Story of Jesus Christ was 'fabricated to pacify the poor', claims Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill

[lfd0311]

You know other people can read your posts right? You've got about half a dozen of us mocking you for your examples of "historians." Are we all just reading your one paragraph too fast?

Bro, you can read my posts in a public forum?!?! That's like... so edgy.... Do you know when the New Testament started being compiled?

 

[Fawlty]

Here is every post you have made in this thread, in chronological order:

Spoiler

LOL, people like this are just sad.

Oh jeez. Joseph Atwill isn't a "Bible Scholar" he's an atheist who hates christianity and wrote some books about it. He then sold those books to other atheists who specifically hate christianity. This isn't new, and reading his work doesn't make you a deep thinker.

Go on. Which part is the "made up part"? P.S., I'm agnostic, so if your reply is going to be some weak "LOL, CHRISTIANS" nonsense, please don't waste my time.

Do you believe Mohammed was a real person?

I am. Do you believe Mohammed was a real person?

That isn't really an answer. I just asked if you thought he was a real man.

It's not a hard question. Do you believe Mohammed was a real person. I didn't asked if you believed any of his religious teachings. Because all the things you said about Jesus can be said about him too. I'm guessing you knew that and realized how you'd boxed yourself in, that's why you were so cagey with your reply.

I mean.... You also wrote all of this....

I just did make my point. Again. For the second time. You can make all of arguements that you made about Jesus (that you managed to leave out of your revision of your position) about Mohammed. That's why I asked if you believed he was a real person. Because there are so many people who claim to not be religious who really just hate Christians and use the "Religion is dumb" argument as a cover to spout their hate.

No, I asked you a question, you sort of answered it. I also just told you why I asked you the questions I asked you. Your response to that is "You're a moron".

Which part? Was he not even a real person?

The historians whose writings came to make up the New Testament. They are the oral traditions passed down through th Apostles. It is a well documented fact that Pontius Pilate's diary containing his writings about his time in Judah and his interactions with the man who came to be know as Jesus survived more or less in it's original form into the Early Middle Ages when it was taken by monks to a monastery where the current canonical story of Jesus was created, and the actual history of the real man and Pontius Pilate destroyed. All that means is there had to be a real man at the core of that to begin with.

You mean all those Priests who've been thrown in freaking prison and the number of movies made about that exact subject? Some of you people have your blinders so firmly on it's embarrassing.

Psst.... We're talking about the same thing.... You just have a vested personal interest in this discussion, and I don't. That's the difference.

maybe go back and read what i wrote then, and leave your preconcieved notions and your obvious bias outside of this thread.

Ok. You don't get to say "nuh uh".

You think that's still going on after the massive scandal that happened? Listen to yourself dude. You're an angry hater, like most people in these threads. All you have to offer is hatred.

...... You can't.... It was destroyed. You'd have known that if you'd read my post.

@ShadBo listen to how angry you are. I'm literally just saying that there was a person at the center of the mythology of Jesus, and you're having a tizzy. That's how much of a hater you are.

They destroyed the originals. You know, the ones that didn't featured a bunch of stuff about him being called Jesus and things like that? And I apologize, it's not his diary, It's the letters of Pontius Pilate.



Again, that's all accepted mythology, You're trying to argue something I'm not arguing. These are the preconcieved notions I was talking about. So stop arguing against points I'm not making because you hate christianity and need me to make those arguments.






LOL. This is your idea of "getting reckt"? create awful, tired strawman arguments to fit your anti Christian narrative, which I called almost immediately BTW.



Not really. You sort of danced around it. And this is a hallmark of dishonest, awful posters. whenever you can't make a point or someone doesn't just accept your nonsense at face value that person is "dumb".

LOL. I do. Christianity isn't a child molester religion. Nice try though.




Not in modern practice, and definently not in Christianity as a commonly accepted practice for a long, long time.


I'll take your word for it. You seem to have a deep knowledge and infatuation with that particular subject.

