"Street" / "Self Defense"

[pinprophet]

Being judo throwed or slammed on the concrete is going to hurt like a mofo plain and simple. It hurts enough on the mat. Second just because your style (read predominate style) is judo or wrestling, doesn't mean you are locked to that style and can't throw a punch once you've got the guy on the ground, judo and wrestling are both good for creating this opportunity. I want to see what bjj is like before I comment on it, so I'm joining a school for that soon.

Also, throat shots are really effective but banned in MMA, I was in a typical stupid HS fight and had some good control with my wrestling and then I throat chopped the guy and he was gasping for dear life, that was some karate shit, but yikes.

Basically the any training is better then no training makes sense, as I kind of think that 90% of a fight isn't movements, patterns, whatever, it is spacing, timing, fluidity, drive, balance.

 

[jjmuaythaiguy]

When it comes to self defense in general, good rules to follow are:
1. Solve the conflict verbally.
2. If that doesn't work, walk away.
3. If that doesn't work, run away.
4. If that doesn't work, fight until you can run away.

I agree with this.

In Hawaii we are also allowed to carry OC or pepper spray so after you have exhausted all of the above, ie, verbal, walk away, cross streets to get away, called the police or bouncers and still walking away, when they attack, I like to use the new defense called "spray and pray".

Make sure you are down wind and spray the attacker. Its much like lay and pray except that OC spray works a lot of the time and against people with a knife or other sharp object I rather spray and pray it works than grab their attacking hand. People who have been sprayed or even got a small molecule in one of the membranes know that it works.

I used to work and study at the police academy and accidently got sprayed indirectly and I was coughing uncontrollably. I also got sprayed at the Superbrawl fight in which Anthony Torres got mobbed by the father of the losing fighter. I was seven or eight rows away but that mist hit me and everyone else and I was having the same effects again.

Using verbal techniques, walking away, crossing the street and notifying the police or staff at an event looks very good in a court of law.

Prosecutor: "So Mr. jjmuaythaiguy, you bumped into Mr. Jones by accident, apologized to him and he wanted to fight you?"

Me: "yes."

Prosecutor: "So what did he say?"

Me. "I told him, sorry. He said, f*#k you. I'm going to kick your ass."

Proescutor: "What actions is any did you do?"

Me. "I apologized again and walked backwards away from him to notify the doorman that he threatened me and could possibly start a fight."

Prosecutor: "What happened after you notified the doorman?"

Me: "Mr. J started ran after me and followed me into the street. I told him again that I did not want any trouble and went across the street to get away from him."

Prosecutor: "What happened next?"

Me: "I told him again that I did not want trouble and crossed the street again trying to get distance between me and Mr. Jones. I began yelling someone call the police because this guy was threatening to kill me."

Prosecutor: "What happened next?"

Me: "Mr. Jones and a few of his friends starting running after me again so I crossed the street and tried to stay in view of the bouncers of the club asking them for help and to call the police. Mr. Jones then took half of his friends, blocked my escape and took out a knife."

Prosecutor: "How many people would you say were with Mr. Jones and describe the knife."

Me: "Mr. Jones had about 3 or 4 people with him and it looked like a hunting knife he was threatening to kill me with."

Prosecutor: " So what did you do then?"

Me: "I reached into my bag and sprayed all four of them with OC spray because I felt my life was in danger at that time and finally the police showed up."

Prosecutor: "Thank you Mr. jjmuaythaiguy, no further questions."

Looks good, no?

 

[devante]

streetfights are the most physical and unpredictable thing in the world, no matter if it is bare knuckle or mma; there is not a competition in the world that prepares u for a streetfight except streetfighting.

now if u are a pro or nationally ranked fighter or just someone who trains religiously and dynamically then you can be beaten just like an untrained person, most people don't train religiously and most people don't train w/the focus being physical confrontations. People figure they are better able to defend themselves; but that does not mean they take the art for those reasons.

