to perfect” is the theme I hear from fighters & trainers involved with MMA.
Frank Shamrock and Erik Paulson are both quoted saying that on YouTube clips as are others.

Add to this the giant “brain drain” created by an annual net income in boxing being still some x4 as high pulling away anyone who can fight a lick with his hands as the chief weapon and there you have it.

Boxing; i.e. the use of punches for fighting in a manner derived from trial & error perfection in actual contests as opposed to those developed through traditional martial arts theoretics, was the last skill compartment to get on board in MMA on a ‘world class” level (still a W.I.P.) because, obviously, the best practitioners of the other associated skill brackets had no better place to showcase their wares for pay or for large audiences.

Naturally, anyone who devotes himself solely to boxing is likely to become adept at it to a greater extent than one who splits his efforts among ranges.

These are the explanations.

Defenders of MMA would like to believe that “MMA boxing is a different thing”, but that is just silly, and speaks to a gap in knowledge of what boxing actually is.
They’ve even invented a term to describe off balance, light hitting, inaccurate, leaving yourself open boxing, called “dirty boxing” as a means of claiming Boxing (seen as a competing sport in this context) has no direct impact on their new, still evolving sport of MMA.

But in fact, Boxing is not a call & response art like traditional MA’s predominantly are. It’s is a narrow skill set applied dynamically and intuitively, and therefore by nature is designed to bend to varying applications, like fighting a 5’9” southpaw hooker in July and a 6’5” right handed speedster in August, who is in effect, practicing a ‘different martial art’ against you than last month’s opponent did.
Adapting to sprawl, leg checks, elbows, backhands, etc. is a very natural thing for an adapt boxer to do.

“Dirty boxing” is not an augmented form of Boxing adapted for a changed environment. Plain old Boxing adapts on it’s own through practice. “Dirty Boxing” is simply boxing being done by someone who’s not coordinated enough to do it very well, and is therefore relegated to a historically and monetarily 2nd tier prizefighting promotion that leans on grappling for half its result.
 
Your post is dead on, but the term 'dirty boxing' as applied in MMA is supposed to be applied to any hold-and-hitting, or striking with the fists in the clinch. More often, what you are talking about is described as a fighter having an 'awkward' style.

you get that in boxing too though, especially at the heavier weights. Awkward means "Looks terrible but seems to work".
 
As many of us would agree, striking/boxing in MMA is pretty embarrassing. As I was watching the Bonnar vs Soz fight and the Leben vs Akiyama fight...I thought to myself, a boxer with adequate takedown defense would destroy these fighters. Don't get me wrong...both fights were exciting and I was cheering on Stephan Bonnar as he was swinging and was yelling when Akiyama and Leben were trading... but their striking leaves much to be desired.

That being said...one fighter last Saturday demonstrated good striking/boxing (by mma standards). Sotiropoulos used very rudimentary boxing skills (jab, straight) to frustrate and hurt Kurt Pelligrino.


It reminded me how Kenny Florian completely embarrassed Gomi by using a simple jab that set the tempo for the entire fight.

I'm just surprised it's taking so long for many MMA fighters to utilize basic boxing fundamentals in their training regimen.


is that you floyd?
remember in mma you dont just have to be cautious of the hands. there are elbows, kicks, knees then takedowns so the game is different. its like saying that in boxing they have a really shit clinch game. boxing is one aspect of mma and there are LOADS of facets to it so whilst a good boxer might have success sometimes its unlikely that a good boxer with good tdd will be able to stop a shot every time. then if it hits the ground whats he got? nothing, because hes probably spent all his time training his hands.
 
I agree with you here

We still haven't shown that the average pro fighter makes any more in boxing than in MMA. The top end is higher but from what littel data I have been able to find. the average is probably on par


Here you show a shocking lack of understanding of striking in MMA. Striking in MMA is different than in boxing. Not as different as say boxing and point karate but different. The stance is different, the situations are different and the ranges are different. Superman punches have a place in MMA but are useless in boxing due to the lack of the kick threat, etc. Dirty boxing isn't bad boxing. It is a very specific strategy which involves hitting in the clinch, rabbit punching and using a lot of the inside strategies that are not allowed in boxing.

With all that said, a jab is a jab, a cross is a cross and a hook is a hook. It is how it is used that are different not the techniques themselves. Chris leben doesn't swing wildly because he is an MMA fighter and has to punch differently, he is just a wild swinger. Boxing has perfected the punch because they are a alive combat sport where punching is the only weapon. It is only natural that boxing would be the most advanced in that area, just as wrestling and judo are the expert takedown systems. The MMA fighter has to take the tools from the specialized systems and adapt them to generalized system.