Aaaaand.... Again, that's not even an opinion held by the majority of Christians, Republicans or people in Alabama. So nice try.

I'm saying those people are fringe weirdos and are seen as fringe weirdos by the vast majority of people who share their religion. I'm also saying you absolutely understood that and are misrepresenting what I said for your own benefit. I'm also saying your attempt failed terribly.

Nope. I'm sure not. Thanks for trying to refute that with a "nuh uh" because you don't like it.





That's literally what I've been saying the whole time. Again, you're having trouble understanding that because your obvious hatred of Christianity is clouding your view of what I'm saying. That's like the 5th or 6th time of said this.



I didn't have one. I asked you if you believed there was one, and you sort of gave me an answer, but not really. This is yet another topic that I've addressed about 4 times now, so stop playing games and making dishonest points.



Interesting.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Except that you then went on to post this:



This is literally the definition of a strawman. Nowhere in my post did I claim that Pilate's letters claimed that Jesus was anything that Christianity claimed him to be, nor did I say literally anything about Moses. Yet for some reason you attacked my point as if I was presenting Pilate's letters as if they proved Christian mythology verifiably true, despite the fact that I brought them up as proof that said mythology was... in fact.... just that. Mythology. That the real history, if any, had been destroyed/replaced long ago to fit the narrative early Christians needed, and they needed supporting documents to back it up. So they simply created them out of some that already existed with little regard for what was already there. Then you threw Moses in there for good measure. Something you brought up. To argue against a point I was not making. To point out how absurd you think Christianity is. An argument I was not making, attacking a position I was not defending. That's the definition of a strawman. That's you creating a narrative. Is that all cleared up now?




*Moron



Finally.



Dude, it's amazing how deeply narricisstic you are, combined with how laughably terrible your ability to grasp written information is. Let me slow things down for you. You have such a deep need to act intellectually superior to everyone it's kind of sad. Do you remember this series of posts?










I literally just said the same thing you did. But apparently I'm making things up though. Can you read? Is following along some sort of comprehensive burden for you?




I think by now if it's not obvious that you should be asking youself that question, than you might need serious help. P.S., this is what it looks like when someone gets "reckt" by basic points....

Thought so.

A biblical scholar..... would claim something that doesn't fit the narrative of Christianity? Think about that really hard, Sawlty.

Most “bible scholars” are, on top of being very religious, authorities on what is in the Bible, not on the non religious history of the making of the Bible.

... wow.....

Bro, this is just awful, dreadful line of reasoning. And it's flimsy at best.

Uh, no I don't have to explain anything to you, Sawlty. You and I have been down this road before on multiple subjects. It isn't my fawlt you aren't anywhere near as informed or intelligent as you think you are. It's not my fawlt that simple reading comprehension escapes your grasp. This game, as always, will feature me proving myself exactly right, you crying, flinging poo and then disapearing like you were never here to begin with. I'm not interested in playing your game, especially when what I just said escapes you, even after I've explained it about 9 times in this thread.

Uh, no I don't have to explain anything to you, Sawlty. You and I have been down this road before on multiple subjects. It isn't my fawlt you aren't anywhere near as informed or intelligent as you think you are. It's not my fawlt that simple reading comprehension escapes your grasp. This game, as always, will feature me proving myself exactly right, you crying, flinging poo and then disapearing like you were never here to begin with. I'm not interested in playing your game, especially when what I just said escapes you, even after I've explained it about 9 times in this thread.

I don't admire your arrogance.

1.) Learn to read, so you can understand what I said.

2.) Do yourself a favor and re-evaluate your "No bible scholars that I know of" claim, combine it with #1, then actually look into the secular history of Christianity. Then get back to me.

You've got to ask Fawlty

I did. You seem to believe that not only are you an expert on the bible, but you're also an expert on literally everyone in the world in the field of Biblical Scholarship, not to mention archeological study in the area. Given your own obvious self assumed credentials in this matter, it should be easy for you to both tell me what I'm talking about, and explain my position for me. I wait in great anticipation.

