Story of Jesus Christ was 'fabricated to pacify the poor', claims Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill

Maybe. But it is significantly more than "slave morality." It is a form of thinking that, at the very least, presents an archetypal, psychologically valid interpretation of the world and how to make sense of human life within it.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

There are really only two options for the world:

1. Human psychology is meaningful. Therefore systems of mythology and mythic symbolism that speak deeply to the human condition are-- in at least that sense-- true.

2.Life is, at the end of the day, characterized by meaningless, stupid suffering.

I mean, it's kind of a no-brainier what choice is better (even from an evolutionary point of view. If nothing else, be a good, self-interested Darwinian organism).

And once again, have a little respect for MEANING. Show me all the beauty and goodness that nihilism has produced.
Beauty and goodness are meaningless in a nihilistic world. You enjoy it but ultimately it is all meaningless.

The better choice is up to the individual. Better is a functional term, what is better is up to what each person's preference, nature, needs, etc.

At times when I think about meaning I can't help but think it is an illusion, that there is no meaning in the world. We do not experience meaning, what we experience is the verbal/phonetic expressions coinciding with something in our brains, thoughts, which then produce a sense of understanding or meaningfulness. Language is just a means to externalise thought. We can think even if we had no language. I think it is the sensation of understanding and meaningfulness that keeps us going. Some can keep going even if they reject meaning. So it is up to everyone.
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-controversial-biblical-scholar-8870879.html


This is the identical set of conditions present today with Christians today.

"Outlining his ideas in a blog posting on his website Mr Atwill writes: "Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of mind control to produce slaves that believed God decreed their slavery.

Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history
"

This is utter bullshit. Why in the hell would the Roman government create a story to pacify the poor and then feed the people who believed it to Lions?

This article is designed to incite "poor people" and get some publicity. That is all.
 
Beauty and goodness are meaningless in a nihilistic world. You enjoy it but ultimately it is all meaningless.

The better choice is up to the individual. Better is a functional term, what is better is up to what each person's preference, nature, needs, etc.

At times when I think about meaning I can't help but think it is an illusion, that there is no meaning in the world. We do not experience meaning, what we experience is the verbal/phonetic expressions coinciding with something in our brains, thoughts, which then produce a sense of understanding or meaningfulness. Language is just a means to externalise thought. We can think even if we had no language. I think it is the sensation of understanding and meaningfulness that keeps us going. Some can keep going even if they reject meaning. So it is up to everyone.

the vast majority of humanity and especially human males is scared to admit that they are powerless and not have all answers and are likely wrong about what they believe is moral and immoral and how universe operates. Most men cannot even admit their own faults and insecurities and as soon as it comes to light there brain goes into defense mode with ´´´nope i am better and superior than xyz people and so and so and i have it all figured out i have higher purpose´´ it is funny because they may very well be better than other groups etc. But they often wont admit their own faults and imperfections often physical and instead resort to coping and mental gymnastics to make sense of the world and pacifiy their fears of unknown.
 
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Beauty and goodness are meaningless in a nihilistic world. You enjoy it but ultimately it is all meaningless.

The better choice is up to the individual. Better is a functional term, what is better is up to what each person's preference, nature, needs, etc.

At times when I think about meaning I can't help but think it is an illusion, that there is no meaning in the world. We do not experience meaning, what we experience is the verbal/phonetic expressions coinciding with something in our brains, thoughts, which then produce a sense of understanding or meaningfulness. Language is just a means to externalise thought. We can think even if we had no language. I think it is the sensation of understanding and meaningfulness that keeps us going. Some can keep going even if they reject meaning. So it is up to everyone.

I must say, it's hard for me to believe that English is your second language, you're Andalucian correct?
 
I was using that verse to dismiss the "translation" argument that poster was running to. I was pointing out one of many incongruencies in the Bible.

Are you familiar with Jesus' parable of Lazarus on the rich man?
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

I still don't see you're point; in Greek the word Hades is used. If you read the Aramaic text for the same verse it reads: 23"And suffering in Sheol, he lifted up his eyes from afar off and he saw Abraham, and Lazar in his bosom."

http://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/luke/16.htm

I mean you don't have to accept the Bible as the truth, but at least understand that Greek translations have Greek words and that doesn't mean Jesus used those exact words.
 
This is utter bullshit. Why in the hell would the Roman government create a story to pacify the poor and then feed the people who believed it to Lions?

This article is designed to incite "poor people" and get some publicity. That is all.

That's the beauty of the theory, the Romans fed Christians to lions before the Romans invented Christianity so...... no the Romans didn't feed Christians to the lions????
 
I still don't see you're point; in Greek the word Hades is used. If you read the Aramaic text for the same verse it reads: 23"And suffering in Sheol, he lifted up his eyes from afar off and he saw Abraham, and Lazar in his bosom."

http://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/luke/16.htm

I mean you don't have to accept the Bible as the truth, but at least understand that Greek translations have Greek words and that doesn't mean Jesus used those exact words.
The parable was to prove that Jesus had used the word hades. The other verse referred to 2(I suppose 3 if you wanted to be anal) places of the dead. If one was Sheol what was the other one?

I feel like the Hades thing is a copout. I think it would be strange that any Greek speaker would be unaware of the connotations of the word Hades(it refers to BOTH the god and the place). I'm not surprised however since that religion is a half-assed pastiche of other belief systems anyway.
 
That's the beauty of the theory, the Romans fed Christians to lions before the Romans invented Christianity so...... no the Romans didn't feed Christians to the lions????

What the fuck are you on about? Rome did persecute Christians in an attempt to enforce its traditional religion. Why do you need to create a religion to "control the poor" when you already have one?
 