Let me draw an analogy. The best pistol shooters in the world are IPSC shooters because they do nothing but shoot pistols all day, every day. For a soldier pistol shooting is a secondary skill. With few exceptions, soldiers will not be able to shoot at the level of an IPSC grandmaster. He has to spend time with a rifle, GMPG, M72, Grenades, tactics, and a hundred other skills. That doesn't mean that he should rely on old west style one handed shooting. He can still mechanics used by the IPSC shooters to improve his shooting. Maybe he won't be able to knock down 5 lateral plates in a second and a half, on the run. But he can definately shoot better than if he shot from the hip.

The MMA fighter is much the same. With very few exceptions, a MMA fighter will not be able to throw 7 punch combos while slipping counters. He can't spend the time getting to that level. But he can use a basic 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo to greater effect than if he just wings his punches. The best fighters now are doing that. GSP trains with the Grant brothers, has trained with Freddie roach and sparred with Lucien Bute, for example. The guys at ATT have Howard Davies (US Gold Medalist) teaching them. The game is changing. People realize how important proper boxing fundementals are to MMA. The next generation will have better boxing.

I have posted this before but this 16 year old kid at my gym has just been signed by the MFC (to fight when he turns 18). This kind of striking is the future on MMA.

Alexi Mayweather on Vimeo


Basically what you said is that MMA fighters aren't good boxers so that's why they look weird throwing punches.

I don't quite understand the video. He's hitting the mitts. Then 23 seconds into the video it looks like he edited something out.
 
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Basically what you said is that MMA fighters aren't good boxers so that's why they look weird throwing punches.

I don't quite understand the video. He's hitting the mitts. Then 23 seconds into the video it looks like he edited something out.

What I basically said was that MMA is a young sport and the guys that are on the top of the food chain right now didn't need top shelf boxing when they started. As kid McCoy posted boxing is
 
Sotiropoulos vs Kurt was the saving grace of a slopfest of a card.

It was nice to see some proper basic Boxing used for a change instead of guys swinging for the fences.

Whom does Sotiropoulos train with, you know?
 
I was really impressed with the Boxing that George picked up.

Although UFC 116 was pretty entertaining most fights had sloppy striking.
The fact that Carwin dropped the Champ with a rudimentary,telegraphed uppercut says everything about the Level of Boxing displayed
Bonnar showed some good Muay Thai.
 
What I basically said was that MMA is a young sport and the guys that are on the top of the food chain right now didn't need top shelf boxing when they started. As kid McCoy posted boxing is “The easiest to learn and the most difficult to perfect” . Early in their careers wrestling and BJJ were more important so they didn't spend they time learning how to box properly.

Now that everyones game is getting more and more balanced, striking has come back to the forefront. As they say, every fight starts on the feet. You are seeing guys recognize the need for crisp boxing. However, MMA boxing will never look exactly the same as regular boxing. The tools maybe the same but they will be used differently.

The point of the video is that he is a kid who has been at an MMA gym since he was a young teenager. He is doing complex pad work (it is money's pad routine if you didn't recognize it) and he still has two years to develop before he will even fight. Kids like that are the future of MMA striking. Kids that have trained boxing, wrestling, and BJJ since before their voice broke instead of guys who started in one area and tried to fill in the holes in their 20's.

I want to make something clear; I did not attack MMA, or Mixed martial artist. I was just trying to interpret your gun analogy.

Which basically said their not good boxers because they are jack of all trades master at none.

And I do not agree with you when you said a jab is a jab, and a hook is a hook. You make it seem like all jabs are equally good, and effective; it makes it seem like all jabs are the same, and it makes it seem like it requires no skill to throw a good jab in a fight. I do agree that people can make the jab their own by changing somethings up, but ultimately when a jab, or hook is bad it's not because they make it their own to accommodate their sport, it's just bad. (I'm not necessarily talking about MMA, I'm also talking about boxing.)
 
I want to make something clear; I did not attack MMA, or Mixed martial artist. I was just trying to interpret your gun analogy.

Which basically said their not good boxers because they are jack of all trades master at none.

And I do not agree with you when you said a jab is a jab, and a hook is a hook. You make it seem like all jabs are equally good, and effective; it makes it seem like all jabs are the same, and it makes it seem like it requires no skill to throw a good jab in a fight. I do agree that people can make the jab their own by changing somethings up, but ultimately when a jab, or hook is bad it's not because they make it their own to accommodate their sport, it's just bad. (I'm not necessarily talking about MMA, I'm also talking about boxing.)

I can see where you are coming from now. Mma fighters will never develop their hands to the same level of boxers because they have to spend their time on other things as well. Also the manner in which they use those skills will be different because the environment is different.
Maybe I should have said a good jab is a good jab. The mechanics of a jab don't change although the usage may.
 