Alot of people can fight, but alot of people trained or untrained can't fight back; meaning as long as they can hit someone 1st or take them down or whatever, then they are fine. The minute things don't follow their gameplan they are screwed, i have seen it happen to bjj guys, judoka, kenpo, wrestlers, etc. Maybe they missed a throw and had a guy land on top of them, or maybe the floor was slick and their shoot was sloppy and they missed or maybe they could not tie up their opp enough; either way they ended up having a wrench thrown in their initial plan and ended up in a disadvantageous position and ended up getting handled by an untrained opp. Anyone is tough when they are choking..punching or slamming someone, the question is how tough are u when u get rocked or u exhaust urself trying to bring down some wild strong aggressive guy. Examples of this would be royce v kimo or tank v duarte: i have actually seen fights that followed this pattern, a guy misses an armbar and gets pounded or grappler can't pull down or keep down some big wild athletic brawler and wins but gets beaten from pillar to post doing it.


many people who grapple don't want to really FIGHT, plain and simple; what drew soo many people to grappling..bjj was the idea they could beat a guy 25 lbs heavier in 30 seconds, or u can beat a boxer w/out getting hit, or a blkbelt in under a minute. Seeing people tap big guys w/out getting hurt or breaking a sweat pulled people in; in boxing u know u are gonna get hit, same as in muay thai, kickboxing and even if u know those arts u can get caught or hurt. People think cus i grapple other people don't know how to and i can win easy...they are not prepared to get hit...to not get the takedown immediately..to not be able to control their opp or to have him throw or slam them. tHEY ARE PREPARED TO HURT SOMEONE BUT NOT PREPARED TO GET HURT; i have seen alot of grappler types get rocked..koed or just freeze when they get hit, all of a sudden their shoots suck..their clinch is garbage and their guard is worthless. I have noticed untrained people or people trainied in boxing/etc, they expect to get hit hurt or lose; grapplers don't and the minute they have to fight back, they don't they fold.

Winning a streetfight or any fight isn't just skill it's toughness it's heart...it's not pounding the hell out of someone...it's being able to take a pounding an come back; an that is not just a physical pounding it's the emotional and mental one u take before and during a fight.


there are no rules..using weapons of any kind are all fair and right, people jumping in is par for the course...biting gouging fishhooking are all a part of the game. There is no sucker punch unless someone just hits u for no reason, the minute u talk shit or tell someone to back off or whatever u have initiated violence and need to be prepared for it for as long as u are in the immediate area. Anyone who has been around any sort of violence knows that, don't think cus people step in or cus u were just trying to standup for someone or because ur calm and it did not happen right away does not mean it won't happen 10min from now 15min from now or an hr from now. As long as u are in that area it can happen at any time... If u are not prepared to stay on ur toes for that long, then u better be prepared to get hit upside ur head and stomped out. I have seen it...and been involved, someone has an issue w/ me; i think it's over, 15min later i am in a fight cus the same dude i thought i resolved the issue w/decided he wants to end it.

If u are not prepared to be bitten...gouged...break ur hand..get knocked out...get stabbed or shot or jumped or hit w/some object...don't fight all that ish can happen.

if u are not prepared to lose don't fight

if u are not prepared to seriously injure or possibly kill...do not fight...

any fight in any uncontrolled environment has all the aforementioned possibilities, especially when dealing w/untrained...and in some cases homicidal people.... If any of these things seem to hard or risky or tough for u...stay away from fights.

i am trained..seen alot of fights, been in a couple w/trained and untrained people; i won and lost some, so i understand how bad things can get at any point in a fight. That 1st hand knowledge/exp keeps me from randoming fighting anyone regardless of how it might make me look, cus i know what can happen and i ain't doing it unless i am faced w/almost no other choice but to risk the aforementioned things.

wht do u think

 

[kboxer]

Awesome posy Devante

 

[DMcKayBJJ]

This is a good thread with some good comments, so I'll thrown in mine.
I believe that your brain is the most powerful weapon you can ever use.
So I use it to avoid situations that could become dangerous to me and my loved ones.
IF I ever were to end up in such a situation, where imminent harm was about to fall upon me or my loved ones, I would do anything (beg, plead, negotiate, bribe, run, bite, scream, etc.) just to survive as long as necessary and remove myself and loved ones from the situation as painlessly as possible. I train, but I have much more confidence in my communication skills, survival instincts, and even my running skills than I do in my fighting skills. I'm just an average grappler and I do it for fun. I'm not a professional bouncer or law enforcement officer.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a pushover. I agree with everyone who said that a "streetfight" basically means that anything is fair game in your attempts to hurt your opponent, if you really have to. But it is my belief that the greatest pain you can inflict on a man is NOT the pain you can cause by hurting the man physically, but the pain that he feels when you hurt the people that he cares about.