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Beauty and goodness are meaningless in a nihilistic world. You enjoy it but ultimately it is all meaningless.

The better choice is up to the individual. Better is a functional term, what is better is up to what each person's preference, nature, needs, etc.

At times when I think about meaning I can't help but think it is an illusion, that there is no meaning in the world. We do not experience meaning, what we experience is the verbal/phonetic expressions coinciding with something in our brains, thoughts, which then produce a sense of understanding or meaningfulness. Language is just a means to externalise thought. We can think even if we had no language. I think it is the sensation of understanding and meaningfulness that keeps us going. Some can keep going even if they reject meaning. So it is up to everyone.

Your post is meaningless garbage. Just some bs rumbling by a guy in a persistent vegetative state.
 
I must say, it's hard for me to believe that English is your second language, you're Andalucian correct?
Yes.

Your post is meaningless garbage. Just some bs rumbling by a guy in a persistent vegetative state.
This is the problem. We live in a naturalistic world where physicalsim is the case, some sort of realisation or supervenience physicalism, but we also have thoughts that are about things and we have sensations of meaningfulness. Meaning has to be physically realised or something. Or there is no meaning in reality but a sensation which we call meaning.
 
The West has made weakness a rallying cry. Christianity is tolerant and cares for the poor. The liberal tolerance in Europe is totally a product of Christian values. Merkel is a good christian.

s-l300.jpg

More likely a product of over a century of Marxist influence. Historically, liberalism and tolerance aren't exactly hallmarks of christianity.
 
And Nietzsche didn't hate Christianity because of Genesis, as I was trying to explain to these fools, but because it was WEAK.

You know for such weak people, it sure does seem that Europe and the US, have global domination at the moment.

Like always, look to south park for life's great truths. Far superior to Nietzsche.


 
LOL at @JonesBones trolling hard

Edit with sprinklings of the truth
 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-controversial-biblical-scholar-8870879.html


This is the identical set of conditions present today with Christians today.

"Outlining his ideas in a blog posting on his website Mr Atwill writes: "Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of mind control to produce slaves that believed God decreed their slavery.

Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history
"

I am not against religion, but it is clear attending catholic mass that one of the main message that comes out is to " conform to the world and find consolation in the world of god".

Yes, Christians tend to be sheeps.
 
Where do you think the money for cathedrals came from? Are you not familiar with the concept of serfdom?
Firstly, serfdom was going to exist, whether or not cathedrals were built.

Secondly, cathedrals were funded by bishops who received some financial support from secular rulers, but that was not the sole, or in most cases, the primary source of funding.

Several conclusions emerge from his study. One is that construction projects were never funded by any single source, or even a handful of them. The bishops and cathedral chapters responsible for paying the bills drew on every imaginable source of funds they could identify. The list includes gifts from founding bishops and cathedral chapters responsible for paying the bills; initiation fees charged canons for becoming chapter members; fines levied [End Page 769] against them for violating chapter rules; gifts from popes, kings, and other secular rulers; tithes levied against parish churches within the jurisdiction of the bishopric in question; sales of indulgences; gifts given by pilgrims visiting the shrines of saints housed by the cathedral; profits from fairs held in connection with major feast days; loans; and other sundry sources of income.
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/455088/pdf


What were those benefits in the middle ages?
Judging from the enthusiasm for and popularity of these projects, there were very real benefits, such as feeling that life had a purpose of meaning infinitely greater than yourself but to which you were most intimately connected. The entire community was involved in and contributing to the central creative activity of the culture. You don't think that has benefits?

The building of monumental cathedrals in the middle ages was a reflection of faith and the channel for much of the creative energy of medieval European society.

Although cathedral building was driven by religious figures or institutions, it was often a community effort. From the mid-twelfth century, the Church started granting indulgences (forgiveness of sins) to those who would help to build a church or cathedral, and therefore, rather than going on crusades, which had been a popular means of absolving sins in the late eleventh century, people dedicated more effort to the construction of houses of God instead.

There was always a faction among the pious that disapproved of excessive spending on the construction and decoration of lavish religious buildings, but these were a minority, and the dominant feeling was one of great enthusiasm, ambition, and a desire to excel in this quest to construct magnificent buildings reflecting God's glory.

As cathedrals took decades, and often even centuries to complete, few people who worked on them expected to see them finished during their lifetimes. Being involved in the construction of a cathedral, even as the building patron, required a willingness to be part of a process that was larger than oneself.
https://www.durhamworldheritagesite.com/architecture/cathedral/construction
 
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The parable was to prove that Jesus had used the word hades. The other verse referred to 2(I suppose 3 if you wanted to be anal) places of the dead. If one was Sheol what was the other one?

I feel like the Hades thing is a copout. I think it would be strange that any Greek speaker would be unaware of the connotations of the word Hades(it refers to BOTH the god and the place). I'm not surprised however since that religion is a half-assed pastiche of other belief systems anyway.

You can' be this dense. Jesus didn' speak Greek and didn't say Hades.

And the other word you're wondering about that he used is abadon.
 
What the fuck are you on about? Rome did persecute Christians in an attempt to enforce its traditional religion. Why do you need to create a religion to "control the poor" when you already have one?

It's a joke mocking the theory. Nero persecute Christians, but this guy' theory is that the Romans invented Christianity about 30 yrs after they were already being persecuted.
 
Yes.

This is the problem. We live in a naturalistic world where physicalsim is the case,

Well I disagree. I don’t think it’s the case at all.

But you are determined to think this way and this conversation is pointless ;)
 
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