Mate..... You once again can't read, and have somehow foisted your own lack of ability and education onto me. That is a massively reoccuring theme in this thread. Go back and read what the f**k I wrote. Jesus.

Read.... slooweerrr...

I read all of them. At no point do you provide evidence to support your claim that:

"It is a well documented fact that Pontius Pilate's diary containing his writings about his time in Judah and his interactions with the man who came to be know as Jesus survived more or less in it's original form into the Early Middle Ages when it was taken by monks to a monastery where the current canonical story of Jesus was created, and the actual history of the real man and Pontius Pilate destroyed."


Please provide evidence to support this claim.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

This is fascinating. I have no earthly idea what the hell he is talking about with the monk and crap.

As far as letters by Pilate, there is a fiction novel written in the 1920s, and probably at least one early forgery. No reputable biblical scholar claims them as genuine as far as I know. This is way, way out in fringe territory.

Just a guess, but there's a late 1st/early 2nd century document that mention something Pilate wrote, but no modern scholars have ever seen the Pilate letter.

 

[lfd0311]

How is it an awful line of reasoning? The book that they consider to be the divine, infallible word of the universes creator supports banging underage women. It’s not exactly a stretch to see how this influences their attitudes towards the subject.

Except that... you know... they're modern people who have made that act illegal and throw priests in prison for doing it. Kind of a massive hole in your logic, huh?

 

[Fawlty]

Just a guess, but there's a late 1st/early 2nd century document that mention something Pilate wrote, but no modern scholars have ever seen the Pilate letter.

The claim he's making goes way further than that- you can see it in my post just above yours.

I've asked for him to provide some evidence of the six claims he makes in that paragraph, but he refuses to engage on the evidence, preferring to scream at me (which is fun, don't get me wrong, I just actually have a curiosity about this stuff and would rather see evidence).

 

[meauneau]

Just a guess, but there's a late 1st/early 2nd century document that mention something Pilate wrote, but no modern scholars have ever seen the Pilate letter.

That is not true accordion to @lfd0311. There is evidence, you just have to read his posts.

 

[Fawlty]

That is not true accordion to @lfd0311. There is evidence, you just have to read his posts.

I have no idea what he is talking about there. Google isn't helping either, and while I'm no expert I'm not unfamiliar with researching fringe claims.

 

[lfd0311]

Here is every post you have made in this thread, in chronological order:


I read all of them. At no point do you provide evidence to support your claim that:

"It is a well documented fact that Pontius Pilate's diary containing his writings about his time in Judah and his interactions with the man who came to be know as Jesus survived more or less in it's original form into the Early Middle Ages when it was taken by monks to a monastery where the current canonical story of Jesus was created, and the actual history of the real man and Pontius Pilate destroyed."


Please provide evidence to support this claim.

Bro, I don't need need to provide it, because, as has been established, you're the expert on this and every topic of discussion. You literally ARE my prove, so go ahead and provide my evidence, guy.

Just a guess, but there's a late 1st/early 2nd century document that mention something Pilate wrote, but no modern scholars have ever seen the Pilate letter.

Absolutely perfect. @Fawlty, you actually liked this post. This just made my day. This is actually what I have been saying the entire time. This is why I've been making fun of you the whole time. This is why I feel no need to justify myself to you. You just come in and assume the intellectual high ground with no basis whatsoever, and then blunder right into liking this post. It's so classic you, it's so priceless and it just made my day. You have, once again outed yourself as nothing more than a pretentious, self important know nothing. I love it. @PainIsLIfe, this is directed at you, it's directed at Fawlty.

 

[lfd0311]

That is not true accordion to @lfd0311. There is evidence, you just have to read his posts.

Another dumbass that can't read.

 

[Fawlty]

Bro, I don't need need to provide it, because, as has been established, you're the expert on this and every topic of discussion. You literally ARE my prove, so go ahead and provide my evidence, guy.