So I would go home, make sure my loved ones were safe, and be thankful that we survived the encounter and will live to see another day.

Then, if necessary, I would go out quietly and continue the fight by hunting down the guy's wife/girlfriend/mom/dad/brothers/sisters/grandparents/cousins/kids/pets/friends/etc. and hurt THEM in all sorts of twisted and maniacal ways. Believe me...he'd be feeling THAT pain for much longer than any physical pain I could ever inflict on HIM.

Anything goes, right?

 

[triso]

Don't be a pussy.

 

[kboxer]

I avoid streetfights altogether. I started training at 17 and put that to rest. Smartest thing I ever did. At 6-2 , 250 I would talk a situation out and almost every time. It is almost always a misunderstanding. Notice I stress the word ALMOST. Good posts by everybody.

 

[Eric O]

I avoid streetfights altogether. I started training at 17 and put that to rest. Smartest thing I ever did. At 6-2 , 250 I would talk a situation out and almost every time. It is almost always a misunderstanding. Notice I stress the word ALMOST. Good posts by everybody.

At 6'2" and 250lbs I'd bet that most ppl would be hesitant to fight you anyhow.

Whenever I've gotten into a street fight there wasn't really any taking involved. Just fighting.

 

[Coach Couzo]

For some time now, I've studied criminals and self-defense. I do not equate self-defense to street fighting. The main difference between the two: self-defense usually implies no foreknowledge of the attack, whereas street fighting does. This is not to say that there are no surprises in street fights. My point is that two people who fight on the street know beforehand that they are about to rumble. (Whether you notice his 2 other friends

 

[triso]

I agree. Street Fighting and Self Defense are 2 different animals.

When I started this thread I was really referring to Street Fighting, and all the ridiculous shit I hear about it on these forums.

I was not talking about some raving lunatic trying to stab you, or getting mugged. I hope everyone knew that.

 

[Coach Couzo]

I agree. Street Fighting and Self Defense are 2 different animals.

When I started this thread I was really referring to Street Fighting, and all the ridiculous shit I hear about it on these forums.

I was not talking about some raving lunatic trying to stab you, or getting mugged. I hope everyone knew that.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Rico11643]

Im glad I take Hapdikokaraninjajudoru. I can beat 100+ opponents at once.

 

[DMcKayBJJ]

For some time now, I've studied criminals and self-defense. I do not equate self-defense to street fighting. The main difference between the two: self-defense usually implies no foreknowledge of the attack, whereas street fighting does. This is not to say that there are no surprises in street fights. My point is that two people who fight on the street know beforehand that they are about to rumble. (Whether you notice his 2 other friends

 

[HeyHEys]

run when they are a lot / they have a knife ... even if you are fedor (ok bad example)

 

[TapDammit]

Glad someone said it! and said it very well! good post

 

[S. Carter]

Eric O. speaks the truth people.

Stop talking about "dirty" fighting. Everyone knows about the famed eye gouges, the grabbing of balls (the ghey), and biting bullshit, you really believe that is going to END a fight, or stop me from wrecking you while you are doing it?

Oh yeah, like I said, if you are in a fight, expect damage period. If your hoping that you dont scratch your knees and back on the pavement, you have no business fighting.

i've ended a fight by grabbing the balls... then twisting them... then pulling them away from the body. he didn't want any more after that. yeah he called me all kind of 's' and 'pussies'. but, fuck that! he was bigger and stronger and he was on top of me (in my guard) about to beat the living shit out of me. i had no other choice. i walked away unscathed and he went to the hospital with ruptured testicles. fuck 'em.

i've been bitten and eye-gouged before. that didn't really do shit. but, attacks on the testicles is a good option if you are about to get your ass handed to you.