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MMA's roots (Search up Pankration) are nearly as old as boxing. Boxing has been in the American culture for longer though.

I like boxing but it just doesn't work that well in MMA. Everything about a boxer's stance is wrong for MMA. They put too much emphasis on that lead leg and that leaves them -begging- to be single legged.

If boxing in MMA was a world ender we'd be seeing people signing up for boxing lessons instead of wrestling and BJJ.

That said, I think boxing has its place in MMA but.. they've been BJJ and Wrestling "purists" that've been champs in MMA - the same cannot be said for any kind of striker.

Then why call it MMA if they just need BJJ, or Wrestling training?

I think you should withhold judgment until you see a good boxer with a good BJJ, or a good wrestling background.

Instead of judging bad boxers with wrestling backgrounds.

EDIT: A great mixed martial artist would be well rounded in every aspect including striking.
EDIT: Also weight distribution has very little to do with bad striking (EDIT: Yes, I'm aware that weight distribution in general is important)
 
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MMA's roots (Search up Pankration) are nearly as old as boxing. Boxing has been in the American culture for longer though.

I like boxing but it just doesn't work that well in MMA. Everything about a boxer's stance is wrong for MMA. They put too much emphasis on that lead leg and that leaves them -begging- to be single legged.

If boxing in MMA was a world ender we'd be seeing people signing up for boxing lessons instead of wrestling and BJJ.

That said, I think boxing has its place in MMA but.. they've been BJJ and Wrestling "purists" that've been champs in MMA - the same cannot be said for any kind of striker.

Mo Smith was one of the first striking purists to hold the UFC title. Cro Cop was also the Pride Grand Prix open weight champ.

Agree with you on the lead leg thing.
 
Mo Smith was one of the first striking purists to hold the UFC title. Cro Cop was also the Pride Grand Prix open weight champ.

Mo was a striker, through and through no doubt, but at what point does one lose the 'purist' moniker? Mo trained with a great number of grapplers, and was victorious over Coleman because he adapted his game with fundamental grappling. If a striker learns how to grapple, and uses that knowledge to strike, is he a pure striker?

As soon as a great boxer WITH good wrestling and BJJ enters MMA, he will no longer be a 'boxer' but a mixed fighter. A 'pure' boxer would only be able to use techniques from his chosen discipline.
 
Here you show a shocking lack of understanding of striking in MMA. Striking in MMA is different than in boxing. Not as different as say boxing and point karate but different. The stance is different, the situations are different and the ranges are different. Superman punches have a place in MMA but are useless in boxing due to the lack of the kick threat, etc. Dirty boxing isn't bad boxing. It is a very specific strategy which involves hitting in the clinch, rabbit punching and using a lot of the inside strategies that are not allowed in boxing.

With all that said, a jab is a jab, a cross is a cross and a hook is a hook. It is how it is used that are different not the techniques themselves. Chris leben doesn't swing wildly because he is an MMA fighter and has to punch differently, he is just a wild swinger. Boxing has perfected the punch because they are a alive combat sport where punching is the only weapon. It is only natural that boxing would be the most advanced in that area, just as wrestling and judo are the expert takedown systems. The MMA fighter has to take the tools from the specialized systems and adapt them to generalized system.

Let me draw an analogy. The best pistol shooters in the world are IPSC shooters because they do nothing but shoot pistols all day, every day. For a soldier pistol shooting is a secondary skill. With few exceptions, soldiers will not be able to shoot at the level of an IPSC grandmaster. He has to spend time with a rifle, GMPG, M72, Grenades, tactics, and a hundred other skills. That doesn't mean that he should rely on old west style one handed shooting. He can still mechanics used by the IPSC shooters to improve his shooting. Maybe he won't be able to knock down 5 lateral plates in a second and a half, on the run. But he can definately shoot better than if he shot from the hip.

The MMA fighter is much the same. With very few exceptions, a MMA fighter will not be able to throw 7 punch combos while slipping counters. He can't spend the time getting to that level. But he can use a basic 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo to greater effect than if he just wings his punches. The best fighters now are doing that. GSP trains with the Grant brothers, has trained with Freddie roach and sparred with Lucien Bute, for example. The guys at ATT have Howard Davies (US Gold Medalist) teaching them. The game is changing. People realize how important proper boxing fundementals are to MMA. The next generation will have better boxing.

I have posted this before but this 16 year old kid at my gym has just been signed by the MFC (to fight when he turns 18). This kind of striking is the future on MMA.

Alexi Mayweather on Vimeo




That
 
Sotiropoulos showed good boxing for MMA.....atleast better than 90% of the street brawlers you normally see. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting he's a future IBF titleholder but I have to admit, seeing him utilize boxing was breadth of fresh air.
 
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