Absolutely perfect. @Fawlty, you actually liked this post. This just made my day. This is actually what I have been saying the entire time. This is why I've been making fun of you the whole time. This is why I feel no need to justify myself to you. You just come in and assume the intellectual high ground with no basis whatsoever, and then blunder right into liking this post. It's so classic you, it's so priceless and it just made my day. You have, once again outed yourself as nothing more than a pretentious, self important know nothing. I love it. @PainIsLIfe, this is directed at you, it's directed at Fawlty.

You made a claim that Pilate had diary entries about Jesus, that the diary survived for centuries, was taken to a monastery, and destroyed while the modern day story of Jesus was fabricated.

I quoted every post you have made in this thread. You give no evidence.

You have not supported this claim, at all. Please do.

 

[lfd0311]

I have no idea what he is talking about there. Google isn't helping either, and while I'm no expert I'm not unfamiliar with researching fringe claims.

Nope, you don't get to backtrack. You're an expert. you've alluded to that a couple of times in this thread. You're the end all, be all expert on this topic. No backing away now.

 

[lfd0311]

You made a claim that Pilate had diary entries about Jesus, that the diary survived for centuries, was taken to a monastery, and destroyed while the modern day story of Jesus was fabricated.

I quoted every post you have made in this thread. You give no evidence.

You have not supported this claim, at all. Please do.

Dance, monkey. Dance away from it.

 

[meauneau]

Another dumbass that can't read.

Exactly, if anyone would read your posts they would find the evidence.

 

[Fawlty]

Dance, monkey. Dance away from it.

You say that it is a "well documented fact" that Pilate:

1. Kept a diary
and
2. Described his interactions with Jesus

You claim that the diary:

1. Survived into the early Middle Ages
and
2. Was taken to a monastery

You claim that in this monastery:

1. The current canonical story of Jesus was created
and
2. The actual history of Pilate was destroyed


Please provide evidence for these claims.

 

[lfd0311]

Exactly, if anyone would read your posts they would find the evidence.

post it then

 

[lfd0311]

You say that it is a "well documented fact" that Pilate:

1. Kept a diary
and
2. Described his interactions with Jesus

You claim that the diary:

1. Survived into the early Middle Ages
and
2. Was taken to a monastery

You claim that in this monastery:

1. The current canonical story of Jesus was created
and
2. The actual history of Pilate was destroyed


Please provide evidence for these claims.

I also said that I was incorrect in calling it a "dairy". You keep dishonestly presenting my position, though. Keep dancing, smart guy. P.S., you just liked a post that, because you're an arrogant assbag, didn't even realize supported my position. you also seem to have forgotten that you earlier made reference to a book called "the Letters of Pontius Pilate". That's just a coincidence though. Keep dancing, dance man.

 

[Darkballs]

Bro, you can read my posts in a public forum?!?! That's like... so edgy.... Do you know when the New Testament started being compiled?

Compiled how? By an oral history being passed down?

Point to me any first hand source drafted within decades of christ's life and collected by an actual historian.

 

[Soul Rebel 2]

Except that... you know... they're modern people who have made that act illegal and throw priests in prison for doing it. Kind of a massive hole in your logic, huh?

So, let me ask you. Is the bible wrong?

 

[Fawlty]

I also said that I was incorrect in calling it a "dairy". You keep dishonestly presenting my position, though. Keep dancing, smart guy. P.S., you just liked a post that, because you're an arrogant assbag, didn't even realize supported my position. you also seem to have forgotten that you earlier made reference to a book called "the Letters of Pontius Pilate". That's just a coincidence though. Keep dancing, dance man.

Fine.


You say that it is a "well documented fact" that Pilate:

1. WROTE LETTERS
and
2. Described his interactions with Jesus

You claim that the LETTERS:

1. Survived into the early Middle Ages
and
2. Were taken to a monastery

You claim that in this monastery:

1. The current canonical story of Jesus was created
and
2. The actual history of Pilate was destroyed


Please provide evidence for these claims.

 

[meauneau]

post it then

You already did, wtf?