 

[Tazz]

I dont think a BJJer would go in the guard position once on the ground, an experienced BJJer would go for offensive techniques. Anyway, you shouldnt take BJJ as a primary art, a striking art should be your primary art, you should leave BJJ or any other grappling art as the art to use once on the ground. People should understand this. Not everyones as skilled and Royce or Rickson to just take the guy down and kick his ass, no one should do that anyway. Something like Muay Thai or kickboxing should be your primary art to use in a street defence situation, once on the ground though, or when you feel its NECCESARY to take the guy to the ground, use BJJ.Thats the reason people learn BJJ, to balance off their fighting by gaining better effectiveness on the ground.I should also remind you how the ol' street fight goes:
kung fu guy: "You gonna get your ass wooped, muther fu****!"
opponent: "Try me."
*opponent stays in guard for a while*
*opponent suddenly goes retardish and starts sending thousands of strikes to the guys face .*
*kung fu guy tries to evade, but too many punches coming TOO fast.*
*opponent keeps throwing fast punches with his face turned so that he doesnt get hit*
*kung fu guy falls*.
Now thats something we dont see in the UFC...
Not that im saying kung fu is not effective, but you can add ANY martial art in replacement with "kung fu guy", and get the same thing. People are usually throwing hundreds of punches at you, trying to hit you.
S. Carter, thats another reason the guard position can come useful in a fight; grab the balls like they're jessica albas tits, SQUEEZE and pull. Hmm.. Im actually gonna take my next fight to the ground, get in the guard and try it.

 

[Gsoares2***]

I dont think a BJJer would go in the guard position once on the ground, an experienced BJJer would go for offensive techniques. Anyway, you shouldnt take BJJ as a primary art, a striking art should be your primary art, you should leave BJJ or any other grappling art as the art to use once on the ground. People should understand this. Not everyones as skilled and Royce or Rickson to just take the guy down and kick his ass, no one should do that anyway. Something like Muay Thai or kickboxing should be your primary art to use in a street defence situation, once on the ground though, or when you feel its NECCESARY to take the guy to the ground, use BJJ.Thats the reason people learn BJJ, to balance off their fighting by gaining better effectiveness on the ground.I should also remind you how the ol' street fight goes:
kung fu guy: "You gonna get your ass wooped, muther fu****!"
opponent: "Try me."
*opponent stays in guard for a while*
*opponent suddenly goes retardish and starts sending thousands of strikes to the guys face .*
*kung fu guy tries to evade, but too many punches coming TOO fast.*
*opponent keeps throwing fast punches with his face turned so that he doesnt get hit*
*kung fu guy falls*.
Now thats something we dont see in the UFC...
Not that im saying kung fu is not effective, but you can add ANY martial art in replacement with "kung fu guy", and get the same thing. People are usually throwing hundreds of punches at you, trying to hit you.
S. Carter, thats another reason the guard position can come useful in a fight; grab the balls like they're jessica albas tits, SQUEEZE and pull. Hmm.. Im actually gonna take my next fight to the ground, get in the guard and try it.

All this time i thought i was taking bjj cause i liked it... Now i know its because i had a pre determined faith set forth by you.

 

[S. Carter]

I dont think a BJJer would go in the guard position once on the ground, an experienced BJJer would go for offensive techniques. Anyway, you shouldnt take BJJ as a primary art, a striking art should be your primary art, you should leave BJJ or any other grappling art as the art to use once on the ground. People should understand this. Not everyones as skilled and Royce or Rickson to just take the guy down and kick his ass, no one should do that anyway. Something like Muay Thai or kickboxing should be your primary art to use in a street defence situation, once on the ground though, or when you feel its NECCESARY to take the guy to the ground, use BJJ.Thats the reason people learn BJJ, to balance off their fighting by gaining better effectiveness on the ground.I should also remind you how the ol' street fight goes:
kung fu guy: "You gonna get your ass wooped, muther fu****!"
opponent: "Try me."
*opponent stays in guard for a while*
*opponent suddenly goes retardish and starts sending thousands of strikes to the guys face .*
*kung fu guy tries to evade, but too many punches coming TOO fast.*
*opponent keeps throwing fast punches with his face turned so that he doesnt get hit*
*kung fu guy falls*.
Now thats something we dont see in the UFC...
Not that im saying kung fu is not effective, but you can add ANY martial art in replacement with "kung fu guy", and get the same thing. People are usually throwing hundreds of punches at you, trying to hit you.
S. Carter, thats another reason the guard position can come useful in a fight; grab the balls like they're jessica albas tits, SQUEEZE and pull. Hmm.. Im actually gonna take my next fight to the ground, get in the guard and try it.

beleive me. it wasn't my choice to go to the ground. he did a did a textbook double-leg to me after i cracked him on his dome twice with all my might. he was big, strong, and very angry. if i hadn't acheived guard i would've been dead.

for a second i thought about a submission set up. but, when i looked up and saw his fist cocked back while he was holding my wrist, bjj training went out the window and self-defense mode kicked in. (we were on carpet, btw)

 

[S. Carter]

streetfights are the most physical and unpredictable thing in the world, no matter if it is bare knuckle or mma; there is not a competition in the world that prepares u for a streetfight except streetfighting.

now if u are a pro or nationally ranked fighter or just someone who trains religiously and dynamically then you can be beaten just like an untrained person, most people don't train religiously and most people don't train w/the focus being physical confrontations. People figure they are better able to defend themselves; but that does not mean they take the art for those reasons.

Alot of people can fight, but alot of people trained or untrained can't fight back; meaning as long as they can hit someone 1st or take them down or whatever, then they are fine. The minute things don't follow their gameplan they are screwed, i have seen it happen to bjj guys, judoka, kenpo, wrestlers, etc. Maybe they missed a throw and had a guy land on top of them, or maybe the floor was slick and their shoot was sloppy and they missed or maybe they could not tie up their opp enough; either way they ended up having a wrench thrown in their initial plan and ended up in a disadvantageous position and ended up getting handled by an untrained opp. Anyone is tough when they are choking..punching or slamming someone, the question is how tough are u when u get rocked or u exhaust urself trying to bring down some wild strong aggressive guy. Examples of this would be royce v kimo or tank v duarte: i have actually seen fights that followed this pattern, a guy misses an armbar and gets pounded or grappler can't pull down or keep down some big wild athletic brawler and wins but gets beaten from pillar to post doing it.


many people who grapple don't want to really FIGHT, plain and simple; what drew soo many people to grappling..bjj was the idea they could beat a guy 25 lbs heavier in 30 seconds, or u can beat a boxer w/out getting hit, or a blkbelt in under a minute. Seeing people tap big guys w/out getting hurt or breaking a sweat pulled people in; in boxing u know u are gonna get hit, same as in muay thai, kickboxing and even if u know those arts u can get caught or hurt. People think cus i grapple other people don't know how to and i can win easy...they are not prepared to get hit...to not get the takedown immediately..to not be able to control their opp or to have him throw or slam them. tHEY ARE PREPARED TO HURT SOMEONE BUT NOT PREPARED TO GET HURT; i have seen alot of grappler types get rocked..koed or just freeze when they get hit, all of a sudden their shoots suck..their clinch is garbage and their guard is worthless. I have noticed untrained people or people trainied in boxing/etc, they expect to get hit hurt or lose; grapplers don't and the minute they have to fight back, they don't they fold.

Winning a streetfight or any fight isn't just skill it's toughness it's heart...it's not pounding the hell out of someone...it's being able to take a pounding an come back; an that is not just a physical pounding it's the emotional and mental one u take before and during a fight.


there are no rules..using weapons of any kind are all fair and right, people jumping in is par for the course...biting gouging fishhooking are all a part of the game. There is no sucker punch unless someone just hits u for no reason, the minute u talk shit or tell someone to back off or whatever u have initiated violence and need to be prepared for it for as long as u are in the immediate area. Anyone who has been around any sort of violence knows that, don't think cus people step in or cus u were just trying to standup for someone or because ur calm and it did not happen right away does not mean it won't happen 10min from now 15min from now or an hr from now. As long as u are in that area it can happen at any time... If u are not prepared to stay on ur toes for that long, then u better be prepared to get hit upside ur head and stomped out. I have seen it...and been involved, someone has an issue w/ me; i think it's over, 15min later i am in a fight cus the same dude i thought i resolved the issue w/decided he wants to end it.

If u are not prepared to be bitten...gouged...break ur hand..get knocked out...get stabbed or shot or jumped or hit w/some object...don't fight all that ish can happen.

if u are not prepared to lose don't fight

if u are not prepared to seriously injure or possibly kill...do not fight...

any fight in any uncontrolled environment has all the aforementioned possibilities, especially when dealing w/untrained...and in some cases homicidal people.... If any of these things seem to hard or risky or tough for u...stay away from fights.

i am trained..seen alot of fights, been in a couple w/trained and untrained people; i won and lost some, so i understand how bad things can get at any point in a fight. That 1st hand knowledge/exp keeps me from randoming fighting anyone regardless of how it might make me look, cus i know what can happen and i ain't doing it unless i am faced w/almost no other choice but to risk the aforementioned things.

wht do u think

awesome post

you speak the truth